The Biblical Literalist "Straight Answer" thread

EnemyPartyII said:

Medical records stating that the patient had cancer on one date, then didn't have cancer on a later date, without having undergone any sort of medical intervention. That would be pretty good evidence.Yes, someone suggested that God would remove the evidence of the Flood, as though this was a given To which I respond... its pretty illogical to use a flood to destroy the wicked people, then miraculously clean up the mess. Why not sjust miraculously clean up the evil in the first place?

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Oh, so now you can tell God what's logical...

Soul Searcher said:

Glad to hear he survived.
If you think something is black and I show you that it is white that is evidence and any rational person will believe that evidence and change thier opinion. The situtations where something happens and it is attributed to God is speculation and opinion and is subject to interpretation. Those who believe in God are likely to interpret it as God those who do not believe will likely look at alternative explainations. It does not mean they are ignoring the evidence but that they are not jumping to conclusions.

No one has seen God, No one has heard his voice. We pray and sometimes those prayers seem to pan about and sometimes they do not. I can tell some pretty interestign stories myself but when it comes to real evidence all I can really show is that the doctor was wrong anything beyond that is simply opinion and can not be backed up with evidence.

The indication earlier was solid evidence that something had happened like a broken bone suddenly healed or cancer dissappearing completely backed up with before and after xrays or some such thing. Anyone who would not believe that the injury or illness was cured by other than the doctor would be rare indeed however that does not mean that they must jump to the God conclusion as the explaination.

Would they suddenly believe in God because of some such thing? Some would, some would consider the possiblity and some would not but most would believe what the evidence actually says.

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Michael Jackson anyone?...

Tinker Grey said:

Some Christians believe that the Bible is merely an admirable attempt to respond to the experience of God.

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Never heard that, and never met any Christians who believe that or teach it. Admirable attempt? Pffft.

No. The bible contains the powerful, living word of God. It changes lives just by the ingesting of its nearly palpable truth.

EnemyPartyII said:

Sounds like you limit your contact to a fairly small group of Christians (says one of the several million Christians who do not believe the Bible is the "word of God")

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Apart from the fact that you don't know several million Christians who do not believe the Bible is the Word of God---it is false anyway.

Born again, Spirit-filled Christians the world over all know that the Bible is God's Word to us, His message of love and hope and of the Saviour He has provided for us.

EnemyPartyII said:

Sure... which changes old laws...

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Changes the structure of the relationship between the two parties, God and man. We are granted greater access on an individual basis with God through Christ. This does not require another intermediary (the priesthood) or any sacrifices. Christ himself is our sacrifice. The innocent for the guilty.

Yes, many of the laws and requirements are overtaken by the new covenant which is based upon the old and updated. Those things which carry over from the old are re-iterated in the new.

If thats all it takes, then great, all Christians are born again.

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To become born again we must trust in the work of Christ on our behalf and confess him as Lord. This confession carries with it the weight of turning one's life over to serving God. This requires the renewing of the mind which comes about by attending to the words of scripture. One can become saved and neglect their salvation. However, I'm reluctant to speculate on the outcome of such a person in the judgment. I will say their are some very scary text regarding the condition of one who turns their back on Christ.

On the other hand I don't want to cause fear and trepidation. If I am any indication of the mercy God shows a person who is inclined to fail on multitudes of numerous occasion some in spectacular fashion then one can take hope in the Great Mercy, Forbearance, Forgiveness, and Patience of God. Having said that, I'd like to buffer it with, regardless, God's calling is for us to walk in holiness. That is not however to say He is a cruel task-master. It is a process. As we seek Him diligently the understanding of "how" this can be accomplished becomes clear. It is only possible with His help and our learning to rest in His empowerment. I don't think it's something one can adequately explain, at least I don't feel I can.

EnemyPartyII said:

Do you have to personally know everyone of a group to know such a group exists?

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You have to know someone who represents them to be able to state what you did. Because what is attributed to "millions of Christians" is false according to the Word of God, the Bible.

How many homosexuals do you know who have told you about the "homosexual agenda"?

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When one speaks for a group, he acts as a spokesperson. That is my source, and a public figure to boot.

(Don't ask who--I forget who it was.)

EnemyPartyII said:

so one person, claiming to speak for all homosexuals told you personally about the homosexual agenda, but you can't remember who it was?

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Yep. He said there definitely was an agenda and they would see to its fulfillment.

EnemyPartyII said:

So if one homosexual told you this, and that is enough to convince you that ALL homosexuals agree on this...

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He was a spokesperson, and was a guest on a tv show. He was speaking for innumerable people...and to millions.

EnemyPartyII said:

Um... so how come he overturned so much of the law? Thing called the new covenant?

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First, we have God's divine moral law, that arises from God's nature. They are unchanging. We must difine the difference between moral law and the Cultic/Cultural law. Each are different in form and purpose.

God's moral law is the basis of love in every aspect, how to abide and function in it with God and humanity where love seeks no harm. God's laws relate into our purpose how we serve him and other humans. These moral laws protect and secure humanity.

Almost all of human law stems from God's moral law. Even though we deny God in our legal system, the whole system stems form God or religion, "you shall not steal, kill, ect." Moral law is cross cultural, for all people at all times.

The Cultic/Cultural law was given to the nation of Israel specifically. These laws are not cross cultural, they were for the purpose of building a nation, that would be God's chosen people and the linage of Christ. These laws seperated Israel from other nations. Laws of sacrifice of animals. Some of the laws are of Messianic linage, some to guarantee tribal inheritance of land. Of course many of these laws prohibited many behaviors. Rules were given that seem strange and cruel to our culture, but were specific to maintaining Israels total dependence on God.

All of these laws ceased when their purpose was fulfilled, when Christ ended them. Most of these laws are contained within the holiness code outlined in Lev. 17-27. THis code was to seperate Israel from other secular culture and religious practices. Christ did away with all these laws. For anyone to attempt to keep them would be vainful and useless.

Christ freed us from all this law. It serves no purpose. We live under one law..the law of love. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your
neighbor as yourself." (Galatians 5:14 RSV)

It amazes me that people are bound to so much legalism. We are under grace, but many churches still abide in laws, rituals, ect, that have nothing to do with love. That's why so many churchs are filled with gossip, hyprocrisy, judging, ect...Truly miserable christians.

There were so many of these issues that were historical or cultural and they were dealt with as such. Paul left openings and decision making, based on future culture and circumstances.

Rom. 8.13, "Nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything is unclean, to him it is unclean. That's clear and biblical. Nothing is unclean in itself. Clearly, sin can differ from individual as he views sin.

This often changes one way or the other as people grow and study scripture. If it does not break the law of love and you can be happy in your concscience, the bible says you can freely act, as long as you don't become a stumbling block for someone that is weaker. Somethings you may not do in front of a weaker person. However, if you doubt in your conscience, you should not act, until it is resolved, Cor. 8:12.

Eaach person must exercise their faith before God. Roms. 14: 22-23 "The faith you have, have as your OWN CONVICTION before God. "HAPPY is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."; This does two things. You are to base your decisions on love and not harming others, decide for yourself, do not let others decide for you, a church, Pastor, friend, ect. You must answer for your conscience, not theirs. It also takes away your right to judge others.

Rom. 8.13, "Nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything is unclean, to him it is unclean. That's clear and biblical. Nothing is unclean in itself. Clearly, sin can differ from individual as he views sin.

This often changes one way or the other as people grow and study scripture. If it does not break the law of love and you can be happy in your concscience, the bible says you can freely act, as long as you don't become a stumbling block for someone that is weaker. Somethings you may not do in front of a weaker person. However, if you doubt in your conscience, you should not act, until it is resolved, Cor. 8:12.

Eaach person must exercise their faith before God. Roms. 14: 22-23 "The faith you have, have as your OWN CONVICTION before God. "HAPPY is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."; This does two things. You are to base your decisions on love and not harming others, decide for yourself, do not let others decide for you, a church, Pastor, friend, ect. You must answer for your conscience, not theirs. It also takes away your right to judge others.

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It would be NICE if that were the whole truth. However, the teachings of the Apostles prohibition against sins were not cultural in there context. The warnings are clear

THOSE WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

We are called to Holiness. Finding the ability to walk in Holiness comes from learning to surrender to the Holy Spirit's influence which comes through continual attendance to the Word of God. Then is our joy full. When we abide in Him and our prayers are answered. "Abide in me and my words abide in you and you shall ask what you will and it shall be done unto you..." We are to grow from one point to another ever on becoming more like the expression of Christ in our own lives. It is the communion with God and fellowship of the Spirit that compels us to continue on in seeking Him. Even if and after we have strayed for a time, perhaps many times. There is nothing which satiates the soul and satisfies our inner longings like fellowship with God's Spirit. I believe God desires this for all of us. However, pursuant to that end God calls us to repent of the deeds of the flesh. To walk after the Spirit and not the flesh.

Simply put we can NOT attend both to God and the desires of the flesh.

I honestly don't understand what literalism has to do with legalism. A literal interpretation of the scripture is one of the safest guards against the various legalisms and other theological errors that one can come to if they interpret the text any way they want to, instead of following authoritative intent.

JWNEWMAN said:

It would be NICE if that were the whole truth. However, the teachings of the Apostles prohibition against sins were not cultural in there context. The warnings are clear

THOSE WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

We are called to Holiness. Finding the ability to walk in Holiness comes from learning to surrender to the Holy Spirit's influence which comes through continual attendance to the Word of God. Then is our joy full. When we abide in Him and our prayers are answered. "Abide in me and my words abide in you and you shall ask what you will and it shall be done unto you..." We are to grow from one point to another ever on becoming more like the expression of Christ in our own lives. It is the communion with God and fellowship of the Spirit that compels us to continue on in seeking Him. Even if and after we have strayed for a time, perhaps many times. There is nothing which satiates the soul and satisfies our inner longings like fellowship with God's Spirit. I believe God desires this for all of us. However, pursuant to that end God calls us to repent of the deeds of the flesh. To walk after the Spirit and not the flesh.

Simply put we can NOT attend both to God and the desires of the flesh.

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The bible is clear...love does no harm and fulfills ALL the law...there are no other codes, acts, rituals, ect. The law of love defines holiness, not robes, rituals, prayer, ect. Why I have no problem with any of those, anyone can do them.

Acts of sin,,,,each must decide for himself based on will his actions harm others. Certainly, Christ and others talked about these actions, adultery, stealing, ect...they are wrong because they harm others.

Some areas of sin may be sin for one, but not the other.
Take drinking...someone that drinks, can control their behavior and do no harm have that choice. However, if you are a drunk that can't control yourself and do harm, it would be sinful for you to drink.

The bible is clear...we judge using our own conscience, not others. Sadly, churches set rules, list of do's and dont's that have nothing to do with sin or holiness.