Explaining Lutheranism to a Baptist Friend

Lprdgecko · Aug 27, 2012

I feel like I've been asking a lot of questions lately, but here comes another

My friend and I were talking today and the conversation ended up with her expressing curiosity about the Lutheran church. She was raised in a Baptist church and attends a huge Baptist church in town, one with a "rock band" front and center.

We talked about a few different things, and I tried my best to answer her questions correctly, though I told her that I'm definitely not the person who could give her the "best" or most thorough answers like she would get if she were to talk to a pastor. Though I remembered that I have a copy of Lutheranism 101, so on the questions that I had trouble answering, I found the section in the book and she read about it there.

One thing that she could not understand (nor did she even realize that Lutherans believe it or what the terminology meant) was the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper. I tried explaining how "is means is" and that we believe Christ's body and blood are in, with, and under the bread and wine, but I lost her there. I found a section in Lutheranism 101 about it and she was still confused. She said that she understands that we believe it because the Bible says it is so, but just didn't understand why or how it happens.

Another thing she commented on was regarding confession & absolution. She said something like, "Why do you have to say it to the pastor, why can't it just be between you and God?" I didn't really know how to answer that.

I invited her to come to church and/or Bible study with me sometime. Hopefully she will come some day.

Any tips on how to answer these questions if they come up in conversation again?

DaRev · Aug 27, 2012

Lprdgecko said:
One thing that she could not understand (nor did she even realize that Lutherans believe it or what the terminology meant) was the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper. I tried explaining how "is means is" and that we believe Christ's body and blood are in, with, and under the bread and wine, but I lost her there. I found a section in Lutheranism 101 about it and she was still confused. She said that she understands that we believe it because the Bible says it is so, but just didn't understand why or how it happens.

The "why" part is because Jesus gives it to us. He is the true Passover Lamb. He gives us the extent of the "why" that He has chosen to give in John chapter 6. As for the "how", He doesn't explain that, so we don't question it. His body and blood are present because He says they are. That's all He says, that's all we believe. We believe it because he says it, not because we can comprehend it. We don't understand how a virgin can conceive a child, but it happened and we believe it. We don't understand how someone can rise from the dead after three days, but it happened and we believe it. Does your friend need an explanation as to how these things occurred in order to believe them?

Another thing she commented on was regarding confession & absolution. She said something like, "Why do you have to say it to the pastor, why can't it just be between you and God?" I didn't really know how to answer that.

She's confusing Lutherans with Roman Catholics. Lutherans don't HAVE to confess to a pastor. The majority of the time it is between us and God. But there are times when our sins may especially trouble us and we need to be assured of Christ's forgiveness. It is comforting to be able to hear those words from one who is called by God to proclaim the Gospel and convey that forgiveness in the words of absolution. It's not an obligation, it's a blessing.

Lprdgecko · Aug 27, 2012

DaRev said:
The "why" part is because Jesus gives it to us. He is the true Passover Lamb. He gives us the extent of the "why" that He has chosen to give in John chapter 6. As for the "how", He doesn't explain that, so we don't question it. His body and blood are present because He says they are. That's all He says, that's all we believe. We believe it because he says it, not because we can comprehend it. We don't understand how a virgin can conceive a child, but it happened and we believe it. We don't understand how someone can rise from the dead after three days, but it happened and we believe it. Does your friend need an explanation as to how these things occurred in order to believe them?

She's confusing Lutherans with Roman Catholics. Lutherans don't HAVE to confess to a pastor. The majority of the time it is between us and God. But there are times when our sins may especially trouble us and we need to be assured of Christ's forgiveness. It is comforting to be able to hear those words from one who is called by God to proclaim the Gospel and convey that forgiveness in the words of absolution. It's not an obligation, it's a blessing.

Thank you for answering.

For the first part, no, I don't think she needs an explanation for the virgin birth, etc. to believe them. I think part of the problem is that the concept of Real Presence is so foreign to her that it threw her for a loop. I brought up the fact that the Trinity has no logical explanation, but we believe it anyway because it is revealed in the Bible. She agreed and understood what I was trying to say, but I think the "shock" of learning something completely different from how she was raised may have been preventing her from understanding that the bread and wine do NOT merely represent Jesus' body and blood.

Second part, that's basically what I tried telling her. I told her that we aren't like Catholics who are required to go to the priest every so often and confess to him, though we of course may go to private confession with our pastor if needed/desired. I tried explaning how it is done during the service. She seemed to think that we had to say specific sins out loud in front of everybody or something. I told her that, during the service, there is a time of silence where we reflect on our own personal sins and then we confess as a group that we have sinned, and then the pastor speaks forgiveness. I think that was the part she didn't understand. When I explained private confession to her (though I've never been to private confession, so I can't be 100% sure how it is done) she brought up the fact that it would be comforting to hear the forgiveness spoken to you. I suppose the same could be said for when it occurs during the service?

Thanks again for answering!

Tangible · Aug 27, 2012

I hate to be a one-trick pony here, but when I moved from Baptist to Lutheran Veith's Spirituality of the Cross was an invaluable help.

twin.spin · Aug 29, 2012

How about this from some Baptist friends that I have (combined staements)
Baptism is a symbol of the transformation that happens in the hearts of those who have asked Jesus into their heart.
If this is true:

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6

Then the only "one baptism" that would be necessary would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rebirth into the family of God.) Otherwise, there'd be two baptisms (worth mentioning here) and there isn't.

Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again....may we all be baptized in Christ.

1 Cor. 6 - not talking about water baptism, c.f. Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3 - saving from bad conscience, not sin... see context of verses 13-20; Mark 16 - assuming it's even a valid portion of Scripture, just look at the logic tree. The plethora of verses that don't require water baptism for salvation and use those to interpret Acts 2, rather than the other way around. Using 1 verse to interpret dozens of conflicting ones is just a bad hermeneutic.

Studeclunker · Sep 1, 2012

Don't feel too bad about your friend's confusion. Real Presence and Infant Baptism are the greatest stumbling blocks for the Protestants. That barrier has existed for five hundred years and isn't likely to go away any time soon. Human logic is inadequate to God's purposes and actions. It's like these people who insist that it isn't possible for God to have created everything in our Universe in six days. Once again, Human Logic running against God's inconprehensible abilities.

Good suggestion Tanj, Veith's book is excellent!

synger · Sep 5, 2012

My husband came from a Baptist background (I was Reformed). It took him a while to understand the difference between God doing to baptizing (adopting us) vs. us acting (being obedient). Our daughter was baptized at 4 years old.. old enough for him to feel somewhat confident that she understood some of it

Lprdgecko · Sep 6, 2012

synger said:
My husband came from a Baptist background (I was Reformed). It took him a while to understand the difference between God doing to baptizing (adopting us) vs. us acting (being obedient). Our daughter was baptized at 4 years old.. old enough for him to feel somewhat confident that she understood some of it

Yeah I never got a chance to even mention Baptism when we had this conversation (it was pretty late at night and we both needed to get to bed before classes the next morning.) I'm hoping the conversation comes up again some time. Maybe one of these days she'll decide to come to church with me. Her boyfriend's family has said they would come to our church a few times. They haven't yet, but maybe some day...

Thanks to everyone for your replies!

Moses Medina · Sep 12, 2012

Studeclunker said:
Don't feel too bad about your friend's confusion. Real Presence and Infant Baptism are the greatest stumbling blocks for the Protestants. That barrier has existed for five hundred years and isn't likely to go away any time soon. Human logic is inadequate to God's purposes and actions. It's like these people who insist that it isn't possible for God to have created everything in our Universe in six days. Once again, Human Logic running against God's inconprehensible abilities.

Good suggestion Tanj, Veith's book is excellent!

Hello and God bless. I'm switching from Assemblies of God/Pentecostal/Non-Denominational (Whatever it is that I was) to Lutheran. I'm going to accept it either way, but can you please explain why this is done? I was raised with believing that a person should be baptized as an adult to udnerstand whaty their decision was, and using Jesus as an example, being 30 years old.

Tangible · Sep 12, 2012

The short answer is that your former churches see baptism as law, something we do for God, and therefore place tons of restrictions on it. Lutherans have always viewed baptism as something God does for us and to us, as gospel not law, and since the saving gospel is offered freely to all, so should baptism be offered freely to all regardless of age or ability to understand cognitively.

Moses Medina · Sep 12, 2012

Tangible said:
The short answer is that your former churches see baptism as law, something we do for God, and therefore place tons of restrictions on it. Lutherans have always viewed baptism as something God does for us and to us, as gospel not law, and since the saving gospel is offered freely to all, so should baptism be offered freely to all regardless of age or ability to understand cognitively.

Would a person get baptized at a later date too or would it just be that one? For example, I got baptized in a non-denominational church. But have the inkling to do it agian just as a statement that I'm back after 6 years of walking away and stronger then ever through the grace of God.

Tangible · Sep 12, 2012

One Lord, one Baptism, one God and Father of all. As long as you were baptized in the name of the Triune God Lutherans do not rebaptize, since baptism is not something we do but something that God does to us.

Moses Medina · Sep 12, 2012

Ah okay, thank you for your answers and for being patient.

alexnbethmom · Sep 12, 2012

that's part of the Nicene Creed, actually - "I believe in one baptism for the remission of sins"....

again, baptism isn't something we do for God - it's something God does for us, and in us....thinking that you have to be an adult in order to make a "conscious decision" to be baptized, that is "decision theology" and Lutherans absolutely do not believe in that....

Moses Medina · Sep 12, 2012

Once again, I thank everyone for your answers, I know this wasn't my thread but thanks.

LilLamb219 · Sep 13, 2012

Since it's God at work at your baptism, He did it right the first time

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