This thread is PRIMARILY for Word/Faith members -- those going to a Word/Faith church or those who strongly agree with Word/Faith teachers and consider themselves part of this belief evern if they attend elsewhere. While I don't mind the thoughts of believers outside Word/Faith, many constructs to support this discussion will be based upon Word/Faith theology and doctrine; if you agree with us on these ideas, then welcome. This is not a debate about the constructs (whether Word/Faith is right), but rather an internal discussion of how such contruct can and should be applied in the life of a believer.
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There is another thread here, "Will God ever tell us to go to a doctor?" And there is much good advice there. As I read it I run across sentences and paragraphs that, while I don't find them offensively wrong, they seem to lead in an ill advised direction. So I took the words from those posts and I went and meditated on the subjects.
They brought my mind to other places, other verses and even discussions between my wife and I about healing and doctors and when, if ever, the two shall meet. What all this brought up in my soul was the question of timing and when do we know if the direction we should walk is to a doctor.
I'm gong to throw some ideas out, and in my method probably a lot of verses. I'd like to see a biblically based discussion on this subject, to try and show answer to what healing is, when it happens and when we can know that we need help.
Some of what I present here is my opinion based upon the scripture that I have found and studied over the years. I would appreciate if the answers coming back had scriptural backing, and were not simply "well, what I think...." Simply because what "we think" could get someone killed. Let's back this up with scripture, and see what the Word says.
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Here are some of the thoughts I meditated on. Remember (especially those of you who have formed a liking for ABlessedMan): I am not perfect, nor is my understanding of the bible complete. I can make mistakes, and this may be my biggest one!!
Healing. We know, as Word/Faith members, that healing is in the atonement. Jesus died on the cross not only for our sins, but for our healing and much, much more. He came to make us whole, to give us an abundant life.
When we look to the Bible there is no better healer than our Lord Jesus Christ. He went about teaching and healing many.
I've heard from many a great and popular teachers programs and sites "testimonies" about great healings. Let's generalize and say that someone had a growth on their body. In some of the stories, they would stand on faith and the growth would continue to grow for a while, then it would stop and then it would get smaller and finally either fall off or disappear. The healing would take anywhere from, let's say, a few months to many, many years.
"Hallelujah" is the cry from the choir.
But when I look at Jesus' ministry (or Paul's, etc.) I simply do not see healings that took that long.
(You mad at me yet?)
And this is a great set of verses to talk and preach on the importance of praising God and giving Him glory for your healing. After all, He is the one who heals no matter how the healing comes about: miracle, healing, doctors, medication. It was God anyway.
But this is the longest timeframe that I can find between "faith" and "healing." Jesus said "Go show yourselves to the priests." How long down the road before the one saw that he was healed (assuming it happened at that moment)? And we know that all 10 got healed, Jesus gave us that information. But the length of time was no longer than it took to walk a bit down the road, close enough that the man was able to come right back to Jesus and find him.
There is no six months, one year, two years, eight years.
While someone who "stands on his faith" and does not give in to go to a doctor for two years is quite diligent; and in that two years probably learned a lot about standing on his faith; and probably at the end of that two years "figured it out" and in a moment developed real faith and was probably healed instantly at that moment --
-- for others that two years could have killed them. I find this "standing" quite irresponsible. If you have developed your faith, you will be healed. Will you not?? This is what I want biblical proofs for.
I cut my finger. I have faith that God has provided healing for it. I don't run around crying that I will bleed to death or that the cut will rot and spread all over my body now. No. I have faith that God has provided healing and that my body will heal. I have a responsibility: clean the cut, put some antibiotic on it perhaps, and put a bandage to keep it clean from future infection. It will heal. I know this. I have faith in how God built my body.
Ok, I've opened my mouth up way too wide, perhaps. And I've presented my back side for a very swift kick. Help me to understand anything that I may be missing here.
And understand as you kick my back side: I do believe in the provision of God for healing in the atonement. I teach it. I do believe that God heals today. I do believe that God gave us authority over sickness and disease and demons and the enemy. What I'm asking about here really boils down to standing on false faith, when true faith takes over, and the danger of the situation in between the two.
Kick away.
---
There is another thread here, "Will God ever tell us to go to a doctor?" And there is much good advice there. As I read it I run across sentences and paragraphs that, while I don't find them offensively wrong, they seem to lead in an ill advised direction. So I took the words from those posts and I went and meditated on the subjects.
They brought my mind to other places, other verses and even discussions between my wife and I about healing and doctors and when, if ever, the two shall meet. What all this brought up in my soul was the question of timing and when do we know if the direction we should walk is to a doctor.
I'm gong to throw some ideas out, and in my method probably a lot of verses. I'd like to see a biblically based discussion on this subject, to try and show answer to what healing is, when it happens and when we can know that we need help.
Some of what I present here is my opinion based upon the scripture that I have found and studied over the years. I would appreciate if the answers coming back had scriptural backing, and were not simply "well, what I think...." Simply because what "we think" could get someone killed. Let's back this up with scripture, and see what the Word says.
----
Here are some of the thoughts I meditated on. Remember (especially those of you who have formed a liking for ABlessedMan): I am not perfect, nor is my understanding of the bible complete. I can make mistakes, and this may be my biggest one!!
Healing. We know, as Word/Faith members, that healing is in the atonement. Jesus died on the cross not only for our sins, but for our healing and much, much more. He came to make us whole, to give us an abundant life.
When we look to the Bible there is no better healer than our Lord Jesus Christ. He went about teaching and healing many.
I've heard from many a great and popular teachers programs and sites "testimonies" about great healings. Let's generalize and say that someone had a growth on their body. In some of the stories, they would stand on faith and the growth would continue to grow for a while, then it would stop and then it would get smaller and finally either fall off or disappear. The healing would take anywhere from, let's say, a few months to many, many years.
"Hallelujah" is the cry from the choir.
But when I look at Jesus' ministry (or Paul's, etc.) I simply do not see healings that took that long.
(You mad at me yet?)
Luke 17:11-19
12And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
(I would like to point out before I forget this last line. It is said to the woman with the issue of blood as well. This is said AFTER he is already healed, by the way. Ok, back to the post at hand....)12And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
And this is a great set of verses to talk and preach on the importance of praising God and giving Him glory for your healing. After all, He is the one who heals no matter how the healing comes about: miracle, healing, doctors, medication. It was God anyway.
But this is the longest timeframe that I can find between "faith" and "healing." Jesus said "Go show yourselves to the priests." How long down the road before the one saw that he was healed (assuming it happened at that moment)? And we know that all 10 got healed, Jesus gave us that information. But the length of time was no longer than it took to walk a bit down the road, close enough that the man was able to come right back to Jesus and find him.
There is no six months, one year, two years, eight years.
While someone who "stands on his faith" and does not give in to go to a doctor for two years is quite diligent; and in that two years probably learned a lot about standing on his faith; and probably at the end of that two years "figured it out" and in a moment developed real faith and was probably healed instantly at that moment --
-- for others that two years could have killed them. I find this "standing" quite irresponsible. If you have developed your faith, you will be healed. Will you not?? This is what I want biblical proofs for.
I cut my finger. I have faith that God has provided healing for it. I don't run around crying that I will bleed to death or that the cut will rot and spread all over my body now. No. I have faith that God has provided healing and that my body will heal. I have a responsibility: clean the cut, put some antibiotic on it perhaps, and put a bandage to keep it clean from future infection. It will heal. I know this. I have faith in how God built my body.
Ok, I've opened my mouth up way too wide, perhaps. And I've presented my back side for a very swift kick. Help me to understand anything that I may be missing here.
And understand as you kick my back side: I do believe in the provision of God for healing in the atonement. I teach it. I do believe that God heals today. I do believe that God gave us authority over sickness and disease and demons and the enemy. What I'm asking about here really boils down to standing on false faith, when true faith takes over, and the danger of the situation in between the two.
Kick away.
I'll get some extra padding.
