secular things

Zecryphon · Aug 16, 2011

UFC and MMA don't have any protective gear worth mentioning.

In your opinion.

Many street fights don't involve weapons either.

True, but who's advocating that street fighting is a sport?

It may not matter to them, but it matters as a point of your faith that you love everyone that God has created. Not necessarily what they say and do, but them as people.

Fine, but I'm not involved in either MMA or Boxing so my faith has nothing to do with either of those activities. But if you believe I'm a bad Christian for believing that people who willingly want to participate in these sports should do so, well you just go ahead and think that. ^_^

Mutual Respect is not the same as mutual love.

Never said it was.

If a person is doing something that can not be done in love, they are sinning. Arbitrarily fighting a person because it entertains others is not something that can be done in love if you ask me. Violence . . . actual real violence (not simulated violence or circumstantial violence) should only be used when one has to defend themselves and there are no other good alternatives.

Well I suppose the boxers and MMA fighters could just hug each other through each round or run around the ring and avoid all contact, but the referees tend to frown upon that kind of behavior.

Luther073082 · Aug 16, 2011

Zecryphon said:
True, but who's advocating that street fighting is a sport?

Its not but ultimate fighting competitions are ment to look and be just like a street fight. The only rules involved are rules that are not typically broken in street fights anyways. So its essentially in my view. . . a street fight thats confined to a ring.

Fine, but I'm not involved in either MMA or Boxing so my faith has nothing to do with either of those activities. But if you believe I'm a bad Christian for believing that people who willingly want to participate in these sports should do so, well you just go ahead and think that.

Nope, not drawing judgements like that. However I'm pointing out to you why I don't think these activities are compatable with the Christian faith.

Well I suppose the boxers and MMA fighters could just hug each other through each round or run around the ring and avoid all contact, but the referees tend to frown upon that kind of behavior.

No only the viewers frown on that behavior. The refs would look very puzzled but there is nothing to call as no violation has occured. At least with MMA. There are regulations against hugging in boxing since it can be used for purposes other then outright boxing.

The viewers wish to be entertained by real and realistic combat with MMA. With boxing they wish to be entertained by real but not realistic combat.

Resha Caner · Aug 16, 2011

Dunstan said:
In my own life the thing that comes to mind is also writing, a hobby for me as well. I occasionally try my hand at satire and tongue-in-cheek which often crosses the line into speech that, if misunderstood, could be really insulting. I sometimes struggle with how much such potential misunderstanding is my own moral responsibility vs. that of anyone who may read it.

Sorry. Your post was buried by the gun thing. So, do you have any guidelines you try to follow? As I mentioned, one thing I'll never do in my stories is have God speak - unless it is an actual scriptural quote. I've also tried to develop ways to give characters some edge without using profanity. And, so far, I've not written anything where a character is aroused. That one's actually easy for me. It creeps me out to even try it.

My struggle, though, is violence/suspense. I'm concerned I may have crossed that line a few times (even though my stuff is considered PG by everyone else).

Aibrean · Aug 16, 2011

For my writing, it's always got a good moral base. Nothing gratuitous. Sex is more implied than anything else and always within the context of marriage.

Zecryphon · Aug 16, 2011

Luther073082 said:
Its not but ultimate fighting competitions are ment to look and be just like a street fight. The only rules involved are rules that are not typically broken in street fights anyways. So its essentially in my view. . . a street fight thats confined to a ring.

Yeah, because street fights have referees, the participants always show up without shoes, wearing shorts, and semi-padded gloves.

Nope, not drawing judgements like that. However I'm pointing out to you why I don't think these activities are compatable with the Christian faith.

Okay, so you're of the opinion that Christians shouldn't participate in these activities.

No only the viewers frown on that behavior. The refs would look very puzzled but there is nothing to call as no violation has occured. At least with MMA. There are regulations against hugging in boxing since it can be used for purposes other then outright boxing.

I trust that you've seen at least one boxing match in your life. So what happens when the two opponents lock up? The ref always breaks them apart. I don't watch that much MMA, it actually bores me, so I can't speak to the rules of that sport.

The viewers wish to be entertained by real and realistic combat with MMA. With boxing they wish to be entertained by real but not realistic combat.

So... the viewers of MMA or Boxing are committing a sin, you just can't really nail down which one it is?

Luther073082 · Aug 16, 2011

Zecryphon said:
Yeah, because street fights have referees, the participants always show up without shoes, wearing shorts, and semi-padded gloves.

Considering what they are wearing has no protective value whatso ever other then possibly the gloves protecting their hands. . . I see little difference.

And the refs are there mainly to make sure that the few rules it does have don't get violated and see to the survival of the combatants.

Okay, so you're of the opinion that Christians shouldn't participate in these activities.

Certainly

I trust that you've seen at least one boxing match in your life. So what happens when the two opponents lock up? The ref always breaks them apart. I don't watch that much MMA, it actually bores me, so I can't speak to the rules of that sport.

I've never watched an entire match but I've seen enough to know that when they lock up they are broken apart.

So... the viewers of MMA or Boxing are committing a sin, you just can't really nail down which one it is?

Traditionally the church has opposed violence its glorification for the sheer sake of violence.

As to if their sinning just by viewing it, it would of course depend on why they where viewing it.

And if we establish that participating in the activity is counter to the Christian faith, it would certainly make sense that we do not want to lend our support to these organizations by viewing them.

Zecryphon · Aug 16, 2011

Luther073082 said:
Considering what they are wearing has no protective value whatso ever other then possibly the gloves protecting their hands. . . I see little difference.

And the refs are there mainly to make sure that the few rules it does have don't get violated and see to the survival of the combatants.

Certainly

I've never watched an entire match but I've seen enough to know that when they lock up they are broken apart.

Traditionally the church has opposed violence its glorification for the sheer sake of violence.

As to if their sinning just by viewing it, it would of course depend on why they where viewing it.

And if we establish that participating in the activity is counter to the Christian faith, it would certainly make sense that we do not want to lend our support to these organizations by viewing them.

I've seen a few people try to say viewing these things are against the Christian faith, but such stances were always rooted in piety or legalism.

AngCath · Aug 16, 2011

Resha Caner said:
Sorry. Your post was buried by the gun thing. So, do you have any guidelines you try to follow? As I mentioned, one thing I'll never do in my stories is have God speak - unless it is an actual scriptural quote. I've also tried to develop ways to give characters some edge without using profanity. And, so far, I've not written anything where a character is aroused. That one's actually easy for me. It creeps me out to even try it.

My struggle, though, is violence/suspense. I'm concerned I may have crossed that line a few times (even though my stuff is considered PG by everyone else).

No, I don't have any specific guidelines. As much as I try to avoid this approach in my life, I often end up asking myself if it "feels right" (a terrible barometer, I know!). God never speaks nor do I use profanity in my writing, but these aren't rules so much as things that wouldn't occur for me in the first place.

Resha Caner · Aug 16, 2011

I had something very broad in mind when I started this ... and that didn't work very well. So, before I give up, I'll try one more time to make the question specific:

Do you think scripture says anything about "rights?"

To get the ball rolling, I'll specifically point to a human rights issue like slavery. I don't think scripture supports slavery (despite Philemon, etc.). Rather, I think that when scripture speaks of slavery it is trying to make us look outside ourselves. When Joseph was enslaved, he didn't preach to Potiphar or Pharoh about the immorality of slavery. He didn't try to start an emancipation movement amongst his fellows in prison.

Yet look what his faith accomplished. So, based on that example, I conclude we are to look for God's will first and our rights second.

AngCath · Aug 16, 2011

The question of rights is a tricky one, theologically speaking. It's a subject where what I want to believe and what I can defend from Scripture may not align.

Rechtgläubig · Aug 16, 2011

alexnbethmom said:
i guess now would be a really dumb time for me to publicly admit that i actually like to watch heavyweight boxing......

Or that I train MMA. lol ^_^

Resha Caner · Aug 16, 2011

Dunstan said:
The question of rights is a tricky one, theologically speaking. It's a subject where what I want to believe and what I can defend from Scripture may not align.

It's admirable that you realize that.

AngCath · Aug 17, 2011

Resha Caner said:
It's admirable that you realize that.

I appreciate the compliment, but I'd like to think this is one of things our tradition has handed us - even our most idealistic and well-intended notions are stained by Sin.

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