I am on a quest to find Christ's church. In Matt 16:18 Jesus says: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
Where is his church? I have been looking at history and cannot seem to find his church. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against it so it should still be around today starting from when Jesus said this and never ceasing to exist.
I do not belive his church to be the Catholic church. The Catholic church has too many things setup against the bible's teaching. One example:
1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Dre
SO, you think Jesus lied?
He said that the gates of hell shall NEVER prevail.
You seem to think they have, though.
I always believed that if Luther had read the Didache, he would have remained Catholic. . .
Here Is Why you should Consider the Catholic Faith:
The Early Church Fathers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Early Church Fathers were the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, etc. In short they were the Christian leaders who took charge of the Church following the death of the 12 apostles. They were not only taught by the 12 apostles, they were also first-hand witnesses to the creation of the Church worldwide. Most, if not all, were martyred by being crucified, beheaded, fed to the lions at the Roman Coliseum, boiled in oil, or skinned alive. They were the ones empowered by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13 and 1 John 4:6), and who personally handed on the oral teaching of Jesus Christ, before the New Testament canon was created by the Catholic Church in the late 4th century, at the councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage. One of the great early ones, St. Clement, is actually mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3.
None of these early Church Fathers just stood up and started preaching on his own.
They followed the Biblical model in Acts of “being sent” (Romans 10:15). Who sent them? Jesus sent the 12 apostles (“as the Father sent me, so I send you”
. The 12 apostles then laid hands on others and sent them (Acts 6:6). This apostolic tradition has been followed for 2000 years by the Catholic Church, who continuously lays hands on new disciples in every generation since Jesus walked the earth, and then sends them to the four corners of the earth to preach the good news of Jesus Christ, to forgive sins in His Name, and to bring Jesus in the Eucharist to us all. We, the members of the 21rst Century, owe these early Church Fathers a lot of gratitude, because they died horrible deaths in order to preserve and to hand on the Word of God to us today.
A lot of Protestants ignore these early Christian leaders, preferring instead to believe that the history of Christianity began with Jesus and the 12 apostles, and then somehow skipped over 15 centuries to Martin Luther. That would be like saying that the history of the United States began with George Washington in 1776, and then skipped over to Franklin Roosevelt in 1932. For some reason, a lot of Protestants will refuse to read any of the writings of the early Church Fathers, proudly proclaiming to everyone that “Those writings are not in my Bible!” But they will read the writings of Martin Luther, Billy Graham, and Max Lucado, even though those aren’t in the Bible either! They will even read and believe the heretical "Left Behind" books of LaHeye and Jenkins (there is no "secret" rapture of believers mentioned anywhere in the bible. When it happens, according to the bible, there will be trumpet blasts, and every eye will see Jesus). The writings of the early Church Fathers elucidate what is taught in the Bible, so that it’s no mystery whether or not the Eucharist is the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, whether or not Mary is the new Eve, or whether or not there is a purgatory. After all, the early Church Fathers were taught by the 12 apostles, handed on the faith to the next generation, and were then martyred for their actions! Why someone would trust more in the writings of people coming along 15 centuries later over their writings is very strange indeed.
So don't get trapped in the Protestant philosophy that actually says that if it isn't in the Bible, then it can't possibly be true. If that were truly the case, then none of Martin Luther's writings can be seen as true, because they aren't in the Bible either! Take the time to read what our Catholic martyred ancestors had to say. After all, we are all united through time and space in the Eucharist. St. John says in his gospel that if we eat the body of Christ and drink His blood, then Christ abides in us, and we in Him! And because we are all united in Christ, we are all united with each other.
And once non-Catholic Christians start to read these writings of the early Church Fathers, they will soon discover that there were NO Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Mormons, Episcopaleans, etc., anywhere in the Early Church. Those traditions of men were all started centuries later, based on what people thought Jesus' Church was all about, rather than on what it actually was.
If you are a seeker of the Truth, please take the time to read the following documents:
1.)
Epistle of Clement (who was a disciple of Peter), the 4th Bishop of Rome, to Corinth (96 AD)
He wrote the letter to settle a small schism in Corinth.
Chapters of particular interest:
Chapter 40. Let Us Preserve in the Church the Order Appointed by God.
Chapter 41. (Continuation of the Same Subject.)
Chapter 42. The Order of Ministers in the Church.
Chapter 44. The Ordinances of the Apostles, that There Might Be No Contention Respecting the Priestly Office.
Chapter 59. Warning Against Disobedience. Prayer.
First sentence of Ch.59: "If, however, any shall disobey the words spoken by Him through us[Rome], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and serious danger."
What makes this letter all the more amazing was that
the Apostle John was STILL alive. . .and he lived CLOSER than Rome! (John died in 100 AD)
Yet, the Church sends to Rome-hmm, wonder why. . .
2.)
The Didache, also known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (80 AD)
3.)
Epistle of Polycarp (was a disciple/ordained as a Bishop by the Apostle John)
4.)
7 Epistles of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch (also a disciple of John)
To the Ephesians
To the Magnesians
Letter to the Trallians
To the Romans
To the Philadelphians
To the Smyrnaeans
To Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some quotes of Early Church Fathers:
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his [bishop's] approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid. — Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist [Lord's Supper] and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. — Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1
The Didache (80 AD):
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
Chapter 8. Concerning Fasting and Prayer (the Lord's Prayer)
But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week; but fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday). Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one; for Yours is the power and the glory for ever. Thrice in the day thus pray.
Chapter 9. The Thanksgiving (Eucharist)
Now concerning the Thanksgiving (Eucharist), thus give thanks. First, concerning the cup: We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David Your servant, which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory for ever. And concerning the broken bread: We thank You, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You made known to us through Jesus Your Servant; to You be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Your Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Your kingdom; for Yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever. But let no one eat or drink of your Thanksgiving (Eucharist), but they who have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs.
"The blessed Apostles, then, founded and built up the church in Rome. They committed the office of bishop into the hands of Linus. Of this, Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus. After him, in the third place from the Apostles, Clement was allotted the office of bishop." St. Irenaeus, "Against All Heresies," c. 180 A.D.
"If, however, any shall disobey the words spoken by Him [the LORD] through us[Rome], let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and serious danger."
[Bishop of Rome] St. Clement, Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 59 (96 AD).
"With [the Church of Rome], because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree... and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition."
Irenaeus' Against Heresies (3:3:2) 180 AD
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arguments against the Protestant Sola Scripture (Scripture Only):
1.) What did the Christians use BEFORE the New Testament was written? (The earliest book is Galatians, written around 49 AD)
2.) Why do Protestants accept the books of the NT in the first place? It was, after all,
the Church that
canonized the books in the fourth century! By accepting the books chosen for the New Testament,
you are accepting Church authority without even realizing it!!
3.) Many Protestants claim that the Church fell into apostasy by the early 300s, and that they incorporated idolatry. If this
is true, why would the Church accept books (in a council in 397) which
contradicted what it supposedly taught?
That would be like Martin Luther King Jr. accepting the writings of the KKK!
It wouldn't make any sense!!
4.) Jesus said, ". . .if they refuse to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax collector."
What do you
think this "church" Jesus spoke of was like?
5.) The Bible is based on the Church-
NOT the other way around!
6.) Just because something is not mentioned in the Bible, it does not mean it isn't true.
The authors of the NT were writing to Christians, not non-Christians. They took for
granted the fact that their intended audiences
already knew about apostolic succession, the sacraments, etc.
Paul, in Hebrews, even refers to these things as "basic doctrines."
"Therefore, let us leave the elementary doctrines of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6)
In other words, the Bible teaches us how to
live as Christians-
not how to
become a Christian!
7.) How can a Protestant determine what is or isn't a heresy? They can't. Satan has found the perfect doctrine to cause division-sola scriptura!
Everyone becomes his own teacher, his own priest, his own pope. That is NOT how God established His Church!!! Sola Scriptura is the epitome of pride!
Obedience is a virtue!
But who is a protestant obedient to? Any teacher that tells them what they want to hear?
Protestants claim that the Bible is the sole absolute of the faith-yet, in a sad twist of irony, it has become the center of relativism! Everyone reads it as they see fit!
You wanna talk about "what is or isn't in the Bible"? Okay, fine!
Where does it say to "pick your own doctrines"?
Where does it say to "be divided"?
Where does it say to "interpret as you please"?
