Christians who supported Bush..you were used

JoshuaW · Nov 10, 2008

Christians, have you realized yet that the Bush administration used you to get elected? You were not following some vision of George Bush, you were following a plot hatched by Karl Rove.

There is more to "values" than abortion and opposition to gay rights. True values for a nation include protecting your citizens, respecting other cultures, wisely commanding the men and women in uniform, and acting as a beacon for human rights.

There is no issue that balances the un-American policies that the Bush administration has enacted.If your government is torturing people and standing by while its soldiers are killed, then its position on abortion is irrelevant.

The Bush administration has destroyed America's reputation and standing in the world, and it was made possible by Christians who voted for Bush using faith instead of reason. You may not agree with some of Obama's personal beliefs, but Christians have more in common with him than they ever did with Bush.

Will you support the new administration as they seek to repair America, or will you try to undermine Obama's goals and side with the diminishing group of conservatives who, even now, are plotting to reclaim power? They will promise you a return of Christian "values", but you have seen what baggage and horrors those values bring. Will you fixate on one or two issues of the Christian agenda, or will you act as Jesus commanded, adding your efforts and your faith to the healing of America?

Douger · Nov 10, 2008

A lot of what you're saying is very true. Personally, I don't think I'll be as disillusioned over Obama as I was over Bush, as I have few, if any illusions connecting Obama to Christianity.
(Funny, spell check keeps putting a red line under Obama. I bet a lot of software companies will be releasing patches shortly

)

JoshuaW · Nov 11, 2008

Douger said:
A lot of what you're saying is very true. Personally, I don't think I'll be as disillusioned over Obama as I was over Bush, as I have few, if any illusions connecting Obama to Christianity.

And yet, I would bet that Obama follows the teaching of Christ much more than Bush ever did.
But I wonder what it would take in the future to fool Christians into voting. They (we) are quite gullible, frequently following pastors who are obvious charlatans. It seems that anyone who mouths a few coded phrases can win the loyalty of evangelicals, and they don't stop to think that maybe they were fooled.

BlessEwe · Nov 11, 2008

JoshuaW said:
And yet, I would bet that Obama follows the teaching of Christ much more than Bush ever did.
But I wonder what it would take in the future to fool Christians into voting. They (we) are quite gullible, frequently following pastors who are obvious charlatans. It seems that anyone who mouths a few coded phrases can win the loyalty of evangelicals, and they don't stop to think that maybe they were fooled.

There are many sad to say who don't understand politics on their own, nor take the time to really find the truth out for themselves.
They only watch certain shows ect. to bring them the current events. With this said there will always be scammers trying to gain money or power, and take advantage.

marshlewis · Nov 12, 2008

Obama?... sounds hindo.

MorkandMindy · Nov 12, 2008

BlessEwe said:
There are many sad to say who don't understand politics on their own, nor take the time to really find the truth out for themselves.
They only watch certain shows etc. to bring them the current events. With this said there will always be scammers trying to gain money or power, and take advantage.

For an American to gain an understanding of true politics is about as easy as it is for a fish to explore Mount Everest. But it can be done.

What I did was to pick only two items in politics and investigate those two very thoroughly.

Those gave an idea of how politics works.

Then I spent a long time getting an overall understanding of the economics, and that drives about half of the things that happen.

The other forces are public opinion which is heavily influenced by the media, and the rich and powerful who control a lot of the media and have direct links with many politicians.

I still only understand a limited amount of it, sort of a minimal basis where I can say if we elect McCain the nation is finished, and with Obama at best we are in for a hard time because the nation is close to bankruptcy.

TuxThePenguin · Nov 12, 2008

Douger said:
(Funny, spell check keeps putting a red line under Obama. I bet a lot of software companies will be releasing patches shortly )

Can you not right click and 'add to dictionary' ?

Douger · Nov 14, 2008

TuxThePenguin said:
Can you not right click and 'add to dictionary' ?

Oh dear, now I feel silly :doh:

Thanks though.

MorkandMindy · Nov 14, 2008

Douger said:
Oh dear, now I feel silly

Thanks though.

Also worth knowing (this applies to Word 97) if you accidentally add an incorrect werd you can take it out of your dictionary by going through the menu options:

Tools > Options > Spelling and Gramar > Spelling > Dictionaries > CUSTOM.DIC > Edit

MorkandMindy · Nov 14, 2008

BlessEwe said:
There are many sad to say who don't understand politics on their own, nor take the time to really find the truth out for themselves.
They only watch certain shows ect. to bring them the current events. With this said there will always be scammers trying to gain money or power, and take advantage.

As I see it politics is about 10% diplomacy which can include fairly aggressive posturing or just plain a meeting of minds and development of trust as happened quite unpredictably with Reagan and Gorby.

And morality and economics.

Take for example the justification for there even being a Republican party. The Republicans say the Democrats are too soft on everything, that crime just skyrockets when Democrats are in charge as in New York and falls in the Republican Bible Belt areas like Texas and Mississippi. They also say the Democrats are financially irresponsible, spend too much and so vote in the Republicans to save money and get things back in order.

That is an argument about morality and economics.

And it is entirely incorrect:

Serious crime is more prevalent in the Bible Belt and Republican states, and the economy has been in a long slide ever since Reagan despite what the media say.

The data is readily available, I've posted it so many times I've run out of drawing pins (that's English for 'thumb tacks').

SouthernPlanter · Nov 15, 2008

So if Bush used us, we should turn to Obama who uses us even more? No thanks. In fact, that picture of Obama is disgusting.

JoyJuice · Nov 15, 2008

SouthernPlanter said:
So if Bush used us, we should turn to Obama who uses us even more? No thanks. In fact, that picture of Obama is disgusting.

No one is suggesting where you should turn.

If you want to turn more inward to become more vulnerable and irrelevant that is up to you. I know faith blinds reality, but a lot of Christians have taken a step back and awaken from the obvious. America is becoming less and less homogeneous as the demographics change. The one trick pony of using faith to ascend to power is rightly declining. Christians are free to turn to who they wish, just do it with eyes a little more wide open and beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. Obama was put in a position where he had to defend his faith, not one of wearing it on his sleeve for the sake of votes.

Sphere · Nov 15, 2008

JoyJuice said:
Obama was put in a position where he had to defend his faith, not one of wearing it on his sleeve for the sake of votes.

Exactly, and Obama prevailed even though his faith had been wrongly attacked, and he won because he was in touch with the American people. Something that the GOP is lacking.

Chamdar · Jan 18, 2009

While we're on this subject, it is interesting how much things change within just a generation.
I remember when I attended Sunday school at a evangelical Christian church of the Rapture-believing, premillennial dispensationalist variety around the time George H. W. Bush was running for office, and he wasn't particularly well-liked by much of the congregation. Not only was he seen as lukewarm and too much of an internationalist, but he was also a Skull & Bones and CFR member (and he would become synonymous with the phrase "new world order" just a few years later).
So they supported other candidates who were running that same year, like Pat Robertson. Some of even backed Al Gore, who--despite the tree-hugging liberal image he has now--was actually quite conservative back then (not to mention that many Southern evangelicals were still Democrats at the time). When Bush, Sr. got the nomination, most of them held their noses and voted for him, but they weren't too happy about it.

And yet over a decade later, people at this same church and evangelicals in general would fall in love with his son George W. Bush, even though he is also a Skull & Bones man and still committed to the idea of a new world order (albeit with the U.S.A. nominally leading it). So I'm wondering what exactly changed their opinion of the Bush family.

JoshuaW · Jan 19, 2009

My goodness, how did you dig up this old thread?
What changed was that Ralph Reed huddled with Karl Rove to deliver the votes and enthusiasm of the Christian right. Reed had an impressive mailing list left over from the Christian Coalition, millions of names of supporters and donors. Rove knew the list could swing quite a few states if only they could be persuaded that Bush was God's chosen candidate. So they worked through preachers, and Bush's campaign suddenly became a sermon topic across the South and Midwest. When all those believers agreed that voting for Bush would put God in the White House, the mission was accomplished.

Foolish_Fool · Jan 19, 2009

You would think that people would have figured out that leaders use religion to manipulate them after the first few millenia.

jamesrwright3 · Jan 19, 2009

I will support Obama, but I will not support any of his policies I disagree with..which means nearly everything.

JustOneWay · Jan 19, 2009

Foolish_Fool said:
You would think that people would have figured out that leaders use religion to manipulate them after the first few millenia.

America figured it out by not allowing the government to adhere to any religious doctrine, yet to this day the constitution is still under attack.

JoshuaW · Jan 19, 2009

Cheney and Rumsfeld, two criminal masterminds who could never get people to vote for them, selected George Bush as the candidate precisely because he seemed friendly, pious and harmless. He also seemed dumb enough to not notice while they wove their elaborate schemes. Bush enjoyed the food, the jet and the pampering while others subverted the laws, the Constitution and the military to gain personal profit. Far from putting God in the White House, the Christian vote pretty much put Satan in the White House.

jamesrwright3 · Jan 19, 2009

JoshuaW said:
Cheney and Rumsfeld, two criminal masterminds who could never get people to vote for them, s
LOL Cheney was elected to Congress every time he ran..and so was Rumsfeld.

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