I am Christian and I like Beer...

My personal view is that moderate alcohol use is a blessing from God. Much like the beauty of the mountains, the ocean, good food etc. My doctors tell me to take a drink or two a night for my heart. From what I read, studies show that those that engage in moderate use have less health and anxiety issues overall, are more socially engaged etc. Also, those families that engage in moderate alcohol use have less binge drinking among their kids etc. Unless of course one has a problem with alcohol addiction, or just doesn't like the taste or effects. I find nothing in scriptures that say it's wrong in moderate use.

I find some of the posts on both sides of this discussion to be constructive and discussed in a spirit of love. I find other posts on both sides to be haughty, prideful and judgmental.

svm9 said:

My personal view is that moderate alcohol use is a blessing from God. Much like the beauty of the mountains, the ocean, good food etc. My doctors tell me to take a drink or two a night for my heart. From what I read, studies show that those that engage in moderate use have less health and anxiety issues overall, are more socially engaged etc. Also, those families that engage in moderate alcohol use have less binge drinking among their kids etc. Unless of course one has a problem with alcohol addiction, or just doesn't like the taste or effects. I find nothing in scriptures that say it's wrong in moderate use.

I find some of the posts on both sides of this discussion to be constructive and discussed in a spirit of love. I find other posts on both sides to be haughty, prideful and judgmental.

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I generally agree with you, but would modify from your position as follows. For some, one drink is too many; for others, two or more drinks are acceptable. It depends on how your system and how your mental facilities are impaired, if at all. I personally never, ever drive after I drink a beer. I nearly always have just one, that's really all I ever feel like. I do have a hankering for a strawberry margarita at On the Border, or maybe two, so I would definitely have my wife drive. I wasn't always like this. Being a Christian has made me more responsible.

Zaac said:

So what about alcohol? How does drinking alcohol aid the Christian in seeking the good of many and not his own good?

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Gal 5:1 - For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery

Noah was a drunk, and he was chosen to be the survivor of mankind.

Sin means to 'miss the point'. What comes form drinking results in 'evil'.

But that doesn't mean that God does not frown upon alcohol.

Proverbs 23:31
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.


Buying alcohol is a sin, because you are supporting it's production to the masses who commit suicide, murder, adultery, and domestic abuse.

And being drunk is a sin. The Bible doesn't say Noah was perfect.

Sum1sGruj said:

Noah was a drunk, and he was chosen to be the survivor of mankind.

Sin means to 'miss the point'. What comes form drinking results in 'evil'.

But that doesn't mean that God does not frown upon alcohol.

Proverbs 23:31
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

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Hey now lets not forget about context!
Prov 23
20 - Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat,
21 - for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.
30 - Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine.
31 - Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.
32 - In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

What is the context? Those who indulge to excess. Lets make sure we dont read things into the passage that aren't there. Rather, here are some verses which show us that wine is a blessing from God:

Genesis 27:28 - May God give you of heaven's dew and of earth's richness-- an abundance of grain and new wine.
Genesis 27:37 - Isaac answered Esau, "I have made him lord over you and have made all his relatives his servants, and I have sustained him with grain and new wine. So what can I possibly do for you, my son?"
Genesis 49:11,12 - "He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. [sup]12[/sup]His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk." - this is a reference to the Messiah!
Deuteronomy 7:13 - He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land--your grain, new wine and oil--the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you.
Deuteronomy 11:14 - then I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and oil.
Deuteronomy 33:28 - So Israel will live in safety alone; Jacob's spring is secure in a land of grain and new wine, where the heavens drop dew.
Judges 9:13 - "But the vine answered, `Should I give up my wine, which cheers both gods and men, to hold sway over the trees?'
Psalm 104:15 - wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.
Proverbs 3:10 - then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 - Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.
Amos 9:14 - I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit.

Buying alcohol is a sin, because you are supporting it's production to the masses who commit suicide, murder, adultery, and domestic abuse.

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Have you fully thought through your line of logic? Just because others can't use a commodity responsibly in no way prohibits me from purchasing it and using it responsibly. Consider how many people these days are morbidly obese? Does that mean we are to stop buying food because we are supporting it's production to the masses who commit gluttony?

However, as others have already said, if my weaker brother is to stumble because I drink, then I will abstain. It's been a many years since this had to be the case thankfully

And being drunk is a sin. The Bible doesn't say Noah was perfect.

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Absolutely, but lets not confuse sobriety with abstinence.

Fijian - good info.

jcp988 said:

I'm a Christian, and have been my whole life. I love Jesus more then anything, and I'm studying in order to go into ministry to show others the love that He has for them.

What I am tired of is some Christians can't get over the fact that it's okay to have an occasional beer! Now I'm not condoning getting wasted, that's a different issue, but what's wrong with having a beer or two with a friend? How have we become so legalistic in our approach that we think any form of alcohol is wrong. I'm pretty sure its the abuse of alcohol that is wrong, not just consumption.

I get that the abuse of alcohol is a very ugly thing, I have watch it destroy many lives. But so is the abuse of anything else! Take sex for example, when we abuse sex we destroy and hurt so much! But does that mean we shouldn't do it anymore? No! Sex is good when used right. If we use beer right, really its not a bad thing.

I have been socially drinking since I became of age and never once have I done something I have regretted. It has never gotten in the way of my walk with God or my ministry to the church. But then why is that a lot of Christians are so critical of it?

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The Bible doesn't condemn occasional drinking. As long as you are moderate about it and don't binge or become an alcoholic, then it is fine. The Bible refers to heavy drinkers as 'drunkards', and warns that drunkenness can be problematic.

Sex unfortunately is sinful outside of marriage. There's no real way out of that. But it is for good reason- from God's point of view, at the grand scale, sex before marriage causes gigantic issues in society.

But back to alcohol, not all Christians are against it. In fact, most of them aren't. Some just spend too much time laboring under condemning every little thing they see.

Alcohol in moderation is ok, but each person has the free will to decide what is best for them. I know some denominations completely abstain from alcohol, personally I only have alcohol (Lord Jesus' Blood) at the Lords Supper during Sunday Service, otherwise I don't drink alcohol at all.

At the end of the day it is a personal choice. But it is always supposed to be enjoyed and not abused, as that will lead us into great sin with temptations.

jcp988 said:

What I am tired of is some Christians can't get over the fact that it's okay to have an occasional beer! Now I'm not condoning getting wasted, that's a different issue, but what's wrong with having a beer or two with a friend? How have we become so legalistic in our approach that we think any form of alcohol is wrong. I'm pretty sure its the abuse of alcohol that is wrong, not just consumption.

But then why is that a lot of Christians are so critical of it?

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I agree with you, there's nothing wrong in having a drink or two with friends. I've never been drunk myself, yet I drink. When I was an undergrand, I was once invited to a beer and bible study group. I didn't go, but that church obviously didn't have an issue with it. Alcohol is served at all of the church dinners at my parish. Nobody gets wasted.

The reason why people are critical of alcohol is an aftereffect of Prohibition. It became entwined with religion to some people. Consequently, America has become a place where a lot of people don't understand that one doesn't have to be on either the tee-totaler or the alcoholic extremes. There is a responsible middle ground that we can take.

I'm a christian and I like beer too! I don't think beer in itself is a problem but drunkenness would be the worry.

Sorry for the scripture explosion but since apparently it's the only real source of information out there you've got to use what tools will work. Much like circumcision (although if Timothy got circumcised to reach the Jews how would they have known unless they asked, and why did they ask?!).

Psalm 104:14-15 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate--bringing forth food from the earth:wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart.

God made wine along with a whole bunch of other good things.

Proverbs 23:29-35 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes?
Those who linger over wine, who go to sample bowls of mixed wine.
Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly!
In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper.
Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things.
You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging.
"They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt! They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"

The man who wrote the Proverbs is being very candid about what happens when you linger over your alcohol, in other words, when you're sitting at the bar ordering drink after drink after drink. He states quite clearly it can kill, and his descriptions of being drunk are quite accurate. But what isn't said is to stay away from alcohol. The verse is simply saying those who linger over alcohol, those who wake up just to find another drink, who live for it are the ones with the sorrows, bruises and bloodshot eyes (do you think sorrow is another word for headache?) I like the bit about not mixing your drinks. They knew a thing or two them old dead dudes.

Joel 2:24
The threshing floors will be filled with grain; the vats will overflow with new wine and oil.

Joel 2:19
The Lord will reply to them: "I am sending you grain, new wine and oil, enough to satisfy you fully; never again will I make you an object of scorn to the nations.

Deuteronomy 7:13
He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land--your grain, new wine and oil--the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you.

In the Old Testament wine was considered a blessing as well as a curse. You'll find alot of warnings about the misuse of alcohol, in fact more warnings against it than for it, and for good reason. It's an addictive substance that causes alot of issues. However, if it was evil, and to be avoided entirely, it would've always been described as something you should flee from (like you would witchcraft or the worship of a pagan god), as opposed to a blessing. Evil things were never considered a blessing in the Old Testament.

Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Ecclesiastes 10:17
Blessed are you, O land whose king is of noble birth and whose princes eat at a proper time--for strength and not for drunkenness.

1 Timothy 3:8
Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.

Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do.

So I found a couple of verses about getting drunk and not indulging. It's pretty well agreed across both Testaments that a wise ruler is one who does not crave alcohol, which is why Paul exhorts leaders in his church plants not to drink to excess. Again I find the candid approach the Bible takes to alcohol kind of amusing because if there's one thing the authors of the Bible pegged it was alcohol consumption.

Considering the fact that the Bible describes wine as a blessing, that vats overflowed with wine when God was pleased with his people I don't understand why some Christians think it's the devil in liquid form. I mean it's described as a blessing, but it is the over consumption of such that causes the issues, as does the over consumption of alot of things.

Here's an analogy: I love water. I like the taste, the clarity of it, how it has a different taste wherever you go. I love swimming in it, and hot showers after a cold day at sword class are Gods gift to my aching muscles and bruises. The only difference between a glass of water and a glass (note single) of wine (or beer or yes even a vodka and cranberry) is the color, and the fact that I can survive just fine without alcohol.
Yet how many people a year are killed by an overabundance of water all over the world? How many people drink a glass of water in a day and end up with a disease that dehydrates them to death (irony thy name is dystentery)? In the past few years there have been multiple deaths in children and athletic types because they were either forced to consume, or self emposed the consumption of too much water, and like I stated it killed them due to the chemical imbalance it caused in their body.

Sorry for the explosion of text. It's my day off and I'm feeling lazy, but I'll leave with one more thought:


Romans 14. The whole chapter

This is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible because it exemplifies how much freedom is now available in Christ. If you're going to drink do it without feeling guilty, don't over do it, and don't do it in front of a sibling who struggles with addiction. Also if you're not going to consume it don't automatically condemn your partaking brother as a lush, but let him enjoy his cold one/wine/vodkacran, just as long as he doesn't take it overboard.

Also I'm not a proponent of the 'Jesus only drank thick grape juice' theory. I'm sorry, but eventually that grape juice turned into wine, and considering the fact that they tended to consume every resource they could get their hands on I don't think they threw the thick grape juice out after it went bad. Chances are "new wine" was something like champagne as opposed to a Merlot or Cabernet. Still potent, just a little more bubbly.


Final verdict: pour yourself some alcohol and enjoy it as the gift God intended it to be, just don't over indulge.

jcp988 said:

I'm a Christian, and have been my whole life. I love Jesus more then anything, and I'm studying in order to go into ministry to show others the love that He has for them.

What I am tired of is some Christians can't get over the fact that it's okay to have an occasional beer! Now I'm not condoning getting wasted, that's a different issue, but what's wrong with having a beer or two with a friend? How have we become so legalistic in our approach that we think any form of alcohol is wrong. I'm pretty sure its the abuse of alcohol that is wrong, not just consumption.

I get that the abuse of alcohol is a very ugly thing, I have watch it destroy many lives. But so is the abuse of anything else! Take sex for example, when we abuse sex we destroy and hurt so much! But does that mean we shouldn't do it anymore? No! Sex is good when used right. If we use beer right, really its not a bad thing.

I have been socially drinking since I became of age and never once have I done something I have regretted. It has never gotten in the way of my walk with God or my ministry to the church. But then why is that a lot of Christians are so critical of it?

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Scripture does not forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”

Jesus changed water into wine. Jesus drank wine (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented containing alcohol.It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not tainted by sin.