What is it with UK television Programs??
- Thread starter Philip22
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And why isn't this available on the NHS that's what I want to know. Clearly there are plenty of people who are desperate to be suckers for these kind of charlatans.
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Our_God_Reigns
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We speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. Same now and same in Biblical times.
Try telling Lazarus he was still dead or Jesus that he did not really raise him. If Jesus was convinced then it works for me. I feel that the Son Of God knows God better than any of us.
Examples of others who were raised from the dead in the Bible:
In 1 Kings 17:22 Elijah raised a boy from the dead.
In 2 Kings 4:34-35 Elisha raised a boy from the dead.
In 2 Kings 13:20-21 Elisha's bones raised a man from the dead.
In Acts 9:40-41 Peter raised a woman from the dead.
In Acts 20:9-20 Paul raised a man from the dead.
It is hard to fathom why people find it so hard to believe that God can raise people from the dead when it is written in the Bible.
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Our_God_Reigns
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The real suckers are those that let the greatest charlatan of them all (the Devil) convince them that God's ability to do miracles through his people is restricted in some way. Were the many people reported in Acts 9:42 suckers and Paul a charlatan.
40Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. 41He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called the believers and the widows and presented her to them alive. 42This became known all over Joppa, and many people believed in the Lord.
When I come across claims I always look first at the evidence and then the fruit that a person brings. Was Smith Wigglesworth a phoney or a man of God? On the basis of his claims to have brought people back from death he could be condemned as a charlatan. But when you look at what God achieved through him then you see a man of God. God did not switch off at the end of the New Testament; he continues to work through his people today and every day.
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Phinehas2
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TheFijian,
There are plenty in the NHS, doctors, surgeons, anaesthetists and nurses who recognise God can perform miracles.
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The bible says a lot of untrue things though, so it's reasonable not to believe what it says unless it seems to make sense.
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There are many forums for atheism or agnostics on the world wide web. I would not go into one of these, as a Christian, and cut across the bows of those who have their belief, within a section of that forum which was not intended for that sort of debate. I believe it would be rather rude of me to do so. This going of topic and having one of those great theological debates seems a bit of a problem on this thread in general and this corner of Christian forums in particular. I will echo what has often been said before: There are sections of this forum for debating 'faith'. With all due respect that is the place to carry them out.
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I would hope you understand, and I would also hope I have explaned it well enough .
Remember this forum's rules:
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I would hope you understand, and I would also hope I have explaned it well enough .
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Oh I don't believe that God's ability to do miracles is restricted (except by his own will), I just don't believe that the manipulative frauds on God TV are interested in anything but self promotion. Todd Bently and his blasphemous Lakeland Revival is the perfect case in point.
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No my point was, why are these so-called healers only performing their feats at their own revival events? Why aren't they going into hospitals and healing even more people in need?
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Our_God_Reigns
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I feel the potential for violent agreement here. Matthew 24:24 and 1 John 4:1 are the sort of things that come to mind.
The fact that we have Christian TV channels is something I celebrate but as for the content viewing choice needs to be guided by the gift of discernment.
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I think there are now two distinct discussions taking place; so called religious channels and mainstream secular TV.
I do not have God TV, or any broadcast TV for that matter, because as I have said many times here on this forum, it has got so awful. A week or so back I watched a lot of terrestrial TV when staying at my Grandfathe's in Watford. This did not change my mind. My grandfather was constantly flicking channels once Coronation Street, Eastenders or Emerdale had finished. I myself could have gone the mass channel route at home but could not be bothered. I have found much of the mainstream, mass channel TV rather superficial.
I have seen a little God TV when round at my fathers house. The bits I have seen tend to follow a style of a charismatic leader seeming to constantly yell at the congregation. Obviously all media routes offer the chance for people to come to know God, and progress beyond belief into a living and vibrant Christian faith. So it is not surprising that where this is most likely to happen through the media, i.e. Christian channels, the devil steps in to block off that route - if at all possible. Some of those preachers I am sure are genuine, others I feel, are at best not guided by God in what they try to teach. While there is still time, there is this constant spiritual battle taking place. The devil is constantly seeking to diminish both the sovereignty of God (this was why he so envied God in the first place, he wanted all the sovereignty for himself) as well as the reality of Him. It is happening all over the place. It has even happened on this very thread!
I do not have God TV, or any broadcast TV for that matter, because as I have said many times here on this forum, it has got so awful. A week or so back I watched a lot of terrestrial TV when staying at my Grandfathe's in Watford. This did not change my mind. My grandfather was constantly flicking channels once Coronation Street, Eastenders or Emerdale had finished. I myself could have gone the mass channel route at home but could not be bothered. I have found much of the mainstream, mass channel TV rather superficial.
I have seen a little God TV when round at my fathers house. The bits I have seen tend to follow a style of a charismatic leader seeming to constantly yell at the congregation. Obviously all media routes offer the chance for people to come to know God, and progress beyond belief into a living and vibrant Christian faith. So it is not surprising that where this is most likely to happen through the media, i.e. Christian channels, the devil steps in to block off that route - if at all possible. Some of those preachers I am sure are genuine, others I feel, are at best not guided by God in what they try to teach. While there is still time, there is this constant spiritual battle taking place. The devil is constantly seeking to diminish both the sovereignty of God (this was why he so envied God in the first place, he wanted all the sovereignty for himself) as well as the reality of Him. It is happening all over the place. It has even happened on this very thread!
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non-religious
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What evidence is there to suggest that it happens today? Name the person who has raised someone from the dead.
It is absolute WoF garbage. Raising someone from the dead, healing people of AIDS, or performing credible physically manifested healings, that can be veried by an independent witness, are all things that WoFers like to claim, but just cannot substantiate. I am not suggesting that God, if He so wills, cannot or does not heal. I am however absolutely stating that to suggest people have been raised from the dead post the age of the apostles, is indeed false.
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Phinehas2
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non-religious, there are posters here who cant even seem to acknowledge what the Bible says, how they are going to have the faith to see the supernatural God does is therefore the challenge. The supernatural is supernatural whether healing or raising from the dead, those who dont believe will attribute things to the natural.
and even in the NT it wasnt just the first 12 apostles who healed.
and even in the NT it wasnt just the first 12 apostles who healed.
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Phinehas2
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The Christian TV channels are not all charismatic, there are available on Sky, RC channels. Whilst some of it is not my style and I have doubts about some, my main objection to false teaching is much of the liberal stuff presented as Christian on secular TV, notably C4.
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Our_God_Reigns
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I have already answered this earlier in this thread including one name.
As for people being raised from the dead it does happen, it is no big deal, and it is very rare even in the Bible. The fact that there are false prophets amongst us means that we should:
- not cloud our vision to the extent that it extinguishes all possibilities; but
- also make us mindful to challenge claims and even if they are verified ask if they are God's will or something else.
p.s. I like the name Non-Religious I am not into religion but into God as revealed through his Son, and our saviour Jesus Christ.
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non-religious
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I never said anything about the 12 disciples being the only ones who healed. I said post the time of the apostles. There came a point where signs and wonders ceased. They served a purpose, that being to authenticate both His ministry and authority. He did heal out of compassion, still does, but these so-called miracles that occur today and in recent times are born out of a desire to see God perform the miraculous above all else and the Bible is very clear about those that seek signs. I do not believe it happens. Toronto, Browsville, Howard Browne, Copeland, Hinn and a plethora of other so-called healing ministries are evidence enough that this stuff is dangerous and blatantly fraudulant.
That's my final word - peace
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Our_God_Reigns
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I , but these so-called miracles that occur today and in recent times are born out of a desire to see God perform the miraculous above all else and the Bible is very clear about those that seek signs. I do not believe it happens. Toronto, Browsville, Howard Browne, Copeland, Hinn and a plethora of other so-called healing ministries are evidence enough that this stuff is dangerous and blatantly fraudulant.
That's my final word - peace
You raise an excellant point about the great dangers of seeking signs. It is something that I feel strongly about too. I may disagree with you whether God performs miracles today through his people but that is minor in comparison to the thing that unites us.
I will that be my final word too and pray that God provides you with an overhelping of peace and blessings.
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Phinehas2
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non-religious,
I think one has to discern whether someone considers themselves a faith healer, or whether they believe God heals.
that’s true, forgive my assumption.
who said, and when are you suggesting? The NT indicates Jesus sent out his disciples to heal the sick and to make disciples teaching them to obey all he commanded, no indication that should stop.
I think one has to discern whether someone considers themselves a faith healer, or whether they believe God heals.
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