Is God's idea of justice radically different than ours?
- Thread starter Timothew
- Start date
Some interesting food for thoughts, but in my opinion he is taking too big a leap from the idea that God's justice must be comprehensible (and I agree with him) to the conclusion that hell must not exist.
However, there have been quite a lot of christian theologians reaching the alternative conclusion that hell probably exists but is (almost) empty.
Personally I think it's best for us to think hell as very possible, otherwise it we think heaven is granted anyway we may effectively stop worrying about behaving better in our lives.
However, there have been quite a lot of christian theologians reaching the alternative conclusion that hell probably exists but is (almost) empty.
Personally I think it's best for us to think hell as very possible, otherwise it we think heaven is granted anyway we may effectively stop worrying about behaving better in our lives.
Upvote
0
Senecharnix
The Emissary
- Dec 24, 2010
- 937
- 15
- 69
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
Hell is very real and it is teeming with lost souls. Those who end up suffering its torments are Satan's children. They end up with their spiritual father through their own choices and the attitudes that they entertain.
Upvote
0
According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death. Not torment in Hell.
You can read this for yourself in Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Upvote
0
Senecharnix
The Emissary
- Dec 24, 2010
- 937
- 15
- 69
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
Eventually, they will die. Before then, however, they will suffer....
Matthew: 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear. 44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to treasure hid in a field; the which when a man has found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field. 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. 47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 51 Jesus said to them, Have you understood all these things? They say to him, Yes, Lord. 52 Then said he to them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed to the kingdom of heaven is like to a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old. 53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed there. 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, From where has this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brothers, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? From where then has this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew: 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who has ears to hear, let him hear. 44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to treasure hid in a field; the which when a man has found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field. 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. 47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 51 Jesus said to them, Have you understood all these things? They say to him, Yes, Lord. 52 Then said he to them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed to the kingdom of heaven is like to a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure things new and old. 53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed there. 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, From where has this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brothers, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? From where then has this man all these things? 57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Upvote
0
You know, stuff burns up to nothing when you put it in a furnace.
Kind of like Paul wrote, the wages of sin is death.
Kind of like Paul wrote, the wages of sin is death.
Upvote
0
Senecharnix
The Emissary
- Dec 24, 2010
- 937
- 15
- 69
- Faith
- Christian Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
But it take a while to burn the souls of the lost to nothing. Besides, Hell's torments consist of much more than its fires. The damned will not actually be tossed into its flames until after Judgment Day. Many of those who spend their time as inmates of Hell until then will suffer countless opportunitites to find out all about just how miserable their tormentors can make them. The remainder of Hell's inmates will merely languish in misery. Most of it is rather hot and stinks...
Upvote
0
I'm sorry, I don't know anything about all of that.
I just get my information from the bible.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Albion
Facilitator
They show us without any doubt about it that there is a continuous existence after death. This doesn't negate Rom 6:23 but puts it into perspective. You know that all of scripture is inspired and given for our instruction, so we have to take it all under consideration when inquiring into difficult issues like this one.
Upvote
0
OK, let's take ALL of scripture under consideration. You go first. Starting with Romans 6:23
Upvote
0
Well, what do you think of this sentence from the OP Article?
If hell is real, and God is just, then we know squat about justice. If God could shut hell down, but for whatever excellent (and highly secretive) reason chooses not to, then any Christian who goes out into the world meaning to create within it more justice may as well substitute for their goal getting eels to excel at tap dancing. It simply doesnt make sense for me to fight for something that not only do I not understand, but which all available evidence indicates I have perfectly and exactly wrong.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
For instance:
Wailing and gnashing of teeth. Do you think this absolutely proves that some people burn alive in hell for all eternity? If so how? It doesn't say that. Is there an instance where people could wail and gnash and not be burning in total agony in fire? Is it automatic that if you are on fire you gnash your teeth? One time I burned my hand, but I forgot to gnash my teeth. Did I burn my hand wrong because there was no gnashing?
What about other opportunities for gnashing? I'll suggest one. If someone is going off to their death, knowing full well that could have had eternal life, do you suppose that could be an occasion of angry tooth gnashing? It makes more sense than gnashing because you are on fire.
Upvote
0
Albion
Facilitator
Not necessarily, but I was replying to your statement, "Not torture in Hell." Well, these verses indicate that there is some anguish or torture of some kind. If could be self-imposed if you want to dispute the word "torture" but we aren't just extinguished.
I don't think that's what the passage is referring to, but of course this isn't the only reference to punishment to come AND in the afterlife. What do you make of the parable of Lazarus, then?
Upvote
0
The parable of Lazarus was a parable Jesus told. We know that not every detail in a parable has to be literally true in order for the parable to convey the truth. The parable was not about the conditions in hell. The parable was about not trusting in your riches in this life as evidence that God is pleased with you.
But there are hundreds of passages that say the result of sin is death. Ezekiel 18:4 is one example.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
C
cupid dave
Guest
Justice seems to be based upon the Laws of Evolution which tell us that eternal life for a species depends upon those species adapting to God's ways, his ever changing and unfolding of Reality on Earth.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
