Debt Ceiling Fear Mongering

MachZer0

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I think that was supposedly a plan to defund the war/ occupation of Iraq. The same occupation he is continuing right now of course. Which leads me to believe his opposition was simply a political expediency. Just another game like the Republicans are playing now.
Actually, it was plan to raise the debt ceiling
 
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Ishraqiyun

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Actually, it was plan to raise the debt ceiling

I think we are talking about the same thing but maybe I misunderstood. Are you talking about the time that a small number of democrats refused to vote for a debt increase when Bush was in office because they were trying to prevent the funding of the war?
 
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variant

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I must drive you people nuts with my "style" of posting then...

Considering someone had called me a Marxist not too long ago though, I'm pretty sure I know what you all think of me. ;)
You obviously need to tow the party line more.

Tax cuts increase revenue.

Revenue is never an issue no matter how low it drops the issue is always spending always 100%.

Jobs are created only by running the country only for the sake of the super wealthy with no other considerations.

Uncertainty created by liberal politics hurts the economy.

Uncertainty created by conservatives threatening not to pay our bills in the future is good for the economy, and will have little to no negative consequences.

Threatening not to pay our bills and the downgrades that it is already causing are all Obama’s fault.
 
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Harpuia

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You obviously need to tow the party line more.

Tax cuts increase revenue.

Revenue is never an issue no matter how low it drops the issue is always spending always 100%.

Jobs are created only by running the country only for the sake of the super wealthy with no other considerations.

Uncertainty created by liberal politics hurts the economy.

Uncertainty created by conservatives threatening not to pay our bills in the future is good for the economy, and will have little to no negative consequences.

Threatening not to pay our bills and the downgrades that it is already causing are all Obama’s fault.

I had a party line? Well that sucks.
 
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Harpuia

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Well only if you don't want to be a communist.

Ah I see. Been drinking too much of that Leninade soda then.\

B_leninade.jpg
 
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variant

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I just want to know why Congress can be trusted with more power, money, taxes, etc. They've mismanaged what we gave them. Why give them more to mismanage?

Well Congress already passed bills that require funding and now they don't want to allow money to be borrowed to fund them but are not willing to come to a reasonable deal with the president because they don't like him and are willing to put our entire government into crisis rather than be seen working with someone they don't like.

Your right that they probably shouldn’t be trusted with more power but this is a Congress power thing through and through.
 
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Wolseley

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Considering someone had called me a Marxist not too long ago though, I'm pretty sure I know what you all think of me. ;)

Somebody called you a Marxist?

Next time, ask them which one: Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo, or Richard?
 
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KarateCowboy

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Well Congress already passed bills that require funding and now they don't want to allow money to be borrowed to fund them but are not willing to come to a reasonable deal with the president because they don't like him and are willing to put our entire government into crisis rather than be seen working with someone they don't like.

Your right that they probably shouldn’t be trusted with more power but this is a Congress power thing through and through.

Seems reasonable. My opinion is they should repeal the bills that need funding. Like if you go to the store and put $100 worth of groceries in the basket but then only have $50 in your pocket. Right?
 
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Harpuia

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Somebody called you a Marxist?

Next time, ask them which one: Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo, or Richard?

That would explain it, Wolseley. Harpo. Look at the name. XD
 
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allhart

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I can't see Jesus Christ walking onto the floor of congress and telling everyone that this is what where going to do to fix our nations economic problems,so I can't see any common ground fixing our problems or any common man being our, so called savior!
 
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Wolseley

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They are pitching us against each other.

Of course they are. That's what they've been doing for 40 years or better---they distract the masses with circuses so they difficult issues facing the country can be dodged and one of the two factions ("Republican" and "Democrat", two designatiopns which mean nothing any more) of the same WISP party (Washington Inside the Sysytem Politicians) can remain in power forever.

And we're stupid enough to buy it. We point fingers and yell "It's all the fault of the Republicans!" or ""It's all the fault of the Democrats!", thinking that if (choose your faction) was in office instead of the other, things would improve.

That's because we're too stupid to realize that IT DOESN'T FREAKING MATTER which one of the two factions is in office, because they're both the same: united with each other, and pitted against us.
 
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Yekcidmij

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I don't think the democrats are completely fear mongering. If the debt ceiling is not raised, the consequences will not be pleasant for some time. There are logical steps that will take place and the results will be a mix between the propaganda of the 2 parties. Republicans would get a predicted balanced budget and fiscally responsible government. Democrats would get the predicted financial crisis. If the ceiling is not raised:

(1) The federal budget will IMMEDIATELY be balanced, literally, in an instant. The limit to borrowing will ensure that the government cannot spend more than it takes in in tax revenues. This may sound good, but there are further consequences of balancing a budget in this manner.

(2) Credit across markets will collapse resulting in a sharp drop in the money supply. A major source of lending and borrowing would instantly be eliminated which would collapse credit and the money supply in an instant.

(3) GDP would contract as a large part of that figure is government spending. This is to say there would indeed be another recession - it's simple first grade math.

(4) As credit collapses and the money supply contracts sharply, prices will begin falling and we will quickly be in a deflationary/depressionary environment.

(5) A collapse of credit, the money supply, prices and GDP will give business earning across the economy a serious hit. This will be anticipated on August the 3rd with a large drop across markets including big items like stocks, commodities, housing, etc..

(6) A deflationary environment leads to drops in prices for everything - including your wages. People with large amounts of debt will quickly be in trouble as debt remains fixed while prices across the economy fall (or rise). This will be a further hit to markets and would likely intensify the governments debt problems in addition to hurting those across the economy who are in debt (think of cars, houses, credit cards, student loans, etc).

(7) The hit to businesses will cause businesses to begin economizing - meaning higher unemployment.

(8) I'm undecided what will happen to interest rates, bonds, and the US Dollar. Much of it depends on who the Treasury and Administration decide to pay and how the credit rating agencies respond. If creditors are assured of payment, bonds may rise, which keeps interest rates low. But since it's the credit rating on the line, it could easily be that bond markets get rocked and interest rates shoot up (think of Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, etc..). If bonds rise, the dollar will likely rise, but again since it's the credit rating on the line, there's a good chance that the dollar will crumble relative to other currencies. This would all be moot if the credit agencies reduce the rating all the way to "default" status. In this case we may be talking bank run and currency crisis. There would also be a big payday for Credit Default Swaps (remember those little devils from a couple of years ago?).

Those who think that nothing will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised are seriously mistaken. Credit and money supply collapse, GDP contraction, and deflation, are assured by simple math. The ancicipation of the hit to business earnings/profits is certain to be displayed across markets as they begin to contract (bye bye stock market). A bank run becomes a serious danger as the "safe" asset of the US bond stands to turn into a liability, literally overnight.

My prediction, beyond the easy consequences to spot, is that this will all not last long though. Politicians will not be able to stomach the results. And if they do not intervene with a deal, the Federal Reserve has a stated policy against severe deflation, and just stated last week that QE3 is not off the table. If Congress did not act, the Fed would step in with QE3 in an attempt to save the economy. Who knows what the results of that would be.

My actual prediction is that congress members are well aware of these consequences and a deal will be reached before to raise the debt ceiling. But, it did take a stock market crash to get them to vote a second time in favor of TARP in '08.
 
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Notamonkey

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I don't think the democrats are completely fear mongering. If the debt ceiling is not raised, the consequences will not be pleasant for some time. There are logical steps that will take place and the results will be a mix between the propaganda of the 2 parties. Republicans would get a predicted balanced budget and fiscally responsible government. Democrats would get the predicted financial crisis. If the ceiling is not raised:

(1) The federal budget will IMMEDIATELY be balanced, literally, in an instant. The limit to borrowing will ensure that the government cannot spend more than it takes in in tax revenues. This may sound good, but there are further consequences of balancing a budget in this manner.

(2) Credit across markets will collapse resulting in a sharp drop in the money supply. A major source of lending and borrowing would instantly be eliminated which would collapse credit and the money supply in an instant.

(3) GDP would contract as a large part of that figure is government spending. This is to say there would indeed be another recession - it's simple first grade math.

(4) As credit collapses and the money supply contracts sharply, prices will begin falling and we will quickly be in a deflationary/depressionary environment.

(5) A collapse of credit, the money supply, prices and GDP will give business earning across the economy a serious hit. This will be anticipated on August the 3rd with a large drop across markets including big items like stocks, commodities, housing, etc..

(6) A deflationary environment leads to drops in prices for everything - including your wages. People with large amounts of debt will quickly be in trouble as debt remains fixed while prices across the economy fall (or rise). This will be a further hit to markets and would likely intensify the governments debt problems in addition to hurting those across the economy who are in debt (think of cars, houses, credit cards, student loans, etc).

(7) The hit to businesses will cause businesses to begin economizing - meaning higher unemployment.

(8) I'm undecided what will happen to interest rates, bonds, and the US Dollar. Much of it depends on who the Treasury and Administration decide to pay and how the credit rating agencies respond. If creditors are assured of payment, bonds may rise, which keeps interest rates low. But since it's the credit rating on the line, it could easily be that bond markets get rocked and interest rates shoot up (think of Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, etc..). If bonds rise, the dollar will likely rise, but again since it's the credit rating on the line, there's a good chance that the dollar will crumble relative to other currencies. This would all be moot if the credit agencies reduce the rating all the way to "default" status. In this case we may be talking bank run and currency crisis. There would also be a big payday for Credit Default Swaps (remember those little devils from a couple of years ago?).

Those who think that nothing will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised are seriously mistaken. Credit and money supply collapse, GDP contraction, and deflation, are assured by simple math. The ancicipation of the hit to business earnings/profits is certain to be displayed across markets as they begin to contract (bye bye stock market). A bank run becomes a serious danger as the "safe" asset of the US bond stands to turn into a liability, literally overnight.

My prediction, beyond the easy consequences to spot, is that this will all not last long though. Politicians will not be able to stomach the results. And if they do not intervene with a deal, the Federal Reserve has a stated policy against severe deflation, and just stated last week that QE3 is not off the table. If Congress did not act, the Fed would step in with QE3 in an attempt to save the economy. Who knows what the results of that would be.

My actual prediction is that congress members are well aware of these consequences and a deal will be reached before to raise the debt ceiling. But, it did take a stock market crash to get them to vote a second time in favor of TARP in '08.
The results are always the same-inflation.
 
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