Student's apparent suicide linked to webcast of sexual encounter

armyman_83 · Oct 5, 2010

PreachersWife2004 said:
You've obviously have not had anyone close to you commit suicide. It's easy to say things like that, and it's easy to believe them, until someone you loved does it.

Yes, people do actively decide to take their own life, but it's rarely some cut and dry issue where they could've decided easily to go the other route. Some don't actively decide...they have mental issues that cause them to kill themselves. I have two quite crazy cousins who would probably kill themselves because the voices told them to, if they were not locked up and under heavy medication.

Point is, you can't know what was in this kid's mind. I don't think it's fair to say that the other kids caused him to kill himself, but I certainly think it's fair to say that the video probably had a hand in helping him along.

I haven't, thank God, had anyone take their own life that was close to me. I understand that some people do have serious disorders which cause them to want to harm themselves, it just seems that this person doesn't fit that bill. He was a talented violinist attending Rutgers. If he isn't of a sound mind, I don't know who might be.

And I agree with you point, its not fair to say the other kids caused him to take his life. Did the invasion of privacy help, no doubt.

PreachersWife2004 · Oct 5, 2010

armyman_83 said:
I haven't, thank God, had anyone take their own life that was close to me. I understand that some people do have serious disorders which cause them to want to harm themselves, it just seems that this person doesn't fit that bill. He was a talented violinist attending Rutgers. If he isn't of a sound mind, I don't know who might be.

And I agree with you point, its not fair to say the other kids caused him to take his life. Did the invasion of privacy help, no doubt.

If you look at some of the great musical talents of our lifetime, it could be said some of them were or are not of soundmind...

Just sayin'...good grades and attending the best schools doesn't mean sound mind. Actually, the stats probably show something far different.

Phylogeny · Oct 11, 2010

armyman_83 said:
I haven't, thank God, had anyone take their own life that was close to me. I understand that some people do have serious disorders which cause them to want to harm themselves, it just seems that this person doesn't fit that bill. He was a talented violinist attending Rutgers. If he isn't of a sound mind, I don't know who might be.

And I agree with you point, its not fair to say the other kids caused him to take his life. Did the invasion of privacy help, no doubt.

Come visit an outpatient psych ward, or shadow a psychologist or psychiatrist. Heck, in my med school alone, I can point out several students---i.e successfuly, talented people with brilliant futures---who are depressed, who have probably contemplated suicide. In fact, it is commonly know that doctors have a higher than average rate of depression and suicide. Yet, many physicians are, by society's definition, successful and 'has it together'.

Depression isn't only an affliction of those 'on the down'. It can be hidden away in the most successful people.

Depression can be precipitated by stressful events (i.e perhaps why so many med students, residents and physicians have depression), or it can be the result of traumatic childhoods, or it can be genetic. I have seen all three in my patients and among friends. I think it's incredibly callous to say that this young many be 'held responsible' for his suicide. That is about as obscene as blaming Patrick Swayze for dying of pancreatic cancer.

Yusuf Evans · Oct 12, 2010

I spoke about this on another forum, and I'll bring my personal opinion into this. My personal feeling of anyone who commits suicide to escape life's problems is a coward, and I'm not going to apologize for that comment. If he was that ashamed of being gay(which I'm not sure why he was), then he shouldn't have been having sex with men or bringing them back to the dorm to sleep with. That's my opinion and believe that if a person commits suicide, no sympathy should be shown towards them but to the family that's the true victim in this tragedy.

As for the idiots that videotaped the encounter then plastered it on the internet, I kind of hope they get thrown in prison. They get made to be someone's girlfriend and their own sexual exploits be shown on live television and see how they feel about it being done to them.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 12, 2010

As to him being 18, well--if he is legally recognized as an adult (of sound mind), and can vote then I think he should be held accountable for any act of suicide.

Sound Mind--
"That state of a man's mind which is adequate to reason and comes to a judgment upon ordinary subjects, like other rational men.

The law presumes that every person who has acquired his full age is of sound mind, and consequently competent to make contracts and perform all his civil duties; and he who asserts to the contrary must prove the affirmation of his position by explicit evidence, and not by conjectural proof."--'Lectric Law Library'

Using the definition of 'sound mind' that you present, this would imply that suicide was (in this instance) a rational option deliberated by a sound mind. Put otherwise, the assumption that someone preparing to commit suicide is in a sound state of mind would suggest that, not only are they are totally accountable, but they are making a rational choice in the purview of other rational choices. I would argue against this. When someone indicates signs of suicidal ideation they are treated clinically, no matter what their age, as though their mind is no longer sound. Often they are put on psychotropic medication, treated with CBT, hospitalised, or a combination of these and other interventions. The aim of these therapies is to return the patient to a 'sound mind' wherein they are no longer suicidal.

Archaeopteryx · Oct 12, 2010

My personal feeling of anyone who commits suicide to escape life's problems is a coward, and I'm not going to apologize for that comment.

I think certain words don't fit into this sentence as a description of suicide. To 'escape' would imply not only that one leaves one's problems behind in the past, but that there is a point of relief (in the present or future) at which one would could say that they have 'escaped'. This comes with the feeling of relief to have escaped a particular averse situation. Suicide yields no such outcome, thus 'escape' would seem an inappropriate word to describe it. There is also an issue surrounding the use of 'life's problems'. Having met some people who've exhibited suicidal ideation they do not see suicide as a response to 'life's problems', but as a response to life being the problem. This of course only describes some people's thought processes. Once life becomes framed as 'the problem' the obvious solution that comes to mind is the opposite of life: death. In a mind plagued by suicidal ideation this equation is robust and rational, and it is very difficult to employ conventional reason as a means of persuading them otherwise. To them it's not about cowardice. In their mind it would be cowardly to live a life (that they judge) not worth living.

I <3 Abraham · Oct 12, 2010

Art Vandelay said:
I think certain words don't fit into this sentence as a description of suicide. To 'escape' would imply not only that one leaves one's problems behind in the past, but that there is a point of relief (in the present or future) at which one would could say that they have 'escaped'. This comes with the feeling of relief to have escaped a particular averse situation. Suicide yields no such outcome, thus 'escape' would seem an inappropriate word to describe it. There is also an issue surrounding the use of 'life's problems'. Having met some people who've exhibited suicidal ideation they do not see suicide as a response to 'life's problems', but as a response to life being the problem. This of course only describes some people's thought processes. Once life becomes framed as 'the problem' the obvious solution that comes to mind is the opposite of life: death. In a mind plagued by suicidal ideation this equation is robust and rational, and it is very difficult to employ conventional reason as a means of persuading them otherwise. To them it's not about cowardice. In their mind it would be cowardly to live a life (that they judge) not worth living.

Nicely put.

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Student's apparent suicide linked to webcast of sexual encounter

armyman_83

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PreachersWife2004

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Phylogeny

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Yusuf Evans

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Archaeopteryx

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Archaeopteryx

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I <3 Abraham

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