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Hi, Montalban

You might try reading Michael Whelton's book Two Paths, which is published by Regina Orthodox Press. In it Michael claims that many in Britain and in Germany did not accept Papal Infallibility. Furthermore, he claims that Papal Infallibility was literally forced upon them by the Vatican who basically imprisoned many Bishops and Cardinals until they could agree with the definition. Then Michael mentions how lightning struck the dome of the Vatican in 1870 and claims that this act of God shows disapproval, while the Vatican apparently said that it was a sign of Divine approval.

Michael quotes from The Papacy as one of his sources. Of course, people in OBOB reject that book as being heretical for many reasons, one being the fact that it has a Jansenistic overview.


For further information, you may wish to visit this thread
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7183668

By far the best is the 'The Papacy" by Abee Guetee published in 1860, a bit tough to find in print nowadays, youll have to search. "Two Paths" by Michael Whelton is good too.

Click to expand...

That was quoted by Buzuxi (from another thread on Papacy) ... Maybe this book could help you?

I thought that someone said that The Papacy is now on the Internet.

I read half the book and it was boring

According to the book Two Paths by Michael Whelton, he writes:

" In 1789 the Protestation of the English Catholics was signed by all the vicars general and all the catholic clergy and laity in England of any note, who solemnly declared before Parliament that "we acknowledge no infallibility of the pope".

The footnote given is from the , "Historical Memoirs Respecting the English Catholics" Vol 2. pgs 113-118, Charles Butler Murray, London 1819


He further writes that in 1825 a british Parliament Royal Commission was formed in view of the catholic emancipation act of 1829. A number of british and irish bishops were interviewed, all denying papal infallibility. One bishop said that the authority of the pope is limited by the canons and councils. It is the pope's duty to protect them not violate them. Other Q&A from bishops are quoted in connection with this commission. (footnote- Documenta, Vol 1 pgs 234, 236,237,240, Friedrich)

Michael Whelton also writes that in 1826, 30 Irish bishops signed, the 'Declaration of the Archbishops and Bishops Of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland", who declared, "The Catholics of Ireland declare on oath their belief that it is not an article of the Catholic faith, neither are they required to believe, that the pope is infallible." (footnote- Essay on the Catholic Claims , pg300 Bishop James Doyle, J Broker London 1826)

He also quotes from a popular RC catechisms endorsed by a number of RC bishops from England and Ireland of the early 19th century which teach that papal infallibility is a hoax originating from the protestants.

This is all in the book Two Paths pgs 140-156

Montalban said:

Thanks, but I've not learnt anything new.

All the sources state " In 1825, a British Parliamentary Royal Commission was established in view of the forthcoming Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829"
e.g. http://www.americanorthodoxchurch.org/faq.html
and the site I cited earlier.

The problem is I can not find any information from Parliament about this Royal Commission (see OP).

It doesn't 'exist' as far as evidence except on Orthodox sites stating it. That it's also in "Two Paths" is of no use to me.

I found another site
http://www.pgil-eirdata.org/html/pgil_datasets/authors/d/Doyle,JamesW/life.htm
that states
"See also The Report of the Parliamentary Commission of Inquiry into the ‘State of Ireland’ and particularly the Whiteboy agitations, edited by William Phelan and Mortimer O’Sullivan (1824) [under Phelan, infra]."
But the parliament web site has nothing under William Phelan

Click to expand...

The sources given are found in the paranthesis.

its a long shot, but you may find some help (online or by contact) through a dept. of Celtic Studies. I'm having a brain dud, but Trinity (Dublin) comes to mind. There's now an extensive database of extant Irish texts online, and more than one journal of Irish Studies (some with online offerings). I'll be gone most of tomorrow, but if you haven't found online sources by then, I'll try to find some (lost in computer crashes).

best

here's one (the oldest, I think)

http://www.celt.dias.ie/english/

database of online texts:

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/

here's a journal link:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FKX

I don't think this is quite what you're looking for, but may be of help:

http://www.archive.org/stream/a622103200gladuoft/a622103200gladuoft_djvu.txt

(scroll down a bit)

Montalban said:

Thank you for the links. Unfortunately, when for instance I put in the search term "Oliver Kelley"* none of the sites have given me any results.

But I'll keep trying other search parameters.

*-the name of one of the alleged respondents

Click to expand...

in one source, it seems his surname is given as O'Kelley

if you can't find much online, it may be helpful to at least identify (living) authors on the issue and send an e-mail or call; or perhaps call one of the Irish/Celtic Study depts and ask who is presently considered the most knowledgeable on the era/subject in question.

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc42.html


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PAGE 50. INFALLIBILITY.--ON THE DOCTRINE OF INFALLIBILITY AS SET FORTH AT THE VATICAN COUNCIL OF 1870-71, SEE PHILIP SCHAFF, THE CREEDS OF CHRISTENDOM, VOL. 2, DOGMATIC DECREES OF THE VATICAN COUNCIL, PP. 234-271, WHERE BOTH THE LATIN AND THE ENGLISH TEXTS ARE GIVEN. FOR DISCUSSION SEE, FOR THE ROMAN CATHOLIC VIEW, THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOL. 7, ART. "INFALLIBILITY," BY PATRICK J. TONER, P. 790 FF.; JAMES CARDINAL GIBBONS, THE FAITH OF OUR FATHERS (BALTIMORE: JOHN MURPHY COMPANY, 110TH ED., 1917), CHS. 7, 11. FOR ROMAN CATHOLIC OPPOSITION TO THE DOCTRINE OF PAPAL INFALLIBILITY, SEE JOHANN JOSEPH IGNAZ VON DOLLINGER (PSEUDONYM "JANUS") THE POPE AND THE COUNCIL (NEW YORK: CHARLES SCRIBNER'S SONS, 1869); AND W.J. SPARROW SIMPSON, ROMAN CATHOLIC OPPOSITION TO PAPAL INFALLIBILITY (LONDON: JOHN MURRAY, 1909). FOR THE NON-ROMAN VIEW, SEE GEORGE SALMON, INFALLIBILITY OF THE CHURCH (LONDON: JOHN MURRAY, REV. ED., 1914). [/FONT]
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Have you looked up Von Dollinger and Sparow Simpson? I tried to find the books on line but was impossible Simpson's seem to me to have more information that you are looking for.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Opposition_to_Papal_Infallibility

I think I found it...^