Karl Marx

simonpeter · Jul 1, 2010

Hi!

After reading so many posts on the singles forum and observing life and human behavior on so many levels, it has become apparent that Marx was right about the material world: all life is reduced to economics.

Take, for example, the standards that people set for people, especially when it comes to romance: he/she should be this, should not be that, should be nice and warm and a million other things. Yet all those standards fly out the window if the person were to be rich. Then you can be a creep but that's okay as long as you're rich!

If an average Joe, for example, does something immoral, he will be condemned by people from all sides. Yet, if a celebrity were to do far worse, the same judgmental people will vehemently defend celebrities and say 'leave them alone, they're people too' etc. etc. The rich could do no wrong, it would appear. :doh:

The same logic applies to many situations in life. Even when it comes to God and spirituality, I hear people say 'rich USA is blessed by God and poor Haiti is forever cursed' Even spirituality cannot escape the grasp of economics!

Put simply, everything in life has been reduced to economics, as Marx seems to have alleged: romance, religion, morality, you name it!

Was the great man right after all, at least about our material world? Is there anything in this world which isn't economic reductionism? Is the world a marketplace and are we merely commodities measuring our worth in terms of efficiency, skill and all that?

Simon Peter

AllForJesus · Jul 1, 2010

Well Jesus did say we can't serve two gods

Rory · Jul 1, 2010

Here is a picture of a man walking a fish... your argument is invalid...

broken_one · Jul 1, 2010

Ah, the excesses of an unchecked market.....

Karl Marx was a brilliant man, and probably the best thinker since Adam Smith in his field (philosophical economics). I don't think there's really been a successor since him that can rival that sort of thinking. The later people are reactionaries to his thinking (Lenin/Stalin/Hitler/Mussolini/Libertarians), not people coming up with their own stuff. As of yet, anyway.

But what are we to do? We've realized that communism es imposible. However we can still be Christian in a open-market system.

How's that?

Boom, Boom, Boom, and Boom.

PS. If you ever wondered why I don't hate Catholics in general, it's mainly because of that. Those letters truly have a divine and biblical spirit to them.

jameseb · Jul 1, 2010

Ya know, when I hear people today shouting, "Marx was right!" I tend to think of those people who flock to the street corners announcing the end of the world is nigh because a war broke out someplace.

Capitalist societies have out-survived and out-flourished every single nation that has tried to incorporate Marxist doctrines. Just ask the Marxist/Juche North Koreans how they're doing.

Inkachu · Jul 1, 2010

OP, your logic is flawed and untrue. Try again.

Dark_Lite · Jul 1, 2010

Communism doesn't work in practice. That being said, it doesn't mean Marx might have been right about other things. It just means his solution was completely wrong.

simonpeter · Jul 1, 2010

jameseb said:
Ya know, when I hear people today shouting, "Marx was right!" I tend to think of those people who flock to the street corners announcing the end of the world is nigh because a war broke out someplace.

Capitalist societies have out-survived and out-flourished every single nation that has tried to incorporate Marxist doctrines. Just ask the Marxist/Juche North Koreans how they're doing.

Slavery has been there for a longer time than democracy. Does that mean it is okay? Besides, North Koreans are as Marxist as the witch-hunters were Christian.

simonpeter · Jul 1, 2010

.Vicky. said:
OP, your logic is flawed and untrue. Try again.

I don't think so. The 'commodification' of man is an obvious fact.

simonpeter · Jul 1, 2010

Dark_Lite said:
Communism doesn't work in practice. That being said, it doesn't mean Marx might have been right about other things. It just means his solution was completely wrong.

Of course, of course, his solution is flawed. The present solution is working so well for humanity.

MicArmstrong · Jul 1, 2010

The elimination of private property does not even look good on paper.

Isambard · Jul 1, 2010

broken_one said:
Ah, the excesses of an unchecked market.....

Karl Marx was a brilliant man, and probably the best thinker since Adam Smith in his field (philosophical economics). I don't think there's really been a successor since him that can rival that sort of thinking. The later people are reactionaries to his thinking (Lenin/Stalin/Hitler/Mussolini/Libertarians), not people coming up with their own stuff. As of yet, anyway.

But what are we to do? We've realized that communism es imposible. However we can still be Christian in a open-market system.

How's that?

Boom, Boom, Boom, and Boom.

PS. If you ever wondered why I don't hate Catholics in general, it's mainly because of that. Those letters truly have a divine and biblical spirit to them.

Marx didn't advocate Communism, he argued that history would end there when man evolved to a mentality where the egalitarian spirit was universal.

Blackguard_ · Jul 1, 2010

Is there anything in this world which isn't economic reductionism?

Probably impossible to argue the point with you, as with the probably related notion of ethical egoism, you can just make up an unprovable just-so story about how any action that appears altruistic or uneconomic is actually motivated by selfishness and/or greed or economics somehow.

Also, I think you're painting with way too big of a brush. Would everybody really go for your rich creep? Does everybody say "rich USA is always blessed and poor Haiti is cursed forever"? Not everybody believes the prosperity gospel.

If an average Joe, for example, does something immoral, he will be condemned by people from all sides. Yet, if a celebrity were to do far worse, the same judgmental people will vehemently defend celebrities and say 'leave them alone, they're people too' etc. etc. The rich could do no wrong, it would appear.

What alternate bizzaro world are you living in? People bash on the rich and famous all the time, and there are magazines and tv shows dedicated to gossiping about celebrities. The rich and famous can do wrong. Heck, the bottom line of some rich and famous people even depends on it.

Now, people sometimes have double standards in this, but it seems to be more along political lines, i.e. it's "leave my guy's scandal alone, and jump on the other guy;s scandals" and family lines ("my little angel would never rob a Quik-E-Mart and shoot the clerk, no matter what the evidence and his mile long rap sheet says").

these people who will defend celebrities but not others, are they usually fans of theirs?

broken_one · Jul 1, 2010

Isambard said:
Marx didn't advocate Communism, he argued that history would end there when man evolved to a mentality where the egalitarian spirit was universal.

I actually made a mistake there.....I should have said that the only system we've seen so far that went off Marxist beliefs and was somewhat practical is Communism, and that did not work.

We all make errors. :holy:

BoarderDave · Jul 1, 2010

The apartment complex I live at is managed by a man named Carl Marx. We laughed when he introduced himself. Meaning he laughed too.. ^_^

NoodlesNoodlesNoodles · Jul 1, 2010

My first thought when seeing this thread title:

"I would not marry Karl Marx."

GQ Chris · Jul 1, 2010

Nakor said:
Here is a picture of a man walking a fish... your argument is invalid...

ROFL!!!

yeah, just what we need, somebody praising some of the most failed, oppressive philosophies ever. Yeah praise the communist manifesto, bring back the gulags and mass poverty and bread lines. :doh:

simonpeter · Jul 1, 2010

GQ Chris said:
ROFL!!!

yeah, just what we need, somebody praising some of the most failed, oppressive philosophies ever. Yeah praise the communist manifesto, bring back the gulags and mass poverty and bread lines.

One can say the same about Christianity: bring back witch hunting, inquisitions, and superstition. Hopefully, you see how foolish you are.

NoodlesNoodlesNoodles · Jul 1, 2010

Sketcher · Jul 2, 2010

simonpeter said:
Take, for example, the standards that people set for people, especially when it comes to romance: he/she should be this, should not be that, should be nice and warm and a million other things. Yet all those standards fly out the window if the person were to be rich. Then you can be a creep but that's okay as long as you're rich!

There is a single girl at my church whose family is very rich. She's not someone that I or anyone I know of finds desirable, and her family's money does not change that.

simonpeter said:
If an average Joe, for example, does something immoral, he will be condemned by people from all sides. Yet, if a celebrity were to do far worse, the same judgmental people will vehemently defend celebrities and say 'leave them alone, they're people too' etc. etc. The rich could do no wrong, it would appear.

Nonsense. I'm not seeing people defending celebrity sex tapes or drug habits. And I'm certainly not seeing people treat celebrities they hear about doing that sort of thing better than the average person who does the same thing. They're either non-judgmental toward both, or judgmental for both.

simonpeter said:
The same logic applies to many situations in life. Even when it comes to God and spirituality, I hear people say 'rich USA is blessed by God and poor Haiti is forever cursed' Even spirituality cannot escape the grasp of economics!

You heard one person who is know for putting his foot in his mouth and making false prophesies say that. And his or anyone else's opinion doesn't make what he said so.

Karl Marx

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