Jesus and Epigenetics

guzman

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You still don't understand. The whole package is incorporated. Everything. The organism as well as it's species. All of it. It all counts towards or against fitness.
yes, the biological whole. You're sounding like me. I'm a wholist -- I believe in wholes. Evolutinists on the otherhand, do not believe in wholes. They believe in parts. They believe organisms built up one part at a time, over eons. These parts were not "guided" by a mind or anything else -- they just appeared. This is the 360 degree opposite of what I believe and what the evidence shows, which is that the individual organism is an adaptive whole, who interacts with his environment and then produces adaptive traits as an intelligent response.
 
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Psudopod

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Mind, on the otherhand DOES generate organisms -- it started at conception, where the mind went about the process of expressing genes and building the person. Cells have to somehow know where to go and what to do..each cell contains the same genetic blueprint -- same dna -- so something else must be guiding them to construct the person from a non-person...aka from the sperm/egg collision.

Are you telling me that the devolping foetus controls its own developement from the point of conception? That something without a mind shapes itself through the power of mind control?
 
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Tomk80

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no I'm not jumping the gun. Mutations surely happen and they surely have a physiological effect, but mutations are almost always destroyers.
Again, this is wrong. Mutations are mostly harmless. At least two third of them won't do anything. A lot of them will furthermore only affect rate of expression, which is what you want with epigenetics. Well, mutations can do that to. Lastly, mutations can be beneficial and if they are, those will spread. This has been documented.

They degenerate organisms, not generate them.
They can indeed degenerate organisms. Those that do are weeded out by natural selection. Those that don't, do nothing or make the organism thrive.
Mind, on the otherhand DOES generate organisms -- it started at conception, where the mind went about the process of expressing genes and building the person.
So you believe bacteria have minds?
Cells have to somehow know where to go and what to do..each cell contains the same genetic blueprint -- same dna -- so something else must be guiding them to construct the person from a non-person...aka from the sperm/egg collision.
And that something is chemicals. Every cell sends out signals to other cells. Based on those signals, DNA is triggered to produce certain proteins. This leads to different instructions turned on or off. This has nothing to do with mind but all with chemical reactions and electrical signals. This is quite well understood, you should study up on it.

As life continues, the mind is always in control of biological function.
No, it is not. Most processes in your body go on without your mind in control. They just go automatically.
It uses its genes like a construction worker uses his tools. The tools don't build the structure, the mind behind the builder does. Evos deny the builder, though, in an attempt to prop up a bum theory. but if the mind indeed controls the production of adaptive traits in humans and in other animals, then ToE is good for nothing but the wastebasket.
As Assyrian noted, your thoughts are very much New Age and very little Christian. Furthermore, your mind does very little in this. Mostly it is automatic reactions based on chemics, electric pathways etcetera. Again, this is quite well understood, so why you would want to ignore that data is beyond me.
 
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Tomk80

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that doesn't even make any sense. We're not talking about recombination. Read my post again.
You're actually right, we are talking about splicing. My bad.

That doesn't change anything about the point I am making though.

Do you actually know how a gene produces multiple proteins? Do you know what the mechanism at work is? Because I get the strong feeling you don't.
 
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Greeble

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yes, the biological whole. You're sounding like me. I'm a wholist -- I believe in wholes. Evolutinists on the otherhand, do not believe in wholes. They believe in parts. They believe organisms built up one part at a time, over eons. These parts were not "guided" by a mind or anything else -- they just appeared. This is the 360 degree opposite of what I believe and what the evidence shows, which is that the individual organism is an adaptive whole, who interacts with his environment and then produces adaptive traits as an intelligent response.

Just because our studies concentrate on a small part of the entire being/species doesn't mean we aren't aware of the entirety. You, on the other hand, insist on slicing the individual out of its universe.
 
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FishFace

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Tom: Great, so you agree that if the gene for the necessary protein doesn't exist, it is not going to be produced. See, we're already getting there.

Nice try. vary rarely does one gene code for one protein. As usually is the case, one gene codes for numerous proteins or numerous genes code for one protien. This is why the same gene or genes will have different physiological effects from one person to another -- it's because there is something else involved in producing traits -- there's a backdrop of mind behind all matter in living things that expresses itself.

If that were true, gene therapy would be pointless and GM foods wouldn't work. There would be no point in selective breeding programs because cows could just choose to be scrawny.
 
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FishFace

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no I'm not jumping the gun. Mutations surely happen and they surely have a physiological effect, but mutations are almost always destroyers.

Evidence, plzkthx.

They degenerate organisms, not generate them. Mind, on the otherhand DOES generate organisms

Evidence, plzkthx.

As life continues, the mind is always in control of biological function. It uses its genes like a construction worker uses his tools. The tools don't build the structure, the mind behind the builder does.

Evidence - please, okay, thanks.
 
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ReverendDG

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yes, the biological whole. You're sounding like me. I'm a wholist -- I believe in wholes. Evolutinists on the otherhand, do not believe in wholes. They believe in parts. They believe organisms built up one part at a time, over eons. These parts were not "guided" by a mind or anything else -- they just appeared.
its a good thing this is a strawman of the ToE then

This is the 360 degree opposite of what I believe and what the evidence shows, which is that the individual organism is an adaptive whole, who interacts with his environment and then produces adaptive traits as an intelligent response.
the evidence doesn't show the lame strawman you came up with, much less the mind nonsense you shovel
please learn a bit about how evolution works, i know i'm wasting my breath, but it seems to need to keep being said
 
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guzman

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Are you telling me that the devolping foetus controls its own developement from the point of conception? That something without a mind shapes itself through the power of mind control?
"To the assertion "there's no mind unless there's a body" -- no thought unless there's a brain -- I assert the contrary: "There can be no body unless there's a mind..." Geneticist, Giuseppe Sermonti
 
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