Is this Idolatry?

DD2008 said:

If you do it by faith in a Mary that you can't see because she isn't on earth and think that praying to her will somehow be of more benefit than just trusting God with your prayer, I would say yes.

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Rdr Iakovos said:

I also know a Protestant who believes that he is one of the two witnesses from Revelation

Let's appeal to the heart and center, not the edges of our respective traditions.

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benedictaoo said:

I'm not trusting her over God Dave, I am trusting her over you. Her prayers are far more powerful before the throne of God then yours or mine or anyones, will ever be.

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benedictaoo said:

and this is the true break down here. they just do not know what an act of worship is. It is not having a conversation and loving someone who is in heaven. and it is not kneeling before a statue.

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Originally Posted by archierieus

Stephen had no power to forgive those stoning him. His prayer asking God to have mercy on them, essentially, was similar to Moses pleading with God not to destroy Israel. Moses had no power to cancel the guilt of the people, but he could ask God to hold off on threatened judgments.

Only the Lawgiver could forgive violations of His law.

Dave
​

So I don't understand why you think asking others to pray for us is wrong

and Christ taught that we should forgive others 70 x 7 ...

I really don't understand what you're getting at ...
__________________

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damaeli said:

Sorry you don't implore you family and friends to mediate for you.
Why don't you believe they can mediate/pray for you?

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benedictaoo said:

they believe they can for the sole reason they are alive on earth and not in heaven before the throne of God face to face.

the saints who are before the throne day and night, face to face, they are useless.

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Secundulus said:

The scripture doesn't speak of cleansing. It speaks of atonement.

""Then Aaron shall offer the bull of the sin offering which is for himself and make atonement for himself and for his household, and he shall slaughter the bull of the sin offering which is for himself. "He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the Lord and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. "He shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die. "Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; also in front of the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times. "Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat. "He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and thus he shall do for the tent of meeting which abides with them in the midst of their impurities. "When he goes in to make atonement in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel." (Leviticus 16:11-17, NASB95)

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archierieus said:

Penance often includes saying Hail Mary's. In the cathedral here, the bishop grants indulgences to those who say 20 Hail Mary's a day for three years--and not just for the one praying, but for all the family! Do that, and you and your family will skip purgatory upon death and go straight to heaven--so the bishop promises.

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Secundulus said:

I heard of a lady in my town that said that the King James Bible was the only correct one because that's the one that Jesus used.

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&Abel said:

news flash, Mary is deserving of death without her son

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archierieus said:

Stephen had no power to forgive those stoning him. His prayer asking God to have mercy on them, essentially, was similar to Moses pleading with God not to destroy Israel. Moses had no power to cancel the guilt of the people, but he could ask God to hold off on threatened judgments.

Only the Lawgiver could forgive violations of His law.

Dave

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But why, �pray tell� would you ask? Glad you did because many believe it was Shakespeare who coined this phrase. It's a very beautiful old phrase from medieval England and used in the proper context it�s poetic, lively and powerful.

Shakespeare�s The Tempest - "Heaven thank you, my dear father," said Miranda "Now pray tell me, sir, your reason for raising this sea-storm?"

Shakespeare�s Merchant of Venice also shows the use of the phrase
�The thoughts of others! Pray you, tell me this;�

Cardinal Wolseley - "Pray, tell 'em thus much from me"

Alexander Pope �Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?�

Before the 13th century, the word was "preien" or to ask earnestly/beg. The old French word "preier" came from the Latin "precari." Prayer also came from the Latin word "prex." From "precari" came precarious which originally meant to be achieved through the asking. Precarious entered the English language in the 17th century. Later we used it as begging a favour in the asking.

The usage of "pray" was common in medieval England. It meant please. Earlier writings used "prithee", short for "I pray thee".

Example of meaning - "pray tell"

"Pray tell but whom dost thou wish to deceive?
In the leaving of thee no soul shall grieve." Alatea http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/54888

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Rdr Iakovos said:

My bad- it was your wife on Recon then. Keeping the world safe for 5 solas.

LOL @ "we have it somewhere here in the files." You folks like the Protestant NSA?

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archierieus said:

Mr. Chairman, I have here in my possession a file which has the names of known sympathizers, and evidence of a plot . . .

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Rdr Iakovos said:

Ithink I know her- isn't she the one that mutters to herself alot and has like 47 cats living with her in her single-wide?

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Secundulus said:

So are the rest of us.

But, did God choose you to be the Mother of his Son?

Do you think God chose Mary at random in a sort of divine lottery?

Why did he choose Mary over all other women?

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