Abusive Relationships and what is Biblically Proper
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brotherjim
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Dear Sister Evee,
Sorry for the delay - at times it can even be much longer.
You said:
Brotherjim thanks for verifying that divorced people are forgiven.
-----------------
Your welcome, but it's not MY verification. The Word is clear as to God's ability to forgive all except "blaspheming the Holy Ghost," and there's much divison within the church as to what that entails.
You said:
My question if God forgives this why stay and put up with it.
---------------------------
You are taking a truth that applies to something after the fact, and attempting to apply it to potential sin.
We are commanded to stay married, unless we have an unbelieving spouse who leaves us (and I don't think the Lord feels when we intentionally do things to make a spouse leave, that that qualifies). Even in cases of dissertion, I've heard many testimonies of people over the years who still felt led to remain single and then God had their mate return. This is why EVERY situation must be led of the Lord. The written Word is there "just" to confirm whether or not what the Spirit told us is truly in line with God's will - and therefor was truly the Spirit's leading in the first place.
(Also, our OPINION of who is or is not an UNbelieving spouse , usually based upon someone's behavior - not the proper qualifier, does not count. Only God can reveal in the spirit realm, who is or is not truly born-again, and He rarely does this when we hold a sinful judgment of someone. based on circumstances, in our heart.)
In Romans, when God through Paul talks generally about sin, after the forgiveness of Grace is explained, the comeback is, "What then, shall we sin so that Grace abounds all the more?" The answer, of course, is no.
AFTER someone is already divorced, forgiveness is available. If, on the other hand, we PURSUE divorce because we know beforehand that God will forgive us, is another matter entirely - known as willful sin and very dangerous.
Also, although divorce is forgiven, if it wasn't according to the will of the Spirit, there's ALWAYS a great price to be paid. So even though God will forgive it when committed, there will be things suffered in the natural realm as a CONSEQUENCE to the sin.
Even a murderer is forgiven, but he will still likely pay with years in prison or by them being executed - not to mention a possible lifetime of guilt.
As a personal testimony, my unbelieving wife left me, but I waited five years, until she was remarried, until I gave up on her possible return. I say this not to boast - it was ALL God's Grace - but simply as testimony to the fact I walked away from that relationship with absolutely no baggage whatsoever. It was more than worth every day of those 5 years.
But this is not to say others should do the same. I did what I did because that's what the Lord made me do. Others may be "called to peace" much sooner, while others be told to wait even beyond the point their ex remarries. What God says goes, as long as it's NOT AGAINST the written Word.
Love you sis, jim
Sorry for the delay - at times it can even be much longer.
You said:
Brotherjim thanks for verifying that divorced people are forgiven.
-----------------
Your welcome, but it's not MY verification. The Word is clear as to God's ability to forgive all except "blaspheming the Holy Ghost," and there's much divison within the church as to what that entails.
You said:
My question if God forgives this why stay and put up with it.
---------------------------
You are taking a truth that applies to something after the fact, and attempting to apply it to potential sin.
We are commanded to stay married, unless we have an unbelieving spouse who leaves us (and I don't think the Lord feels when we intentionally do things to make a spouse leave, that that qualifies). Even in cases of dissertion, I've heard many testimonies of people over the years who still felt led to remain single and then God had their mate return. This is why EVERY situation must be led of the Lord. The written Word is there "just" to confirm whether or not what the Spirit told us is truly in line with God's will - and therefor was truly the Spirit's leading in the first place.
(Also, our OPINION of who is or is not an UNbelieving spouse , usually based upon someone's behavior - not the proper qualifier, does not count. Only God can reveal in the spirit realm, who is or is not truly born-again, and He rarely does this when we hold a sinful judgment of someone. based on circumstances, in our heart.)
In Romans, when God through Paul talks generally about sin, after the forgiveness of Grace is explained, the comeback is, "What then, shall we sin so that Grace abounds all the more?" The answer, of course, is no.
AFTER someone is already divorced, forgiveness is available. If, on the other hand, we PURSUE divorce because we know beforehand that God will forgive us, is another matter entirely - known as willful sin and very dangerous.
Also, although divorce is forgiven, if it wasn't according to the will of the Spirit, there's ALWAYS a great price to be paid. So even though God will forgive it when committed, there will be things suffered in the natural realm as a CONSEQUENCE to the sin.
Even a murderer is forgiven, but he will still likely pay with years in prison or by them being executed - not to mention a possible lifetime of guilt.
As a personal testimony, my unbelieving wife left me, but I waited five years, until she was remarried, until I gave up on her possible return. I say this not to boast - it was ALL God's Grace - but simply as testimony to the fact I walked away from that relationship with absolutely no baggage whatsoever. It was more than worth every day of those 5 years.
But this is not to say others should do the same. I did what I did because that's what the Lord made me do. Others may be "called to peace" much sooner, while others be told to wait even beyond the point their ex remarries. What God says goes, as long as it's NOT AGAINST the written Word.
Love you sis, jim
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Evee
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Thanks Brotherjim, I appreciate your answer and it does seem that divorced people has a lot of baggage when they remarry.
Almost everyone I know has been divorced and remarried.
I have to admit it is trading one set of problems for another.
I agree we may be forgiven but there is still a price to pay. Evee
Almost everyone I know has been divorced and remarried.
I have to admit it is trading one set of problems for another.
I agree we may be forgiven but there is still a price to pay. Evee
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Knight
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My, this has grown since I was last here.
I'm not condoning abuse by any means nor am I condemning those who divorce as a result of abuse. My concern is this:
I've read many theories, opinions and ideas on this thread but I've not read a whole lot of Scripture on this subject. There is a danger when we start altering or approaching the Word of God with presuppositions. There is further danger when we rely on our own feelings in matters of doctrine.
I know what the Bible says about divorce. I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry. It is also permissable if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer.
I would argue against the idea that it's ok to divorce knowing that God will forgive you for it.
Matthew 5:31-32
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Romans 6: 1-3
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
This is what God's Word says. I would never encourage someone to stay in an abusive marriage where their life may be in danger. As I and others have said, it is permissable to remove yourself and your children from this dangerous situation.
I'm not condoning abuse by any means nor am I condemning those who divorce as a result of abuse. My concern is this:
I've read many theories, opinions and ideas on this thread but I've not read a whole lot of Scripture on this subject. There is a danger when we start altering or approaching the Word of God with presuppositions. There is further danger when we rely on our own feelings in matters of doctrine.
I know what the Bible says about divorce. I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry. It is also permissable if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer.
I would argue against the idea that it's ok to divorce knowing that God will forgive you for it.
Matthew 5:31-32
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Romans 6: 1-3
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
This is what God's Word says. I would never encourage someone to stay in an abusive marriage where their life may be in danger. As I and others have said, it is permissable to remove yourself and your children from this dangerous situation.
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Me personally, have never said divorce is necessarily wrong in this case. but Biblically you can't get married, as far as i understand. I don't understand why people think God would not want this.
I can only empathize with someone in this state. I probably can't even come close to understanding how hard it is. I didn't start this thread to have a snub nose to people and point out the Bible to them. Its a hard issue. But an issue that seems to need more pressing concern that i think people take. Why? Because the Bible says God hates divorce.
Now i have taken this thread from a Christian view for Christians. I am not basing this thread on Non-Christians in these matters. How can you hold someone to these guidelines if they are lost. They are not Christian so it is not my place to say they can't remarry. They can remarry. Because they are not Christian. If a divorce person becomes a Christian, all the things in their life have become new again. They can get remarried. But a Christian who gets married to another Christians or becomes a Christian though their spouse is not needs to understand the value of that other person to God. At the same time, if their spouse becomes abusive, there needs to be outlets for them in the church already established. I don't know what that would be except to go to the pastor to try to bring accountability to the abuser, whether Christian or not. All abusers should be required to attend accountability couseling for a very long time. Years.
Besides, all christians ought to be accountable to someone around them.
I can only empathize with someone in this state. I probably can't even come close to understanding how hard it is. I didn't start this thread to have a snub nose to people and point out the Bible to them. Its a hard issue. But an issue that seems to need more pressing concern that i think people take. Why? Because the Bible says God hates divorce.
Now i have taken this thread from a Christian view for Christians. I am not basing this thread on Non-Christians in these matters. How can you hold someone to these guidelines if they are lost. They are not Christian so it is not my place to say they can't remarry. They can remarry. Because they are not Christian. If a divorce person becomes a Christian, all the things in their life have become new again. They can get remarried. But a Christian who gets married to another Christians or becomes a Christian though their spouse is not needs to understand the value of that other person to God. At the same time, if their spouse becomes abusive, there needs to be outlets for them in the church already established. I don't know what that would be except to go to the pastor to try to bring accountability to the abuser, whether Christian or not. All abusers should be required to attend accountability couseling for a very long time. Years.
Besides, all christians ought to be accountable to someone around them.
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I read this;
There are two grounds for divorce: one is sexual uncleanness, which includes adultery, but also the other sexual sins covered by the term inappropriate contenteia: homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, prostitution, etc. The other ground is desertion of a believing by an unbelieving spouse.
Is it possible for a spouse to desert a marriage without physically leaving the home? The answer seems to be yes. Certainly if a husband refuses to support his wife and children financially and continues unrepentant in that pattern, but continues to live with them under the same roof, we would conclude that he has deserted his family in the most significant sense. He has refused to take responsibility for them. He has broken his marriage vows and does not seek to renew his adherence to them.
The spouse abuse is therefore grounds for divorce on the basis of desertion. The unrepentant spouse abuser, too, has forsaken his marriage vow. He no longer loves, honors and cherishes his wife; rather he has become a threat to her life and health. This is not to say that a person once abused should file immediately for divorce.
There are two grounds for divorce: one is sexual uncleanness, which includes adultery, but also the other sexual sins covered by the term inappropriate contenteia: homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, prostitution, etc. The other ground is desertion of a believing by an unbelieving spouse.
Is it possible for a spouse to desert a marriage without physically leaving the home? The answer seems to be yes. Certainly if a husband refuses to support his wife and children financially and continues unrepentant in that pattern, but continues to live with them under the same roof, we would conclude that he has deserted his family in the most significant sense. He has refused to take responsibility for them. He has broken his marriage vows and does not seek to renew his adherence to them.
The spouse abuse is therefore grounds for divorce on the basis of desertion. The unrepentant spouse abuser, too, has forsaken his marriage vow. He no longer loves, honors and cherishes his wife; rather he has become a threat to her life and health. This is not to say that a person once abused should file immediately for divorce.
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brotherjim
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Knight,
You said:
I've read many theories, opinions and ideas on this thread but I've not read a whole lot of Scripture on this subject. There is a danger when we start altering or approaching the Word of God with presuppositions. There is further danger when we rely on our own feelings in matters of doctrine.
I know what the Bible says about divorce. I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry. It is also permissable if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer.
-------------------
You warn of the danger of "altering or approaching the Word with presuppositions," and then in the very next paragraph refer to "the only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse" as being "UNREPENTANT adultery." Hmmmmm! I cannot find the supposed "unrepentant" part in my Bible.
You said:
I would argue against the idea that it's ok to divorce knowing that God will forgive you for it.
-----------------------
I believe ALL of us are in agreement here: there is no argument that I see.
You said:
Matthew 5:31-32
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Romans 6: 1-3
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
This is what God's Word says. I would never encourage someone to stay in an abusive marriage where their life may be in danger. As I and others have said, it is permissable to remove yourself and your children from this dangerous situation.
------------------
You quote two passeges from the Bible, follow it with the statement "this is what God's Word says, which it undeniably does, but then follow that with some more erroneous ideas of your own. It's as if you are attaching your falsehoods directly to God's Word as an addendum, and using truth as a "name dropper" to validate some superstitious beliefs. And on top of that, the passages you quote from the Word have nothing to do with what you are proposing.
You say, "as I and the others have said," as if that means anything. First, not ALL others have said what you have, and, second, even if the majority agree with your error, that does not make it correct. After all, do not the majority of people in the world agree that a born-again, supernatural experience through the Blood of Christ Jesus is not needed to have a relationship with God? And yet won't that majority find themselves one day in hell? What does a majority opinion have to do with Truth?
No, it's NOT permissible, at least by the Holy Ghost, for someone to remove themselves. How do you know if by doing so they would not be placing themselves in an even greater risk of danger? Stop trying to steal away the work of God's Spirit through your vain philosophies of the flesh. The Spirit will guide each and every daughter of His as to EXACTLY what is needed and best. And He doesn't want you giving them YOUR permission to the contrary.
You said:
I've read many theories, opinions and ideas on this thread but I've not read a whole lot of Scripture on this subject. There is a danger when we start altering or approaching the Word of God with presuppositions. There is further danger when we rely on our own feelings in matters of doctrine.
I know what the Bible says about divorce. I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry. It is also permissable if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer.
-------------------
You warn of the danger of "altering or approaching the Word with presuppositions," and then in the very next paragraph refer to "the only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse" as being "UNREPENTANT adultery." Hmmmmm! I cannot find the supposed "unrepentant" part in my Bible.
You said:
I would argue against the idea that it's ok to divorce knowing that God will forgive you for it.
-----------------------
I believe ALL of us are in agreement here: there is no argument that I see.
You said:
Matthew 5:31-32
31 "It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Romans 6: 1-3
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
This is what God's Word says. I would never encourage someone to stay in an abusive marriage where their life may be in danger. As I and others have said, it is permissable to remove yourself and your children from this dangerous situation.
------------------
You quote two passeges from the Bible, follow it with the statement "this is what God's Word says, which it undeniably does, but then follow that with some more erroneous ideas of your own. It's as if you are attaching your falsehoods directly to God's Word as an addendum, and using truth as a "name dropper" to validate some superstitious beliefs. And on top of that, the passages you quote from the Word have nothing to do with what you are proposing.
You say, "as I and the others have said," as if that means anything. First, not ALL others have said what you have, and, second, even if the majority agree with your error, that does not make it correct. After all, do not the majority of people in the world agree that a born-again, supernatural experience through the Blood of Christ Jesus is not needed to have a relationship with God? And yet won't that majority find themselves one day in hell? What does a majority opinion have to do with Truth?
No, it's NOT permissible, at least by the Holy Ghost, for someone to remove themselves. How do you know if by doing so they would not be placing themselves in an even greater risk of danger? Stop trying to steal away the work of God's Spirit through your vain philosophies of the flesh. The Spirit will guide each and every daughter of His as to EXACTLY what is needed and best. And He doesn't want you giving them YOUR permission to the contrary.
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Evee
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I did find this 1 Peter 3-7,( you husbands must be careful of your wives, being thoughtful of their needs and honering them as the weaker sex.
Remember that you and your wives are partners in receiving God's blessings.
If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not get ready answers.)
Where is it written that husbands treat your wives like your own body, or something to that effect.
I looked but couldn't find it.
So if husbands treated their wives with respect and love there would a lot happier women.
Verbal abuse is very hurtful also.
If they love you they won't abuse you in any way.
I think that to be true don't you?
Remember that you and your wives are partners in receiving God's blessings.
If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not get ready answers.)
Where is it written that husbands treat your wives like your own body, or something to that effect.
I looked but couldn't find it.
So if husbands treated their wives with respect and love there would a lot happier women.
Verbal abuse is very hurtful also.
If they love you they won't abuse you in any way.
I think that to be true don't you?
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Smilin
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Originally posted by Evee
I did find this 1 Peter 3-7,( you husbands must be careful of your wives, being thoughtful of their needs and honering them as the weaker sex.
Remember that you and your wives are partners in receiving God's blessings.
If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not get ready answers.)
Where is it written that husbands treat your wives like your own body, or something to that effect.
I looked but couldn't find it.
So if husbands treated their wives with respect and love there would a lot happier women.
Verbal abuse is very hurtful also.
If they love you they won't abuse you in any way.
I think that to be true don't you?
Here yah go Evee
Ephesians 5
<SUP>25</SUP> Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
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Knight
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brotherjim,
I'm confused. What do you specifically disagree with me on?
I have not added or subtracted from God's Word. I included "unrepentant" because we are called to forgive and if someone is repentant over the sin of adultry they are presumably turning away from that sin. This IS a presumption but we are talking hypotheticals here. We are called to be merciful are we not?
Perhaps I should have clarified that it is my opinion that it is Biblically permissable for someone to physically remove themselves and their children from an abusive environment. I did not say they should seek divorce.
You claim that this is not permissable. Where does it say so in the Bible?
I'm confused. What do you specifically disagree with me on?
I have not added or subtracted from God's Word. I included "unrepentant" because we are called to forgive and if someone is repentant over the sin of adultry they are presumably turning away from that sin. This IS a presumption but we are talking hypotheticals here. We are called to be merciful are we not?
Perhaps I should have clarified that it is my opinion that it is Biblically permissable for someone to physically remove themselves and their children from an abusive environment. I did not say they should seek divorce.
You claim that this is not permissable. Where does it say so in the Bible?
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brotherjim
Well-Known Member
Dear Knight,
To repeat,
You said:
I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry.
-------------------
You are saying that the Word is saying divorce on the grounds of adultery is something a believer can do if the adultery is unrepentant. The Word does not make that distinction. We are ALLOWED to divorce - and not suggested to do so - whether or not the sin is repented of or not.
By placing the Word in your context, you are implying the believer should react one way if the person who sins against us is truly sorry with a godly sorrow, and another if not.
When Jesus - our example to follow - was being crucified, He didn't ask the Father to forgive them based upon their repentance. It was without conditions.
Your wording also, as with others, implies that it's okay to divorce someone caught in adultery. It's not okay. It's merely allowed. And it's not allowed based on any degree of sinfulness of their sin, but based upon our unwillingness to forgive. The Lord is admitting - as do I - while simple, it's not at all an easy thing to forgive someone who has broken our trust of fidelity. So God's saying, in essence, "Hey look. I know when your spouse commits adultery, it will cause you to harden your heart. Rejected love has such a very strong effect. So I'm not going to DEMAND that you fight against such hardness and not divorce them. This would be asking more than most are willing to bear for Me. So I'm going to ALLOW an "out." If depending upon Me to supernaturally overcome your hardness of heart, is more than you can exercise your faith for, it's okay. I will allow it, because I would much rather call everyone to peace so that they can get on with their lives, then have you stand in faith for something your knees are to weak to support."
Forgive me for speaking for God that way - and I'm not equating my words with scripture, but merely paraphrasing them (or so I allege), but do you see why I had to take exception to your post?
(You asked something else, but I'm on the wrong page and afraid I'll lose my post if I bump over, so I'll "P.S." it if I have something additional to offer.)
[Allegedly] In Him, bro. jim
To repeat,
You said:
I know that there is only one condition whereby a believer can divorce a spouse. That being unrepentant adultry.
-------------------
You are saying that the Word is saying divorce on the grounds of adultery is something a believer can do if the adultery is unrepentant. The Word does not make that distinction. We are ALLOWED to divorce - and not suggested to do so - whether or not the sin is repented of or not.
By placing the Word in your context, you are implying the believer should react one way if the person who sins against us is truly sorry with a godly sorrow, and another if not.
When Jesus - our example to follow - was being crucified, He didn't ask the Father to forgive them based upon their repentance. It was without conditions.
Your wording also, as with others, implies that it's okay to divorce someone caught in adultery. It's not okay. It's merely allowed. And it's not allowed based on any degree of sinfulness of their sin, but based upon our unwillingness to forgive. The Lord is admitting - as do I - while simple, it's not at all an easy thing to forgive someone who has broken our trust of fidelity. So God's saying, in essence, "Hey look. I know when your spouse commits adultery, it will cause you to harden your heart. Rejected love has such a very strong effect. So I'm not going to DEMAND that you fight against such hardness and not divorce them. This would be asking more than most are willing to bear for Me. So I'm going to ALLOW an "out." If depending upon Me to supernaturally overcome your hardness of heart, is more than you can exercise your faith for, it's okay. I will allow it, because I would much rather call everyone to peace so that they can get on with their lives, then have you stand in faith for something your knees are to weak to support."
Forgive me for speaking for God that way - and I'm not equating my words with scripture, but merely paraphrasing them (or so I allege), but do you see why I had to take exception to your post?
(You asked something else, but I'm on the wrong page and afraid I'll lose my post if I bump over, so I'll "P.S." it if I have something additional to offer.)
[Allegedly] In Him, bro. jim
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Smilin
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Originally posted by Evee
Hey thanks Smilin for the scripture in Ephesians.
I checked your profile.
I lived in the upper cumberland plateau for a while.
Sorry for the Hi-Jack. Evee
Crossville or Watts Bar area?
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brotherjim
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Dear Knight,
P.S.
You said:
Perhaps I should have clarified that it is my opinion that it is Biblically permissable for someone to physically remove themselves and their children from an abusive environment. I did not say they should seek divorce.
You claim that this is not permissable. Where does it say so in the Bible?
--------------------------
Obviously - or at least to my knowledge - the Bible DOES NOT say anything specific about staying in an abusive relationship.
My point was, the Bible ALSO DOES NOT say what you are impling it does. As you well-said now, above, it is "your opinion." But we are not here for opinions - I would hope - but to collectively consider all that the scriptures have to say on the matter, thereby forming a doctrine upon what we believe is collectively implied by the Word. Opinions are very dangerous.
Whenever the Word is not ABSOLUTELY SPECIFIC on any given matter, we are to seek the perfect will of God through His Spirit "speaking," or revealing, to our spirit as what to do. To stay in an abusive relationship may not be any more harmful, for instance, than leaving.
We have an example of this in today's news. Some say we should not invade Iraq, that that will only enflame further acts of terrorism against us. The same could be said of an abusiove spouse from whom we flee. Yes, I know the chances of this are small. But the point is, only God knows what will happen to whom.
God has a perfect plan for every believer. We tend to forget that the Christian life is one of, according to John 15, our being pruned for the manifestation of greater Spirit fruits in us. If one of those prunings is God not preventing our spouse from committing adultery or abusing us, then we must, as in ALL circumstances where the Word does not address the situation, fall in utter dependence at the foot of the Cross for the perfect will of the Father to be made manifest.
P.S.
You said:
Perhaps I should have clarified that it is my opinion that it is Biblically permissable for someone to physically remove themselves and their children from an abusive environment. I did not say they should seek divorce.
You claim that this is not permissable. Where does it say so in the Bible?
--------------------------
Obviously - or at least to my knowledge - the Bible DOES NOT say anything specific about staying in an abusive relationship.
My point was, the Bible ALSO DOES NOT say what you are impling it does. As you well-said now, above, it is "your opinion." But we are not here for opinions - I would hope - but to collectively consider all that the scriptures have to say on the matter, thereby forming a doctrine upon what we believe is collectively implied by the Word. Opinions are very dangerous.
Whenever the Word is not ABSOLUTELY SPECIFIC on any given matter, we are to seek the perfect will of God through His Spirit "speaking," or revealing, to our spirit as what to do. To stay in an abusive relationship may not be any more harmful, for instance, than leaving.
We have an example of this in today's news. Some say we should not invade Iraq, that that will only enflame further acts of terrorism against us. The same could be said of an abusiove spouse from whom we flee. Yes, I know the chances of this are small. But the point is, only God knows what will happen to whom.
God has a perfect plan for every believer. We tend to forget that the Christian life is one of, according to John 15, our being pruned for the manifestation of greater Spirit fruits in us. If one of those prunings is God not preventing our spouse from committing adultery or abusing us, then we must, as in ALL circumstances where the Word does not address the situation, fall in utter dependence at the foot of the Cross for the perfect will of the Father to be made manifest.
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brotherjim
Well-Known Member
Dear Knight,
P.P.S.
I also wanted to commend and thank you for the sweet spirit in which you received my alleged corrections. Rare on forums. Many blessings!
bro. jim
P.P.S.
I also wanted to commend and thank you for the sweet spirit in which you received my alleged corrections. Rare on forums. Many blessings!
bro. jim
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Knight
Knight of the Cross
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jim,
You read far too much into my posts.
I have said that I believe it to be Biblically permissable for a believer to divorce in the face of an adulturous spouse. I never said that the Bible tells us to do so. As you said it is "allowed."
I have also said that it is Biblically permissable for someone who is the victim of an abusive spouse to remove themselves and their children from the situation. I did not say that the Bible tells us to do so.
Obviously, we must do whatever the Holy Spirit has convicted us to do. I would never encourage anyone to do otherwise. In this medium we can only deal in the hypothetical so I was attempting to illustrate what the Bible allows in regards to this situation. There is no way for us to know or debate what the Holy Spirit would convict a person to do in this unfortunate situation. All we can deal with is what the Bible teaches us.
There are many things the Bible teaches us to do. There are many things the Bible teaches us not to do. Then there are areas where the Bible, as you say, allows certain things on condition.
You read far too much into my posts.
I have said that I believe it to be Biblically permissable for a believer to divorce in the face of an adulturous spouse. I never said that the Bible tells us to do so. As you said it is "allowed."
I have also said that it is Biblically permissable for someone who is the victim of an abusive spouse to remove themselves and their children from the situation. I did not say that the Bible tells us to do so.
Obviously, we must do whatever the Holy Spirit has convicted us to do. I would never encourage anyone to do otherwise. In this medium we can only deal in the hypothetical so I was attempting to illustrate what the Bible allows in regards to this situation. There is no way for us to know or debate what the Holy Spirit would convict a person to do in this unfortunate situation. All we can deal with is what the Bible teaches us.
There are many things the Bible teaches us to do. There are many things the Bible teaches us not to do. Then there are areas where the Bible, as you say, allows certain things on condition.
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