the Pope and the Papacy

Melethiel · Aug 5, 2010

Searching_for_Christ said:
Why does expressing Theological disagreement with the Catholic Church have to equal Catholic-bashing?

It becomes Catholic-bashing when it's purposefully blinding yourself to what the actual disagreements are, and attacking a strawman just for the sake of attacking it. I'm Lutheran - clearly, I have theological disagreements with the Catholic Church. But I also make it a point to argue against what their documents actually say, not what some Protestant rabble-rouser claims they do.

GratiaCorpusChristi · Aug 5, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Would you consider Paul as doing the same here or no?

1Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

What wording is unacceptable exactly?

One of my favorite verses.

Paul is drawing of the Shema, the central Jewish confession of faith found in Deut 6:4 ("Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one," also translated "Hear O Israel, our God is Lord alone"), in an attempt to rework the monotheism of of Judaism into the Trinitarianism that became so central to Christian faith. He is not drawing a distinction between God the Father and the Lord Jesus, but is actually placing both the Father and Jesus under the singular title "the Lord God." Thus Jesus is more than a human prophet or Messiah, but participates in the fullness of Yahweh (the personal name of the Hebrew deity, now known by his fuller name, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit") together with his Father, the Father of Israel.

Searching_for_Christ · Aug 5, 2010

Melethiel said:
It becomes Catholic-bashing when it's purposefully blinding yourself to what the actual disagreements are, and attacking a strawman just for the sake of attacking it.

Then perhaps this thread needs to continue with first the Catholics Clarifying for those who want to "quarrel" the misunderstandings of MacArthur

THEN let them try to pick it apart.

Fireinfolding · Aug 5, 2010

simonthezealot said:
FF i agree i am a lil perplexed with their argument as well...
By thier view we wouldn't be able to call Him "the annointed one of God" "son of God" or anything like that.

The simplicty sorta gets lost in all the "fine" verbalage I agree ^_^

I'm glad I'm not alone on that

GratiaCorpusChristi · Aug 5, 2010

Searching_for_Christ said:
Why does expressing Theological disagreement with the Catholic Church have to equal Catholic-bashing?

Oh, it doesn't. I heavily disagree with Thomistic-Catholic theology on a number of important points. But in here it almost always turns out to be a free-for-all attack against the papal antichrist.

simonthezealot · Aug 5, 2010

The point he was making now starting to get clouded though is the RC's disproportianate adherence to the marian doctines.
The elevated deistic identity created by unscriptural wranglings and what ultimately becomes a desire to usurp glory due God only by the adversary imo.

Melethiel · Aug 5, 2010

Searching_for_Christ said:
Then perhaps this thread needs to continue with first the Catholics Clarifying for those who want to "quarrel" the misunderstandings of MacArthur THEN let them try to pick it apart.

You clearly haven't read the entire thread, have you?

simonthezealot · Aug 5, 2010

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
Sweet, back to Catholic-bashing.

If that's what you desire to call it, and you don't care for it then you could always find another forum...
I clearly am disturbed by their misleading of the many and will continue on as long as i am compelled to do so, so call it what you may but scrutiny is what the Roman theology needs...Not unity on falsehoods.

Fireinfolding · Aug 5, 2010

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
One of my favorite verses.

Paul is drawing of the Shema, the central Jewish confession of faith found in Deut 6:4 ("Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one," also translated "Hear O Israel, our God is Lord alone"), in an attempt to rework the monotheism of of Judaism into the Trinitarianism that became so central to Christian faith. He is not drawing a distinction between God the Father and the Lord Jesus, but is actually placing both the Father and Jesus under the singular title "the Lord God." Thus Jesus is more than a human prophet or Messiah, but participates in the fullness of Yahweh (the personal name of the Hebrew deity, now known by his fuller name, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit") together with his Father, the Father of Israel.

Thanks GCC for that thought out reply that was more then I was looking for

This is why... because Paul would write would he wrote and you yourself gave it thought (as you just shared) But someone else might say, "Christ and even God" (in short and simply put) and not as extensively as Paul did and folks crucify the man over His 4 choice words, thats what I'm sorta getting at.

Christ, and, even ,God....?? It gets sorta nuts ^_^

Rick Otto · Aug 5, 2010

GratiaCorpusChristi said:
Oh, it doesn't. I heavily disagree with Thomistic-Catholic theology on a number of important points. But in here it almost always turns out to be a free-for-all attack against the papal antichrist.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Heavily disagreeing with Thomistic Catholicism is SO 12th century.

Ok, but seriously, isn't your criticism selective? I mean like we don't get Inquisitioned for the very blasphemies of our individual mini-pope interpretatons? I constantly get redefined & misrepresented by "the one true church" congregants. Try to take it in stride gracefully, bro.

Trento · Aug 5, 2010

Sargent_Pepper said:
You will find that it is my custom to not respond to Roman Catholic e-pologists who cut and paste large bundles of material from Roman Catholic quote mines, taken out of context and twisted like RCs do the Scripture and ECFs.

How about Protestant patristic scholars.

Protestant Church historian Philip Schaff comments on St. Augustine's views of Scripture and Tradition:

Augustine, therefore, manifestly acknowledges a gradual advancement of the church doctrine, which reaches its corresponding expression from time to time through the general councils; but a progress within the truth, without positive error. for in a certain sense, as against heretics, he made the authority of Holy Scripture dependent on the authority of the catholic church, in his famous dictum against the Manichaean heretics: "I would not believe the gospel, did not the authority of the catholic church compel me."

(History of the Christian Church, Vol. III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity: A.D. 311-600, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1974; reproduction of 5th revised edition of 1910, Chapter V, section 66, "The Synodical System. The Ecumenical Councils," pp. 344-345)

He adopted Cyprian's doctrine of the church, and completed it in the conflict with Donatism by transferring the predicates of unity, holiness, universality, exclusiveness and maternity, directly to the actual church of the time, which, with a firm episcopal organization, an unbroken succession, and the Apostles' Creed, triumphantly withstood the eighty or the hundred opposing sects in the heretical catalogue of the day, and had its visible centre in Rome.
(Ibid., Chapter X, section 180, "The Influence of Augustine upon Posterity and his Relation to Catholicism and Protestantism," pp. 1019-1020)

[SIZE=-1]HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH - Phillip Schaff

CHAPTER X.

CHURCH FATHERS, AND THEOLOGICAL LITERATURE

Quote Schaff--
"We recall his (Augustine's) famous anti-Manichaean dictum: "Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas." The Protestant would reverse this maxim, and ground his faith in the church on his faith in Christ and in the gospel. "

It was, indeed, a full and unconditional surrender of Augustine's mind and heart to God, but it was at the same time a submission of his private judgment to the authority of the church which led him to the faith of the gospel.

HISTORY of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH - Phillip Schaff

[/SIZE]

Fireinfolding · Aug 5, 2010

I dont even understand all that, is there an interpreter in the house? ^_^

tadoflamb · Aug 5, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
I dont even understand all that, is there an interpreter in the house?

Augustine was Catholic.

Latin rite. :liturgy:

"Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas."

Yarddog · Aug 5, 2010

simonthezealot said:
Lest you slip into mortal sin...Then it's work your pennance off.

No matter how you sin after receiving Jesus, one should feel sorrow. There are plenty of works of the Spirit and that is one of them. So it is not our work but that of the Spirit.

Fireinfolding · Aug 5, 2010

tadoflamb said:
Augustine was Catholic.

Latin rite.

"Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas."

Whats that mean too? ^_^

Hey, you know what Paul says, if yall speak in other tongues and someone else dont we will naturally think you are mad ^_^

tadoflamb · Aug 5, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Whats that mean too?

Hey, you know what Paul says, if yall speak in other tongues and someone else dont we will naturally think you are mad

"Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas."

"I would not believe the gospel, did not the authority of the catholic church compel me."

I just figured it out myself.

Fireinfolding · Aug 5, 2010

tadoflamb said:
"Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas."

"I would not believe the gospel, did not the authority of the catholic church compel me."

I just figured it out myself.

Awh... I know your proud of yourself under that bashful smile

Its sorta funky speak yanno ^_^

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 5, 2010

tadoflamb said:
"Ego evangelio non crederem, nisi me catholicae ecclesiae commoveret auctoritas."

"I would not believe the gospel, did not the authority of the catholic church compel me."

I just figured it out myself.

Next on my list of books to read

Standing Up · Aug 5, 2010

Fireinfolding said:
Thanks GCC for that thought out reply that was more then I was looking for This is why... because Paul would write would he wrote and you yourself gave it thought (as you just shared) But someone else might say, "Christ and even God" (in short and simply put) and not as extensively as Paul did and folks crucify the man over His 4 choice words, thats what I'm sorta getting at.

Christ, and, even ,God....?? It gets sorta nuts

It's ad hominem (against the man) again. Basically you see it around here when folks point out the grammar mistakes and not your comment.

The deal with Arius was his statement that there was a time when Christ was not, implying that He is a created being. Christians believe Jesus Christ is God Incarnate and existed always.

Lots of the church at one time agreed with Arius. I highly doubt JM or RC agrees with Arian thinking, regardless of how "poorly" the words spilled out of his mouth.

laconicstudent · Aug 5, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Next on my list of books to read

I own that book too.

Unfortunately, I'm busy with my Spanish class, and then I should focus on Italian for my trip to Italy next month. I'm wanting to get around to it pretty soon though.

the Pope and the Papacy

Miserere mei, Domine

GratiaCorpusChristi

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simul justus et peccator

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GratiaCorpusChristi

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Miserere mei, Domine

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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The Dude Abides

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

On and on

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