1 Corinthians 1:25

quoting said:

Corinthians 1:25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I've been arguing with a Muslim about this passage. He says that Paul is doing blasphemy against God. Because he is comparing him to humans. I've tried to tell him its not mean literally and he is taking it the wrong way. I have gave him links as this one http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/foolishness_jp.htm, but he still argues that "that STILL doesnt make up for ANYthing, he compared God's features to Man's features, this alone, even if it were of the best intention, IS A BLASPHEMY ON GOD!" I dont know waht else to tell him. What would you say.

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We are made in the image of GOD.
Why couldn't we be compared.
We are natural, but HE is supernatural. Still the same characteristics, But HE is perfect in His ways. We are not.

quoting said:

What would you say.

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I would say that Genesis tells us that mankind is made in the image of God, and that it is, therefore, perfectly reasonable to assume that there are some characteristics of God which we find reflected in mankind, however dimly and imperfectly.

I would also tell him that our God came to earth and walked as one of us in the person of Our Lord, and that to us this is the greatest gift of all, and is God reaching down to us, not us reaching up to be like him.

And after that I would say it is not for a Moslem to judge a Christian, and certainly not one of the stature of the blessed Paul, because we are all judged by God alone.

Tell him the rest of the passage:

26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."[d]

Tell him the history of Paul, of how he killed Christians for a living, and was highly knowledgeable of the scriptures in that time. He was trained by Galamiel(spelling?) who was highly regarded by the saducees/san hedrin and jews. So he would be aware of the scripture Exodus 20:5 when speaking in his letter, and the Lord is capable of emotion like we comprehend it. But the emotions of the Lord I can imagine are perfect, since the Lord instilled them upon us, but we are not perfect and portray these emotions with error.

Paul was tugging at the heartstrings of the Corinth church.

1 Corinthians 1:25-28 25 Because the "foolishness" of God is wiser than men; and the "weakness" of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many "wise" men after the flesh, not many "mighty", not many "noble", are called: 27 But God hath chosen the "foolish things" of the world to confound the "wise"; and God hath chosen the "weak things" of the world to confound the things which are "mighty"; 28 And "base things" of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

Notice the quotes. All the words in quotes are how the world (wrongly) views the things of God. The things of God are not "weaknesses" or "foolishness" in reality - but appear so to unbelievers.

Dido (") what greatnut said about this verse.

In I Corinth 1:25 God is giving the reason why verse 23 is God’s way. “Because” God’s methods always turn out to be best. “The foolishness of God” refers to things men call foolish like worshipping God, forgiveness of sin, and zeal for salvation of others. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness (v 18).

“Stronger than men” refers to the strength of God seen in the Gospel’s ability to solve life’s problems while men show no power to solve them. This verse is not talking about physical or material power. God’s people are engaged in spiritual conflict (2 Corinth 10:3, 4, Eph 6:12).

Now, regarding the sin of blasphemy, tell him the definition of the sin as Jesus does in Matt 12 and Mark 3. The scribes of Jesus’ day committed blasphemy. Mark 3:22 says of them: “And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.” In response to this grievous sin Jesus declares in Mark 3:28-29: “Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith whosoever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

In verse 30 He explains that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to believe that Christ was under the power of Satan rather than under the power of the Holy Spirit. The scribes who hated Jesus and desired His death had committed this dreadful sin; they were convinced that He was of Satan. They had no desire to look upon Him as their Messiah. The Bible mentions only that the scribes in Mark 3 and Matthew 12 have committed this sin.

The most hardened sinner today ordinarily would not become convicted that Jesus received His power from Satan. Anyone who has the slightest interest in Jesus as his Savior could not commit this dreadful sin.

In Christ’s service,
Dave

Funny, the Qu'ran does exactly that, speaking of God's arms and face and such....

Moreover, it doesn't matter if the Scriptures don't meet up to Islamic standards. The incomparability of God and man is a false standard which shouldn't be used to weigh the validity of texts.

quoting said:

Corinthians 1:25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I've been arguing with a Muslim about this passage. He says that Paul is doing blasphemy against God. Because he is comparing him to humans. I've tried to tell him its not mean literally and he is taking it the wrong way. I have gave him links as this one http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/foolishness_jp.htm, but he still argues that "that STILL doesnt make up for ANYthing, he compared God's features to Man's features, this alone, even if it were of the best intention, IS A BLASPHEMY ON GOD!" I dont know waht else to tell him. What would you say.

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Forget even trying to defend Paul to the Muslims as he would usurp their own prophet Muhammad. They do not believe Jesus was crucified and resurrected and that is the main crux of Paul's whole "Good-Message".

http://christianforums.com/t4410009-can-muhammad-and-paul-be-buddies.html&page=4&highlight=paul
Can Muhammad and Paul be buddies

Hi LLOJ ,..
Idont think any can convince these guys of anything ,
but they may get a seed planted in their hearts without knowing it .. its happened to me before lol , and thats a good thing Thanking God for it ..

as far as the foolishness of God being wiser than men

sure I so believe this , how else could God judge our hearts and not flesh ?
and thats all man does unjustly not even knowing their own hearts in how they would handle circumstances trials / with a jury of unjust judges Not Knowing anything about Love and forgiveness and being mistreated without seeking revenge in anger john 8


no flesh/carnal mind /thoughts ever pleased Him ever ...

Yet , what Kind of flesh did Jesus have in His glorified/spiritual body ?

15`Ye according to the flesh do judge; I do not judge any one,

16and even if I do judge my judgment is true, because I am not alone, but I and the Father who sent me;
17and also in your law it hath been written, that the testimony of two men are true;
18I am [one] who is testifying of myself, and the Father who sent me doth testify of me.' 2 witness as/1 in agreement
19They said, therefore, to him, `Where is thy father?' Jesus answered, `Ye have neither known me nor my Father: if me ye had known, my Father also ye had known.

the mortal flesh/carnal thinking /wisdom of men does not know God at all nor Jesus they only posses [retain and proclaim ]their own knowledge wisdom thoughts that is warring against the Spirit of the living God , His Glory is victory over this death corruption /decay = destruction foolish/ silly type thinking


making GOD S WISDOM AWESOME!!!!!
and was also thinking how well Hidden God in His wisdom can be and making it come thought Jesus Christ ! WOW!! Hows that for Gods confounding them in their own smarts [)]

but I was thinking when Jesus come to many after His ressurection in His glorified Body [no corruption /decay] , none recognized Him ! not a one , In a couple of places , I noted that
until He opened their understanding and the Scriptures as their hearts burned within them hummm . than they knew it was Him Luke 24
BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

and the place where the woman thought Jesus was the gardener ? these were His and they knew Him not till He let them know Him ...
GODS in control trusting in His Wisdom not mine own mortal decay/thoughts to me the same as blasphing againt the work of God and His Christ .. Peace C

quoting said:

Corinthians 1:25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I've been arguing with a Muslim about this passage. He says that Paul is doing blasphemy against God. Because he is comparing him to humans. I've tried to tell him its not mean literally and he is taking it the wrong way. I have gave him links as this one http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/foolishness_jp.htm, but he still argues that "that STILL doesnt make up for ANYthing, he compared God's features to Man's features, this alone, even if it were of the best intention, IS A BLASPHEMY ON GOD!" I dont know waht else to tell him. What would you say.

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Paul is here being sarcastic- again! 'Ok,' he says. 'So you think that Christ dying for His people sounds idiotic, do you?' He is using the blasphemy of unrepentant men- 'foolishness to Gentiles'- not his own opinion, to make a very trenchant point. By 'man's wisdom' he means 'the folly of man that arises from his stubborn pride'. Man respects power, control, strength, but Jesus showed that the divine principle is quite the reverse.

And stubborn pride may be what you encounter here. There is none so blind as he who won't see. The Muslim notion that Christians think that Jesus is literal progeny of the Father (by marriage, presumably) speaks for itself already.

Hi calluna
your right Good post , its the pride of men that cause stumbling and leads to more ungodliness .. missing out entirely
Jesus DID SHOW faith and obedience as the main
principle without faith its impossible to please Him/ Father
and TO believe/ as trust obey
Blue Letter Bible
HIS WORD /WILL & SPIRIT is the greatest thing one can do to Glorify God
peace C

Chickapee said:

Hi calluna
your right Good post , its the pride of men that cause stumbling and leads to more ungodliness .. missing out entirely
Jesus DID SHOW faith and obedience as the main
principle without faith its impossible to please Him/ Father
and TO believe/ as trust obey
Blue Letter Bible
HIS WORD /WILL & SPIRIT is the greatest thing one can do to Glorify God
peace C

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Hi chickapee, thanks for your comment. Yes, Jesus' obedience is the example for us, except that we have no eternal glory to let go of, only fleshly desires that do us harm.

'Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!' Php 2:5-8 NIV

'Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!' Php 2:5-8 NIV

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amen Bro apart/seperated from Christ i am Nothing !
for without Him Jesus Christ we Can DO NOTHING!! the True Vine in the earth the abundance and Increase of the God Head bodily /and GLORY OF THE FATHER
GOD bless you always with more of Him .. C

How do we, as humans, avoid comparing God to ourselves? Isn't even the idea that one cannot compare God with man a comparison?

angelmom01 said:

How do we, as humans, avoid comparing God to ourselves? Isn't even the idea that one cannot compare God with man a comparison?

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We avoid comparing God to ourselves by never opening a Bible, and keeping clear of the born again. We are supposed to compare ourselves with God, to make ourselves open to the Holy Spirit. We do not have Jesus in the flesh to compare ourselves to, but we have fellow saints, who are temples of the Holy Spirit, to observe and learn from. All the saints are examples to each other, and to non-Christians, who should all be regarded as potential brothers or sisters through our practical as well as verbal witness.

angelmom01 said:

How do we, as humans, avoid comparing God to ourselves? Isn't even the idea that one cannot compare God with man a comparison?

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great question[THOUGHT] !Angelmom01,
there is a warning Not to compare the heavenly Father INVISIBLE GOD .... WHOM CHRIST IS ALSO Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:..with any earthly thing

men whom teach & speak abomination between themselves Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

GOD BLESS ..c

Paul:

(ASV) 1 Corinthians 1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void. 18 For THE WORD OF THE CROSS IS TO THEM THAT PERISH FOOLISHNESS; BUT UNTO US WHO ARE SAVED IT IS THE POWER OF GOD. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the discernment of the discerning will I bring to nought. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe. 22 Seeing that Jews ask for signs, and Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 but WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED, UNTO JEWS A STUMBLINGBLOCK, AND UNTO GENTILES FOOLISHNESS; 24 BUT UNTO THEM THAT ARE CALLED, BOTH JEWS AND GREEKS, CHRIST THE POWER OF GOD, AND THE WISDOM OF GOD. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


quoting:

I've been arguing with a Muslim about this passage.


Jim:

Why are you arguing Christian doctrine with a Muslim? Of course he thinks that Christian doctrine is wrong. Of course he thinks that Paul is a blasphemer. If he didn't, then he would not be a Muslim, but a Christian.

Apparently, you don’t believe what Paul says in this passage either, because in direct contradiction to what Paul says in this passage, you are expecting someone who is “perishing” to regard what Paul says in this passage as something other than “foolishness.”

If this Muslim reads the New Testament, then the Gospel has been preached to him through the reading of the New Testament, yet he has rejected it ... because he’s still a Muslim. Yet here you are arguing Christian doctrine with someone who has rejected Christ. Stop arguing with him and start praying for him. Like everyone else, he needs to be saved. Until he's saved, he's always going to think that Christian doctrine is wrong.


Jim

quoting said:

Corinthians 1:25: Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

I've been arguing with a Muslim about this passage. He says that Paul is doing blasphemy against God. Because he is comparing him to humans. I've tried to tell him its not mean literally and he is taking it the wrong way. I have gave him links as this one http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/foolishness_jp.htm, but he still argues that "that STILL doesnt make up for ANYthing, he compared God's features to Man's features, this alone, even if it were of the best intention, IS A BLASPHEMY ON GOD!" I dont know waht else to tell him. What would you say.

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Hi Quoting ,
Getting back on track here , sorry about that

When you read this chapter in context , Paul is basically saying God is greater than all ,

anything He created and Paul; is comparing
the wisdom of men to foolish and vain thinking so temperate /touchy emotional

and God uses this very thing to destroy their widsom ,

in one place in the WORD OF GOD we also read the wisdom comes from / below is earthly sensual and devilish

because it is divided /seperated by Gods will in the first place from the beginning
Jesus wisdom is from Above Holy pure etc.

a prime example in the Bible would be When Jesus was explaining that He was to die on that Cross

[ and Paul using this example in 1 Corinth 1;25] { the Power of the Cross of Christ ,
is foolish to those perishing /dying/ corruption /sin }

when Peter wanted and debated/argued the Lord about going to do this ,

Jesus knowing it was Gods /Fathers will to do this ''Once for all time ''

making an open show of this powers and principalities in high places ,

being turned over to the hands of men /sinners to do ''whatever they wanted '' namely ''Kill Him ''said get behind me satan /adversary
you are a stumblingblock and offense/in the way to Me
this was Peters Thinking earthly sensual and devilish mindset
and we Know Peter was with the Lord in many things already

so how could he still be thinking in a carnal mindset ?
sensual
psychikos ruled by breath
is soulish /beastly what they feel and what feels good to them only and not good for all ,

its the sensuous nature with its subjection to appetite and passion, the principal of animal life,

which men have in common with the brutes
to me its out for numero uno
So to argue with traditionalist bro , I recommend lots of prayer to God ,

for help in change of heart before continuing the war of words [swords]
God know I could use more love , mercy and grace to others as well
open confession .. hope this helps you somehow ... peace in Christ C