What if a murderer was going after someone, and threatened to kill a person if you didn't tell them? Would lying about where that person went be a sin?
Is lying, in every case, a sin?
- Thread starter winterbluebells
- Start date
I don't believe every false statement is a sin. "Lying" to a murder I would not consider a sin.
I know I lie in certain instances when the truth offers nothing positive. For example, I would reassure and comfort a child that everything will be just fine, even if I know their parent/loved one is not going to live for various reasons. What does explaining imminent death accomplish?
I lie about my well being too. At the office, someone asks how I'm doing. I always answer 'just fine'. My burdens shouldn't be put on them.
I've also lied about liking someone else's cooking. The truth is, I didn't like it. But I would accomplish nothing by telling them, other than maybe hurting them.
Obviously there is a very fine line between half truths and whole lies, but I think we inherently know the difference. However, I personally am prone to more mistakes than achievements, so perhaps my life is only to serve as an example not to follow.
I know I lie in certain instances when the truth offers nothing positive. For example, I would reassure and comfort a child that everything will be just fine, even if I know their parent/loved one is not going to live for various reasons. What does explaining imminent death accomplish?
I lie about my well being too. At the office, someone asks how I'm doing. I always answer 'just fine'. My burdens shouldn't be put on them.
I've also lied about liking someone else's cooking. The truth is, I didn't like it. But I would accomplish nothing by telling them, other than maybe hurting them.
Obviously there is a very fine line between half truths and whole lies, but I think we inherently know the difference. However, I personally am prone to more mistakes than achievements, so perhaps my life is only to serve as an example not to follow.
Upvote
0
AMR
Presbyterian (PCA) - Bona Fide Reformed
- Jun 19, 2009
- 6,715
- 912
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Presbyterian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
This is the classic "Nazis at the Door" scenario, asking if one is hiding any Jews in the house that they intend to kill.
I believe a good argument can be made from Scripture that not everyone is entitled to the truth, as in these sort of scenarios. That said, I have read equally compelling arguments that require the truth in all matters from the perspective that God has ordained all that happens and we should obey His commandments (thou shalt not lie or bear false witness), trusting in His providence.
In the end, your Christian conscience should be your guide.
AMR
Upvote
0
ChildOfGod97
Regular Member
Obviously not. [But very good question and a very important matter to think on.]
Was Joseph sinning when he wore a disguise to his brothers, put a cup in Benjamin's brother's satchel, and pretended to want to kill him in order to lure his father back?
Conversely, was Jacob right or wrong when he tricked his father into taking Esau's inheritance?
Is even the usage of the word "conversely" above rhetorically deceptive in order to have someone lean to the conclusion that Jacob's deception was wrong, assuming any reader would be forced to come to the conclusion that Joseph was not wrong in what he did?
Was Solomon wrong when he decided the case of the ownership of the baby between the two mothers by lying about his intentions to cut the baby in two?
Are these the same sort of lies Satan told Eve, which ended up in the murder of Adam and Eve?
Are actors liars? Are fiction writers liars?
One of the more puzzling challenges in this regards is the following verse:
1 Kings 22
Are actors liars? Are fiction writers? Is it a lying conspiracy to tell our children, collectively, that there is a Santa Claus or Easter Bunny?
Is Jack Bauer a liar when he goes undercover?
Another good one is in Jonah.
Jonah 3
Nineveh ended up not being destroyed in forty days, just as Jonah had feared -- and attempted to run away from.
Could it have been Jonah did not preach the message God gave to him even after Jonah witnessed first hand such punishment of disobedience?
Or would it have been immoral for God to have given Jonah that message which he may have relayed honestly and directly to Nineveh, where God knew that message of repentance could be used to help turn Nineveh?
God did, after all, also surely turn the hearts of the Ninevites and get them to believe Jonah's message... just as Jonah seemed aware God could do.
Then, what of this verse?
Jeremiah 18
The above is exactly what Jonah did. He announced Nineveh would be uprooted and destroyed, Nineveh repented, and God reversed, relenting on the disaster He had planned for it.
In general, I find it is very important to seek the truth, and in seeking the truth we have to get around "what is not truth" very often. God is The Truth, and this is a central part of our belief: but what does that mean, exactly?
I find rarely can I second guess blunt honesty. I can not trust myself to be so smart to do otherwise.
Our 'hearts are deceptive above all else', so how can we be sure of anything, if we rely on something like lying? Clearly there is an evil form of lying and a not evil form.
Upvote
0
ChildOfGod97
Regular Member
... continued from previous post...
We also see where people lie about others, viciously slandering them in their hearts, and 'from the overflow of the heart comes the words of the mouth'. No wonder Jesus said to judge rightly and with mercy others.
Very often it is difficult to judge mercifully, to not jump to conclusions, and to be willing to lift up others in our own hearts... and resist putting them down in our hearts -- look at how many contemptuously consider most of the world's population as being essentially evil. Yet, Scripture says they are. But "how" and "in what way", and what of all the Christians of whom it is said "they are good".
These are all tough, important questions and matters I think are good to consider carefully.
We see this in the world a lot. Where people rely on lying to get their way.
We also see where people lie about others, viciously slandering them in their hearts, and 'from the overflow of the heart comes the words of the mouth'. No wonder Jesus said to judge rightly and with mercy others.
Very often it is difficult to judge mercifully, to not jump to conclusions, and to be willing to lift up others in our own hearts... and resist putting them down in our hearts -- look at how many contemptuously consider most of the world's population as being essentially evil. Yet, Scripture says they are. But "how" and "in what way", and what of all the Christians of whom it is said "they are good".
These are all tough, important questions and matters I think are good to consider carefully.
Upvote
0
ezeric
HE loves me too.
- Mar 2, 2010
- 2,262
- 166
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
All lying just like all anger isn't sin.
As mentioned by RejectReality & ChildofGod97 there were and are times both in the Bible and (in our own lives) where its not a sin!
But how do we know, when is it a sin and when is it not?
Now Rahab the prostitute in Joshua 2 lied to her government (and could have been killed) if you read the first few verses of Joshua 2.
She blantanly lies to government police (or what we would consider 'official' people).
Yet she is lifted up and praised in Hebrews 11:31 and a great great grandmother of JESUS
see Matthew 1:5 (also see James 2:25).
Rahab was hiding spies.
We have all known about Corrie Ten Boon and her family hiding Jews during those terrible, evil, dark days of Hitler.
Sin only becomes what it is (like in lying) if its not for the 'well being' of the other person.
Love always protects (1 Corinthians 13).
Love is the standard or benchmark.
A mother with her baby in arms wouldn't let a kidnapper take her child from her, she would probably fight to death to protect her little one. Is that sin? or Love?
Because it can only be 1 or the other.
JESUS got angry some times (moneychangers, Pharisees)
And scripture many times calls anger a sin!
See 2 Corinthians 12:20
also Ephesians 4:31 and Colossians 3:8
How do we know?
We tell our 2 boys that most of the time anger and lying is sin, because all it does is try to defend self or make me look better. it defends the sin nature (the "I") in me.
Which is the nature of Satan.
If you are defending GOD or saving people (out of love) then its not sin to lie.
The lie (if I can put it that way) must be spoken in love (what is best - not for me, but for the other person).
Interesting side note, one scripture says :
Ephesians 4:26
"In your anger do not sin" : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry"
So its possible to have 'righteous anger' or 'right anger' and I think we see that from time to time especially over in-justices in the world - gets us angry.
Or someone controlling, manipulating someone - could cause us anger.
Why?
Its not the best for that individual - its not love.
Same with a lie. How does it better the situation if I speak it? How will it build you up, or encourage or bless you? That is the question!
Love covers a multitude of sins! 1 Peter 4:8
-Eric
As mentioned by RejectReality & ChildofGod97 there were and are times both in the Bible and (in our own lives) where its not a sin!
But how do we know, when is it a sin and when is it not?
Now Rahab the prostitute in Joshua 2 lied to her government (and could have been killed) if you read the first few verses of Joshua 2.
She blantanly lies to government police (or what we would consider 'official' people).
Yet she is lifted up and praised in Hebrews 11:31 and a great great grandmother of JESUS
see Matthew 1:5 (also see James 2:25).
Rahab was hiding spies.
We have all known about Corrie Ten Boon and her family hiding Jews during those terrible, evil, dark days of Hitler.
Sin only becomes what it is (like in lying) if its not for the 'well being' of the other person.
Love always protects (1 Corinthians 13).
Love is the standard or benchmark.
A mother with her baby in arms wouldn't let a kidnapper take her child from her, she would probably fight to death to protect her little one. Is that sin? or Love?
Because it can only be 1 or the other.
JESUS got angry some times (moneychangers, Pharisees)
And scripture many times calls anger a sin!
See 2 Corinthians 12:20
also Ephesians 4:31 and Colossians 3:8
How do we know?
We tell our 2 boys that most of the time anger and lying is sin, because all it does is try to defend self or make me look better. it defends the sin nature (the "I") in me.
Which is the nature of Satan.
If you are defending GOD or saving people (out of love) then its not sin to lie.
The lie (if I can put it that way) must be spoken in love (what is best - not for me, but for the other person).
Interesting side note, one scripture says :
Ephesians 4:26
"In your anger do not sin" : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry"
So its possible to have 'righteous anger' or 'right anger' and I think we see that from time to time especially over in-justices in the world - gets us angry.
Or someone controlling, manipulating someone - could cause us anger.
Why?
Its not the best for that individual - its not love.
Same with a lie. How does it better the situation if I speak it? How will it build you up, or encourage or bless you? That is the question!
Love covers a multitude of sins! 1 Peter 4:8
-Eric
Upvote
0
ChildOfGod97
Regular Member
My brother recently did the very same thing, and continues to do it.
I have to wonder if this is not by the same spirit.
His belief seems to be there is no truth because we believe what we believe according to our preferences. But, Jesus said He is the truth.
While it is true we do shape much, we do not reshape all of reality, for it is held together by the will of the Father.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
