The faithless atheist

Simply_Amazing

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If atheists describe themselves in this way.......then tell me what the difference is between that and agnostic belief.

And I don't understand this weak half weak, half strong, strong .........classification system for atheism. Its not that hard to identify what you beleive. You either beleive there is a God or you don't. No one can prove there is no God....so the best anyone can is that they are an agnostic...they just don't think so. All beliefs are based on faith.
No. First off, the confusion you're having is because of the different classifications of atheism. There are different systems of classification, and they don't always match up. "Atheist" pretty much always means one that doesn't believe in God. But agnostic changes. Under some definitions, you can have an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist.

You are right that you can't disprove God, (you can't prove negatives about the existence of something with no other perimeters) but we don't need to. Because of the kind of belief atheism is, the only thing needed to substantiate it is a lack of evidence for theism.
 
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Simply_Amazing

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We are all christians, and we are sprudeliludely with the holy ghost!

I say this because of the passage in the bible that says "All creation gives glory to the LORD!" So whether or not you like it, Even atheists will glorify the LORD. And i believe it is in a time soon to come!!
:doh:
 
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hollyda

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gnos·tic   
[nos-tik]
–adjective Also, gnos·ti·cal.
1.
pertaining to knowledge.
2.
possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.
3.
( initial capital letter ) pertaining to or characteristic of the Gnostics.

the·ism   
[thee-iz-uhm]
–noun
1.
the belief in one god as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
2.
belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).


The confusion regarding the difference between agnostic and atheist is the lack of identification of what the root words mean. Agnosticism pertains to knowledge, or more specifically, lack of knowledge, whereas atheist refers to lack of belief. An agnostic does not make a belief statement or belief rejection regarding the existence of god(s), whereas an atheist would say they do not believe in gods.

An agnostic by the definition would not say "I do not believe in God," as that would make them an atheist. Now, agnostics and atheists can qualify the statement as it applies to themselves, but at the root of the actual word, agnostics are addressing the unknowable, whereas atheists simply don't believe.

My mother would be an agnostic theist. She doesn't know whether or not there is a god, but she believes there is. She attends church weekly. I am what you would call an agnostic atheist, but I prefer atheist because while I admit I can't know for sure, I still don't believe there is a god, thus the term atheist defines me much more than agnostic, just as the term theist would define my mother much more than agnostic.

So, to sum up.

Agnostic: lack of knowledge pertaining to the existence of gods
Atheist: lack of belief pertaining to the existence of gods.

Hope that clears up the confusion.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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The fact is you can belong to an organization and not even enter a building where they meet. And many atheist are organize and meet online and also in person. They also spread their worldview in many ways.
Undoubtedly. Barbers and dog owners and D&D enthusiasts do the same thing - what's your point?

If atheists describe themselves in this way.......then tell me what the difference is between that and agnostic belief.
As others have reiterated a number of times: Theism/atheism is one's ontological position, one's stance (or lack thereof) on the existence or non-existence of deities. Gnosticism/agnosticism is one's epistemological stance on whether we could know if deities exist or not.

A gnostic believes that we can, in principle, deduce the existence of God. This doesn't mean they do believe in God, nor that they don't believe in God. Similarly, agnostics believe that we can't, even in principle, deduce whether or not God exists. Someone can be a gnostic atheist (they believe you could, in principle, deduce God's existence, but doesn't think anyone's done that yet) or a gnostic theist (same thing, but they believe someone has demonstrated the existence of deities).

And I don't understand this weak half weak, half strong, strong .........classification system for atheism. Its not that hard to identify what you beleive. You either beleive there is a God or you don't. No one can prove there is no God....so the best anyone can is that they are an agnostic...they just don't think so.
You're right, you either believe in God or you don't. The theist believes in God, and the atheist doesn't. That's the proper meaning of the word 'atheist' - 'a' + 'theist', 'not theist'.

But the crucial point is that an atheist, who doesn't believe in God, doesn't necessarily assert that God absolutely does not exist - they may very well reject both propositions because of an absence of evidence.

But there are two types of atheists. The Strong atheist asserts that there absolutely are no gods. The Weak atheist asserts neither the existence nor the non-existence of Gods.

It isn't that hard to understand. What you call an 'atheist', we call a 'strong atheist'. What you call an 'agnostic', we call a 'weak atheist'. The term 'atheist', then, encompassed both the strong and the weak types of atheism.

All beliefs are based on faith.
Tell me, as per your definition of 'agnostic', in what does an agnostic have faith?
 
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