JacktheCatholic
Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
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Is the Pope the most powerful voice for Christianity today?
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in other words, the Bishops. Yes, thank you.
You "would imagine" ??
This is the proper way to interpret scripture, using one's imagination?
What does this word mean, "imagine" in the Greek?
It means to be mindful of. To keep in one's mind, even when that person is not around. To go through one's day with these rulers and their teachings in one's conscious recollection, etc.
Do you have rulers you obey in your local church?
Paul says this is found in a church.
Who are your rulers and do you obey them?
Do you obey them?
Do you obey them?
Do they rule over you?
Do you obey them?
Regarldess, do they rule over you?
Do you obey them?
So Paal tells us we have rulers in the Church over us. . . .
since that is obvously a mark of the Church, why doesn't your church have any?
Is that his fault?
If you are not listening, then that is not his fault.
And no, every teaching of the Catholic Church is found in the bible whether you agree or not.
But he does speak for Christianity, which was what the OP asked about.
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Uphill Battle
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don't I know it.
I know=I believe. at least be honest about it.
if you say so! I have the same mapbook. (or at least, I have what I believe is the mapbook, which you also possess, but perhaps you don't believe it's the mapbook.)
alrighty then.
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Please explain to me what the difference is between the Pope and the bishops.
From the Catechism. The Pope has a special role to strengthen the brethren and his faith will not fail, and that's why Jesus united him to to Himself as the "rock" through whom the Spirit would operate in a special way.
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JacktheCatholic
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I stake my eternal soul on it confidently. That is why I say 'know'.
Can you say that about your belief?
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But he does speak for Christianity, which was what the OP asked about.
You do a marvelous job staying on topic, I must say.
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Uphill Battle
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about Christ? yes. About doctinal caveats? I have no need for them to be perfect.
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That is true, so what else it there to discuss about him, unless of course you are implying we non-RCs are not Christ-ians?Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
But he does speak for Christianity, which was what the OP asked about.
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Job 36:13 But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.
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Asinner
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From the Catechism (thank you
) . . .882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404
Theresalittleflower said:
Would someone like to clarify these two seemingly divergent views?
Love,
Christina
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Christina, Jesus Himself put Peter over the rest of the Apostles.
Remember what He told Peter when He asked him "Do you love Me?"
Do you remember that satan earmarked Peter for special attention?
Why did satan mark Peter in such a way? Why especially Peter?
Do yo remember what Jesus did? He prayed specificall and specially for Peter . .
Why Peter?
And what did He pray for?
Luk 22:31 ¶ And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
This is all about Peter. . Jesus is specifically speaking about him - the personal pronoun is in the second person singular . so this is about Peter, no one else.
Again, why Peter specifically?
And what is Peter to do?
Strenthen his brethern - the rest of the apostles:
"Strengthen":
Lexicon Results for stērizō (Strong's G4741) Greek for G4741 στηρίζω Transliteration
stērizō
Pronunciation
stā-rē'-zō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
from a presumed derivative of G2476 (like G4731)
TDNT Reference
7:653,1085
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
2) to strengthen, make firm
3) to render constant, confirm, one's mind
stērizō
Pronunciation
stā-rē'-zō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
from a presumed derivative of G2476 (like G4731)
TDNT Reference
7:653,1085
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
2) to strengthen, make firm
3) to render constant, confirm, one's mind
And then Jesus confirms this again after His resurrection:
Jhn 21:15 ¶ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Jhn 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Jhn 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
It was Jesus who put Peter over all the flock .. . and this is obviously a lot more than an honorary position. It is obviously very functional and carries real authority.
Again, why did satan focus on Peter so much?
We go back to what Jesus told Peter about Peter:
You are Rock (Peter) and upon this Rock (Peter) I will build My Church.
Of course satan would want to destroy Peter - this is why he was so focused on Peter - if he could destroy Peter, then the Church would never get off the ground - and Jesus' promise would never materialize.
And so this explains why Jesus was so concerned for Peter especially - and why He focused so much on Peter in that dark hour.
The EO are wrong Christina, very, very wrong.
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Hi tlf!!! Eveyone outside of Roman Catholicism is "Wrong" according to your Denomination.
And yes, I said Denomination.
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From the Catechism (thank you
882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404
Would someone like to clarify these two seemingly divergent views?
Love,
Christina
Christina, you are taking me out of context.
As I said, the buck stops somewhere. Nothing contradictory at all actually.
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Hi tlf!!! Eveyone outside of Roman Catholicism is "Wrong" according to your Denomination.
I am sorry you are wrong lloj.
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That is true, so what else it there to discuss about him, unless of course you are implying we non-RCs are not Christ-ians?
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Job 36:13 But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.
Enough with the misrepresentations lloj.
I don't know what your problem is, but if you can't have a reasonable conversation without taking pot shots like this, that you know aren't true, then really what is your purpose for being in this thread except to stir up strife?
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You mean like this one by you earlier?
Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
No, you are not orthodox lloj - you are very unorthodox in at least some of your beliefs.
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i saw there was no answer . . .
Yes, and when we are born again, all is washed away . . .are we still defiled at that momment?
Why? Paul tells us that we have rulers over us in the church . . why doesn't yours have these rulers? Why doesn't your church match what Paul tells us about the Church?
Where do the rules come from if you do not have rulers?
But that is not what I was asking . . . I was not asking about rules - -
I was asking about RULERS. . . people . .
You say that you do not have rulers . . .so you cannot obey them as scripture commands you do . . .
Why don't you have these rulers?
Yes cmo3
By submitting to his authority and that of the Church.
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You mean like this one by you earlier?
Originally Posted by thereselittleflower
You made a claim lloj . . that claim became open to scrutiny and contradiction. That is not taking a pot shot.
Don't make comments you don't want contradicted.
You're the one who brought up the EO - you're the one who claimed to be orthodox in comparison to the EO . . you don't hold to the entirety of the orthodox faith and I merely pointed that out.
That doesn't mean you aren't orthodox in the rest of your beliefs. But to lay the claim to orthodoxy, you must be orhtodox in all your beliefs. Not just some of them.
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You are correct. There is a unifying leader appointed by Jesus and he works in unison with the college of bishops.
Very rarely in history has the Pope exercised the charism that Peter did when he identified Jesus as the "Son of the Living God." Those trying to catch you in some sort of contradiction are not following Jesus.
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