Synoptic Gospels - Are they Graceless???

trident343 said:

Would I be wrong to say that the Gospel of Christ crucified and Sola Fide is either absent or not clearly found in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, And Luke???

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Yep. The Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, the Pharisee & Tax Collector, the Workers in the Field all point directly to the absence of works on the part of the one redeemed.

I think the basic concept that Jesus is pointing the ancient world to in 0's AD, is not the same basic concept that the Roman Catholic Church fell from in the 1400's AD. To me the basic concept Jesus is pointing to is from-the-heart, spiritual redemption. The problem in the 1400's could be characterized by that, but it would be a mistake to say Rome flouted all of that. Rome simply flouted the extent of our corruption, claiming incorruption for itself as it went along.

trident343 said:

It seems like Jesus preached a lot of "Do" and be saved.

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Without an emphasis on the heart Judaism had become hypocritical. Pagan religion couldn't even be called hypocritical, though: it had lost all semblance of internal devotion.

trident343 said:

It also seems that The Gospel of the Kingdom is not the Gospel of Christ crucified either, but simply a declaration that the Kingdom of God was soon to arrive.

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The Resurrection is the New Creation -- soon to arrive.

trident343 said:

The best I could do to reconcile this to the Gospel of Christ crucified is to suggest that the Gospel of the kingdom did not have redemptive power in itself, but pointed the way and the need to the Gospel of Grace.

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A lot of the points that Jesus could readily make with the Jewish people were about this, yes. Put it this way -- if you're out in the hinterlands between a Rome squelching claims to messiahship, and a Judaism claiming your works save you, and you want people drawn to a different Caesar and a different salvation -- what do you preach?

So in a way yes, Jesus' preaching was preparatory, but consistent. Jesus' Resurrection was the trigger point for the Kingdom of God.

trident343 said:

So was the preaching of Jesus through out the Synoptics. The sermon on the mount should of stripped any self-righteousness or worthiness from anybody who thinks they could merit salvation for themselves.

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But at the end, Jesus says, "Put this into practice or you'll be swept away." That is, He's saying you need to treat -- and continue treating -- Law as higher, spiritual; you as needing spiritual perfection; and your will needing it and representing it as right -- even though you're not getting there on your own power.

trident343 said:

Not only was it not good enough to not commit the physical act of adultery, but even to lust after a woman was sin.

Same with murder. Not only was not committing the physical act murder, but also he act of having hatred toward anybody.

Matthew 5:29-30

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Can anybody read the Gospel of grace out if those verses?

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Jesus got capital punishment, was essentially sent to the ancient electric chair for what He did. Neglecting the salvation implications -- for I do believe in sola fide -- why would Jesus' disciples avoid that same level of commitment to Jesus? I mean, Jesus rose from the dead and promised His disciples the same. It's hard to argue that we don't know where this is going.

trident343 said:

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now how's that for a commandment? Isnt that commandment the antithesis of human ability? If I had to make a law that absolutely nobody could keep, I don't think I could create one more efficacious than that.

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The Absolute reality of God's goodness would demand this, right? And yes, it underscores human inability by its very statement. But what's scarier is what it says in context -- "Put it into practice". Take this idea, and get it working in your own life.

T'me the only way that can work in Jesus' thinking is if He's crying out silently through the whole thing -- "You need God for this! Be reconciled to God!"

trident343 said:

Would I be wrong to say that the Gospel of Christ crucified and Sola Fide is either absent or not clearly found in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, And Luke???

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The gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16-17 KJV) is NOT found in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. It was a mystery. For had they known it, they never would have crucified the Lord of glory.


1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The misconception is that Christ was telling the corrupt sons of adam to follow his perfect foot steps to gain salvation, the cross is the place He ended up and died not to heal adams sons but to put them to death, offering a new power the seed of his faith that enables the saint to have a secure hope, and insurance that it will blossoms into a new creature, and creation at resurrection.

The cross is the starting place for mans reconciliation not before, Christ righteousness broke the laws curse for Israel and freed all the sons of Adam from deaths eternal chains in due time by his grace ye are saved through faith and not of yourself its the gift of God.

trident343 said:

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Can anybody read the Gospel of grace out if those verses?

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That would be a pretty good trick, since the one who would be taught, by the crucified and risen Lord, to present the Grace Gospel was himself still amenable to the Kingdom Gospel.

While salvation (justification) has always been through the human exercise of faith and by God's grace, that upon which man places his faith has changed with the change of God's dispensations.

As you point out, man was never able to achieve perfection through keeping the Law. Only our Savior was able to do that and thereby provide His perfect righteousness for each of us, by imputation, when we believe...in this dispensation...the Grace Gospel (First Corinthians 15:3,4)

For Nicodemus to be born again, he was required to believe the Kingdom Gospel; that Jesus Christ...the Man to whom he was speaking...was the Messiah and that He was prepared to establish His earthly Kingdom.

So, there we have it: Two very different salvation messages, or Gospels. The world had to await the salvation of Saul (Paul) in Acts 9, who, after his schooling by the risen Christ, presented a gospel message sufficiently unique for Paul to refer to it as "his" gospel, that one could immediately be saved by believing that Christ died bearing God's punishment for that one's sins and that He rose from the dead. That's it! No more!

You could, then, have included John and a portion of Acts.

trident343 said:

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Now how's that for a commandment? Isnt that commandment the antithesis of human ability? If I had to make a law that absolutely nobody could keep, I don't think I could create one more efficacious than that.

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Gotta remember what comes right before that line:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.(Matt 5)

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We are to love our enemies because God loves His enemies.

And in this parable:

“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt."

“The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go."

“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded."

“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’
“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened."

“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed."

“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matt 18)

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We are to forgive because we are forgiven by God.

It's always God's work first, then us joining in. We get grace, then we give it. We are forgiven, so we forgive. We are loved, and so we love.

And what is love? "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." If we believe that we have been loved by God in such a manner, then we simply have no choice but to go and do likewise.

God bless

I am happy to agree with Biblewriter and seeingeyes. The Gospels are filled with grace as is the entire Bible. That is because the one God of both the Old and New Testaments is, always has been, and always will be the God of grace. Check out 2 Chronicles 30:1-20 for one of my favorite passages about grace in the Old Testament. The punchline is in verse 20.

mark273 said:

I am happy to agree with Biblewriter and seeingeyes. The Gospels are filled with grace as is the entire Bible. That is because the one God of both the Old and New Testaments is, always has been, and always will be the God of grace. Check out 2 Chronicles 30:1-20 for one of my favorite passages about grace in the Old Testament. The punchline is in verse 20.

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Yes, grace has always been a part of that which we experience under a loving God. My favorite OT story...of grace...was that of Mephibosheth. Perhaps that is because I was born with a problem with my feet.

It's confusing when we refer to the gospel for this dispensation as "The Gospel of the Grace of God," but it is Biblical (Acts 20:24) and the title helps to distinguish it from "The Gospel of the Kingdom." The two gospels are recognized in Galatians 2:7KJV.

BillyShope said:

It's confusing when we refer to the gospel for this dispensation as "The Gospel of the Grace of God," but it is Biblical (Acts 20:24) and the title helps to distinguish it from "The Gospel of the Kingdom." The two gospels are recognized in Galatians 2:7KJV.

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There is no warrant, especially in the light of the entire book of Galatians, for saying that today there are two different gospels that should be preached. A big part of your problem is that it is reductionistic.

When I write a post expressing my disagreement with someone, I try to point out what I think they are doing wrong and the evidence for what I am saying. I try to avoid personal insults, if for no other reason than that I don't really know the people with whom I ma speaking. But I try to give specific evidence for what I say because I believe that both they and I are helped by the discussion.

I find your comment unhelpful and insulting. You give me no reason or evidence for your disagreement, just an insult. Obviously I can read, as I read your post and am now responding to it. I still say that Paul in the book of Galatians is talking about one gospel. I looked at several commentaries as well as the Greek text, and there is no warrant for saying that according to Galatians 2:7 there are two different gospels. According to chapter one there is a false gospel, which is really no gospel at all, and the true gospel. But I have no interest in drive by insults that don't actually participate in the discussion.

mark273 said:

There is no warrant, especially in the light of the entire book of Galatians, for saying that today there are two different gospels that should be preached. A big part of your problem is that it is reductionistic.

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Today, there is but one gospel: Paul's gospel, as given him by the ascended Christ. In the previous dispensation, there was but one gospel: That which was delivered by Christ before the cross (compare John 4:22 with Colossians 3:11). Acts describes that period of transition. Galatians describes the problems encountered as individuals attempted to remove believers from the Grace Gospel and bring them back to the Kingdom Gospel. Paul made it clear that, by that time, such an attempt was anathema to the believers of His gospel.

Today, there are yet pastors who attempt to bring their congregations back under those rules followed by the Jews. You can usually recognize them by the way they base their sermons on the four Gospels. Of course, that which is found in the Gospels is valuable for us (Second Timothy 3:16), but not to the neglect of that which was written by the Apostle to the Gentiles (Romans through Philemon). To do so is to mix Law with Grace for those who hear, whether it is intentional or not. This is yet anathema.

Acts 24:44-47 says this:

"44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Jesus here says that the basic facts that Paul listed in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 were given in the Old Testament.

Although I was raised being taught that Jesus offered the sit-down-right-then-on-the-throne- gospel to the Jews until it was rejected, and then Jesus turned to plan B, the more I have studied and taught the book of Matthew, the more I am convinced that that is wrong. There simply is no evidence that Jesus' basic message changed. Before Matthew 12, Jesus is not talking about conquest, he is talking about faith and trusting God in the midst of suffering. Although some details in the way it is stated have changed, the Gospel that Jesus taught is fundamentally the same Gospel of grace that we preach today. God sent his son to sacrifice himself, so that all who believe and turn to him may be saved.

Move on to Luke, chapter 18, where Christ tells the disciples how He will be put to death and shall rise again (verses 31 through 33), but, in verse 34, it is said that "...they understood none of these things...."

Yes, there is nothing new in First Corinthians 15:3&4, but the message delivered by the risen Christ is definitely new, for, until Paul's gospel, there was no hint that one could be saved by merely believing and trusting in these facts.

This is getting confusing because I am conversing with you on two different threads that have a roughly overlapping theme. I accidently put this on the other one about repentance:

You have not answered the question I raised in post #27 (on the "repentance for Gentiles" thread) about the gospel of John. Are you saying that the verses in John about believing in Jesus, like John 3:16 do not refer to the Gospel that we should be preaching today, Paul's gospel of grace?

Lewis Sperry Chafer (who has had at least a little influence in dispensational thought) said this about John 3:16:

This it is revealed that in this incomparable text is enfolded [sic] at least nine of the great doctrines of Soteriology, namely, infinite love, infinite sacrifice for sinners, sovereign election, sovereign grace, unlimited redemption, salvation a work of God, salvation from perdition, eternal security, and salvation by grace through faith alone.
What did he leave out? Sounds like the gospel of grace to me, in the gospels, where you said it could not be.

And why did you move on to Luke 18 and give no response to Luke 24:44-47 where the things you said should not be there are there? And why does the fact that "no one understood these things" effect whether or not they were proclaimed?

mark273 said:

This is getting confusing because I am conversing with you on two different threads that have a roughly overlapping theme. I accidently put this on the other one about repentance:

You have not answered the question I raised in post #27 (on the "repentance for Gentiles" thread) about the gospel of John. Are you saying that the verses in John about believing in Jesus, like John 3:16 do not refer to the Gospel that we should be preaching today, Paul's gospel of grace?

Lewis Sperry Chafer (who has had at least a little influence in dispensational thought) said this about John 3:16:

This it is revealed that in this incomparable text is enfolded [sic] at least nine of the great doctrines of Soteriology, namely, infinite love, infinite sacrifice for sinners, sovereign election, sovereign grace, unlimited redemption, salvation a work of God, salvation from perdition, eternal security, and salvation by grace through faith alone.
What did he leave out? Sounds like the gospel of grace to me, in the gospels, where you said it could not be.

And why did you move on to Luke 18 and give no response to Luke 24:44-47 where the things you said should not be there are there? And why does the fact that "no one understood these things" effect whether or not they were proclaimed?

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I've posted my response on the other thread. If I decide to continue this conversation, it will be there.

mark273 said:

Acts 24:44-47 says this:

"44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Jesus here says that the basic facts that Paul listed in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 were given in the Old Testament.

Although I was raised being taught that Jesus offered the sit-down-right-then-on-the-throne- gospel to the Jews until it was rejected, and then Jesus turned to plan B, the more I have studied and taught the book of Matthew, the more I am convinced that that is wrong. There simply is no evidence that Jesus' basic message changed. Before Matthew 12, Jesus is not talking about conquest, he is talking about faith and trusting God in the midst of suffering. Although some details in the way it is stated have changed, the Gospel that Jesus taught is fundamentally the same Gospel of grace that we preach today. God sent his son to sacrifice himself, so that all who believe and turn to him may be saved.

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You are reading later revelation into that passage in Luke 24.

What He is referring to is Luke 1 - 4. This [Luke 1 -4] is exactly what they understand Him to be referring to in Acts 1, and this is excatly what Peter preaches in Acts 3 to Israel. The very same message he later declares in 2 Peter has been put on hold per Paul. See also Romans 11:25-27.

Israel's one day restored kingdom is to be a kingdom of Priests, Ex. 19; Is. 60, 61, 66 who, in turn becomes a light unto the Gentiles.

Isaiah 2:

1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.​

5. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

They were told in Matthew 10 they would not make it past the cities of Israel with said gospel until His return, just as Matthew 24 reiterates.

You are confusing the real Jehovah's Witnesses - one day restored Israel - with the Body of Christ.

Isaiah 43:

10. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

You would do well to study out who they went to in Acts 1-7 - Israel ONLY.

And with good reason. The Lord said in Mark 8 that the children - Israel - had to first be filled before the blessings could flow to the Gentiles.

Per the Lord later - through Paul - that was put on hold and a new Apostle - of the Gentiles - was sent out.

That is not some plan B.

Rather, it was God's plan all along, given His foreknowledge, that Israel would reject Him, as well as The Son, and then the Spirit's ministry, to temporarily set Israel aside and begin to unveil His New Creature plan by which He will deal with restoring back unto Himself that wickedness in high places that the Kingdom Prayer, "on Earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN" relies on, 1 Cor. 2; Rom 11; Eph. 1....

Said hign places are presently under the dominion of who - the prince of the power of the air, Eph. 2, and 6.

Anyway, read Luke 24 - both accounts there of their exchange with the Lord, in light of Luke 1 - 4.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16​

trident343 said:

Would I be wrong to say that the Gospel of Christ crucified and Sola Fide is either absent or not clearly found in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, And Luke???

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You are right but that does not mean that people cannot be saved by reading those books. John wrote the following and what he said can be said about the Synoptic Gospels:
In the book of Matthew we read:
In what way was Peter blessed for believing that fact concerning the identity of the Lord Jesus Christ?
In His grace,

Jerry

Romans 10:8-10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul's gospel that he preached.

mark273 said:

Romans 10:8-10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Paul's gospel that he preached.

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You're off in your reading of that - Romans 9-11 is about what happened between Israel and God [and that, in light of "this mystery" God had kept hid in Himself] that the Gentiles are now being called without Israel being re-born as a redeemed nation first.

Towards that, the above passage you have cited, declares, not Paul's gospel, but the clear opportuniy Israel had had through the witness of those "beautiful feet" God had sent them. Paul is not describing himself.

He is describing a gospel which goes back to the righteousness of God which was of the Law:

15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!​

16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

In short, he is referring to how Israel had all along responded to its prophets, including the Little Flock's witness in early Acts.

Not in faith, but in disobedience - so far gone that when the Lord showed up, they were found wanting in their faith; unable to believe on Him Who was the very basis of "the gospel of peace."

This is why Paul quotes Isaiah - when Isaiah prophesied the above, Israel failed to believe his report - even John the Baptist wavered for a moment and sent his disciples to ask the Lord if he was the One Whom Isaiah had spoken of:

Isaiah 9:

6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
8. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
9. And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in the pride and stoutness of heart,
10. The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

Isaiah 61:
​

1. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2. To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3. To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Matthew 11:
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1. And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
2. Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3. And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4. Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.​

6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Paul is dealing with what happened between Israel and the prophesied order of things that God is now dealing with Gentiles wit,out Israel, albeit temporarily, Rom. 11:25-27.

Romans 9:

30. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.​

32. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33. As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

Romans 10:

1.​

2. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3. For the​

7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.​

Note the issue there - Israel stumbled at that stumbling Stone - first, questioning whether he had been the Christ [Mathhew through John] when He was in their midst. Then, Israel fell [early Acts], refusing to believe the report of those the Lord sent them - as to whether He had risen from the dead. Israel's response should have been, first, "yes, You are the Christ" [Matthew through John], and, later, in Acts, "yes, the Spirit is speaking through these your disciples [early Acts per Luke 24"48's "and ye are witnesses of these things]- He has risen from the dead."

Instead, it was Romans 10:21's "All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

Gainsaying - there is that speaking against the Holy Spirit once more referenced.

You have to get this gainsaying they fell because of out of the way or you will keep reading your triditon into these things. At the very least, consider things in that light, Acts 17:11.

Respectfully,

Danoh
Eph. 4:16