Primacy and formation of conscience

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tadoflamb

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I'm starting this thread in response to comments made in another thread about "how there is no such thing as a mortal sin, ask your priest". As much as I love and respect my priest this is one area where I have a disconnect betweeen what I hear on the parish level and what I hear from the Magisterium. My priest keeps refering to something called the "Primacy of Conscience", that is you can't go against your own conscience. We don't get a lot of moral teaching at my parish but are given a lot of freedom to form our own consciences. As I've come into the faith, my conscience has been formed by the teachings of the Catholic Church. Before I would allow myself to be confirmed, I had to change, but I've changed to come in line with Church. On some issues I have done a complete 180.

I'm wondering if any one can help me out with this idea of formation and primacy of conscience. Please feel free to use scripture and Church documents, and for the purposes of this thread, if we could keep the language clean, I would sure appreciate it.

Thanks and God bless,

Tad
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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I can't recall the article number offhand, but Aquinas argued for the primacy of conscience in the following way. Our consciences discern what is good and what is evil. If our consciences discern that to do something (or not do something) would be evil, we must not do it regardless of what authority tries to command us. To act contrary to our conscience would be to will what we see as evil, which would corrupt our will.
 
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benedictaoo

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What your pastor said is not what "Primacy of Conscience" means, Tad... You may enjoy reading this.

A ZENIT DAILY DISPATCH

Cardinal Pell on True and False Conscience

Synopsis of a Talk on Newman and a Drama

CHICAGO, 10 FEB. 2005 (ZENIT)
Australian Cardinal George Pell delivered an address to members of the Lumen Christi Institute at the University of Chicago last fall, on the "primacy of truth" and the "primacy of conscience." ZENIT offers this synopsis of the Sydney archbishop's speech.

* * *

Newman and the Drama of True and False Conscience
By Cardinal George Pell

Cardinal John Newman's view of conscience is far from that usually held by those who speak of "primacy of conscience" today. Newman believes a good Catholic conscience can never accept a position of dissent against central Church teaching. Moral truth is the key to conscience, and this is very difficult to deny coherently.

People who claim primacy of conscience rarely see the problems this raises in the moral life. Furthermore, this view causes a range of problems for the practice of the faith and for the Catholic sense of belonging. Newman's view of conscience has a more transcendent importance: Conscience is the normal means by which most people know of the existence of God. ...

People from across the theological spectrum would agree with Newman that conscience is "a connecting principle between the creature and his Creator" ("Grammar of Assent," Chapter 5). But while some see conscience as God's invitation to embrace his law as free subjects, others see it as a radical call to personal freedom. For many people today, conscience suggests freedom to judge God's law by our own personal resources and the right to reject the notion or reformulate this law as we think best.

I imagine that to non-Christians this must seem rather odd: If moral and religious teachings bind only to the extent that one's individual mind and will enthuse about them, then pretty clearly the teachings do not bind at all. What "binds" is simply the autonomous self, with all the limitations that our selves are prey to. And to say "I am bound by me" is hardly to make a meaningful moral utterance. Rather, it is to reject the need for morality and creed and to claim that I should be allowed to live as I choose within the constraints imposed by family, friends and society.

Of course, this theory is often dressed up with the claim that conscience is a special faculty that speaks to us, rather like an oracle. The theory may also be elevated to the status of a doctrine — the "primacy of conscience."

But annunciating grand titles does not change moral reality. Conscience is simply the mind thinking practically, thinking morally; the mind thinks well when we understand moral principles and apply them in clear and reasonable ways; the mind thinks badly when we ignore or reinvent moral principles, or apply them in ambiguous and unreasonable ways.

"Good conscience" simply means good grasp and good application of moral truths — it is the truth that is primary, it is the truth that is grasped and applied by the practical mind, or, if you prefer, by the conscience. ...

Newman carefully distinguishes himself from those who equate conscience with integrity, sincerity or preference. In the famous passage of the "Letter to the Duke of Norfolk" (Part 5), which the Catechism (1778) part-quotes, he writes: "Conscience is not a long-sighted selfishness, nor a desire to be consistent with oneself; but it is a messenger from Him, Who, both in nature and grace, speaks to us behind a veil, and teaches and rules us by His representatives. Conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ."

When we receive messages, we listen to them. We do not make them up and reword them to reflect what we wish had been said. If we disagree with the Church's message so seriously that we cannot follow its terms, then we cannot reinvent it to make it easier or more palatable.

Rather, we enter into a period of prayer, study and inquiry to try to understand the message and to understand why we find ourselves opposed to it. And we should realize that if the matter that puzzles us is one of a binding Church teaching or a central moral teaching, then prayer and study of this may be a lifetime's work.

A Catholic conscience cannot accept a settled position against the Church, at least on a central moral teaching. Any difficulties with Church teaching should be not the end of the matter but the beginning of a process of conversion, education and quite possibly repentance. Where a Catholic disagrees with the Church on some serious matter, the response should not be "that's that; I can't follow the Church here"; instead we should kneel and pray that God will lead our weak steps and enlighten our fragile minds, as Newman recommends in Sermon 17 — "The Testimony of Conscience."

Of course, Newman's view of conscience is profoundly counterintuitive to modern ears. For Newman, conscience is objective, hard work, a challenge to self, a call to conversion, a sign of humility; and this sits uncomfortably for those who see freedom as the right to reject what is unpalatable. Many will say: "You can interpret conscience this way if you want to — I'll even defend your right to do so! But my own view is very different."

The only answer to this is to explain and to defend the existence of moral truth. In theory, this should not be too difficult. After all, everyone agrees that there is a basic truth of the matter in cases of social justice, children's protection, the immorality of torture, lying and cheating in public life, and so on.

But the twist is that many people who accept moral truths in some area of life reject moral truth especially in areas such as sexual morality, and perhaps also in life issues such as abortion and euthanasia. Moral truth is a great ally when it is on your side; but when it grates against your own convenience it can be tempting to treat it as an anachronism. But either there are or there are not moral truths, and if there are, these will have something to say about unpopular matters as well as more fashionable causes. ...

The Pope argues that in their consciences human persons encounter moral truth, freely embrace it, and personally commit themselves to its enactment. This account (see "Veritatis Splendor," 54-64) builds upon Newman's theory of conscience as man's free adoption of God's law. Conscience is neither apprehending an alien law nor devising our own laws: rather, conscience is freely accepting the objective moral law as the basis of all our choices. Thus forming and following a Christian conscience is a dignifying and liberating experience; it means not resentfully following God's law but freely embracing it as our life's ideal. ...

This specifically Catholic view rejects the mistaken primacy of conscience doctrine and clearly asserts the primacy of truth. The Pope writes: "In any event, it is always from the truth that the dignity of conscience derives. In the case of the correct conscience, it is a question of the objective truth received by man; in the case of the erroneous conscience, it is a question of what man, mistakenly, subjectively considers to be true. It is never acceptable to confuse a 'subjective' error about moral good with the 'objective' truth rationally proposed to man in virtue of his end, or to make the moral value of an act performed with a true and correct conscience equivalent to the moral value of an act performed by following the judgment of an erroneous conscience" ("Veritatis Splendor," 63).

Newman and John Paul II, from their very different traditions of Anglo and Continental philosophy, reach the same conclusion: Conscience is the free grasp of objective law. Some would pay lip service to the great work of Newman, saying, "Yes, I accept the moral truth — I just reject the particular set of moral truths that the Church proposes."

This approach to morality has been tried many times before. The endorsement of law as "form" which then allows us to reject any determinate "content" and to construct our own content is common to various subjectivists, intuitionists and Kantians. It is found too in the still-influential writings of Lawrence Kohlberg.

For the earlier Kohlberg at least, morality is simply certain rational constraints upon freedom; morality is content-free requirements of form upon our reason. Kohlberg himself equivocated over whether morality is truly empty of content, or gives at least a little guidance. It is certainly hard to take seriously the notion of morality as contentless-logic — a kind of color-in-the-picture-for-yourself ethics.

Anyone in a real life situation that requires moral strength, honesty, and accuracy would surely be repelled by the advice that "morality has nothing to say about the details of your choice; it's all up to you." This is purely abandonment of people when they most need and expect guidance. ...

In a recent response to an article by Brian Lewis on "The Primacy of Conscience in the Roman Catholic Tradition" (Pacifica, 13 (3), 2000, 299-309), Frank Mobbs states: "if conscience is not so to speak looking at itself, then it is looking for objective truth" (cf. "Brian Lewis on Conscience," a paper delivered to the Catholic Moral Theology Association of Australia and New Zealand, last July 6).

The point is that no one — at least, no Christian — believes conscience simply asserts the first thing that comes into our heads. Conscience looks for real answers to our questions; and where can it look except to the truth? But then the value of conscience surely lies not in conscience itself but in the objective truth to which conscience looks for answers. It is the truth that is primary, and it is from the truth that conscience takes its value.

Searching for a needle in a haystack may be diligent, but what gives the search point and value is the importance to us of the needle. Conscience only matters because truth matters to us passionately.

So, conscientious thinking matters to Christians because objective truth is so important to us. Why would we take conscientious belief seriously at all unless we believed it represented access to objective truth? After all, the bare fact that it is my private belief is of no moral significance whatsoever. It matters because objective truth matters. ...

Much of the debate over conscience in Catholic circles focuses on the possibility of a conscience against the Church's teaching. This seems to me a peculiar notion. For a start, it would mean that dissenters believed that following the Church on, for example, contraception or same-sex relationships, would actually give them a guilty conscience, not just frustrated wishes. Yet it seems clear that most dissenters do not fear guilt if they obey the Church: What they fear is precisely the frustration of their unsatisfied wishes. ...

On many occasions Newman explained that true conscience recognizes an external Being, who obliges us to perform certain actions and avoid others (for example, see "An Essay in Aid of a Grammar of Assent," edited by I.T. Ker [Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1985], pp. 40, 47, 72-83). The mind is carried beyond itself to the idea of a future tribunal, where reward and punishment will be assigned. From our inadequacies we envision the need for redemption and atonement. ...

Nonetheless, a false notion of conscience has helped to carry many away from Catholic practice and indeed from Catholic faith. If there are two opposing versions of conscience, and there are, this is the obverse side to Newman's claim that true conscience helps us to recognize the One True God.

A debased notion of conscience, a barely concealed enthusiasm for autonomy disguised as an appeal to the primacy of conscience, weakens our sense of obligation, damages our purity of heart, and makes it harder and harder to see God. ZE05021023
 
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QuantaCura

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First off, conscience is not involved in judging a particular truth (that's reason and faith), but in making a decision in a concrete situation given the truth that is known by those means.

Here is an excellent letter on this topic by Cardinal Newman (it's cited in the CCC on the topic):

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/section5.html

Also, for a more in depth look, check out this encyclical by John Paul II:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/j...jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

Lastly, St. Catherine of Siena said conscience is like a guard dog--he barks to alert you to evil. However, if you don't feed him he becomes weak, often too weak to bark. Then, with our conscience silenced by our own negligence, we are susceptible to follow our disordered passions instead, often using our wounded reason to justify it.

The food for our conscience is the word of God as proclaimed by the Church.
 
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benedictaoo

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Reiterating.

When we receive messages, we listen to them. We do not make them up and reword them to reflect what we wish had been said. If we disagree with the Church's message so seriously that we cannot follow its terms, then we cannot reinvent it to make it easier or more palatable.

Rather, we enter into a period of prayer, study and inquiry to try to understand the message and to understand why we find ourselves opposed to it. And we should realize that if the matter that puzzles us is one of a binding Church teaching or a central moral teaching, then prayer and study of this may be a lifetime's work.

A Catholic conscience cannot accept a settled position against the Church, at least on a central moral teaching. Any difficulties with Church teaching should be not the end of the matter but the beginning of a process of conversion, education and quite possibly repentance. Where a Catholic disagrees with the Church on some serious matter, the response should not be "that's that; I can't follow the Church here"; instead we should kneel and pray that God will lead our weak steps and enlighten our fragile minds, as Newman recommends in Sermon 17 — "The Testimony of Conscience."
 
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AMDG

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Lastly, St. Catherine of Siena said conscience is like a guard dog--he barks to alert you to evil. However, if you don't feed him he becomes weak, often too weak to bark. Then, with our conscience silenced by our own negligence, we are susceptible to follow our disordered passions instead, often using our wounded reason to justify it.

The food for our conscience is the word of God as proclaimed by the Church.

:amen:

You know, IMO, those that insist on "Primacy of Conscience" are right...up to a point and only to a point. They just have neglected to mention that our conscience must be formed--and it must be formed by the Magisterium and we have a responsibility to do so. It does not mean that a person has license to do whatever he/she wants and therefore commits no sinful act as long as his conscience doesn't bother him.
 
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QuantaCura

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Reiterating.

Right. When most people say that their conscience can't accept some particular doctrine, what they are really saying is they personally find it unreasonable--and they do this with truths that should not be approached with reason alone, but rather with faith, which purifies our wounded reason of error.
 
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benedictaoo

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Right. When most people say that their conscience can't accept some particular doctrine, what they are really saying is they personally find it unreasonable--and they do this with truths that should not be approached with reason alone, but rather wuth faith, which purifies our wounded reason of error.
which is why I like this line.
And we should realize that if the matter that puzzles us is one of a binding Church teaching or a central moral teaching, then prayer and study of this may be a lifetime's work.

I think as long as we don't walk away from the Church with our minds made up that the Church is wrong and we can never accept it, we're alright.
 
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Rebekka

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I appreciate all posts so far, especially #3, but I want to comment on one thing.
benedicta said:
Much of the debate over conscience in Catholic circles focuses on the possibility of a conscience against the Church's teaching. This seems to me a peculiar notion. For a start, it would mean that dissenters believed that following the Church on, for example, contraception or same-sex relationships, would actually give them a guilty conscience, not just frustrated wishes. Yet it seems clear that most dissenters do not fear guilt if they obey the Church: What they fear is precisely the frustration of their unsatisfied wishes. ...
I think it truly is possible to feel guilt when following church teaching over one's own conscience. Not all reasons to disobey the church are selfish. I know that guilt has a lot to do with it in my case. Don't want to explain the precise details, but it has to do with choosing the lesser of two evils. And yes, I know, it's never allowed to do something that the church considers to be intrinsically evil, but you know what, there are two alternatives in my case, and they're both a LOT worse. And I mean a LOT.

I think as long as we don't walk away from the Church with our minds made up that the Church is wrong and we can never accept it, we're alright.
Well, I'm always open for suggestions, and I'll always keep on praying about this, and I'm never 10000% sure that the church is wrong. I'm just doing the best I can right now. :sorry:
 
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panterapat

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There is something important missing here in the Primacy of the Conscience discussion.

We must follow our conscience it is true. But only if it is a PROPERLY INFORMED conscience.

And the properly informed conscience will be one that is in conformity with the teachings of Christ and those of His Catholic Church.
 
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JoabAnias

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I'm wondering if any one can help me out with this idea of formation and primacy of conscience.

It sounds like you have taken care to form your conscience correctly. That said:

The conscience is the faculty by which we apply moral principles to concrete situations.

The conscience does not come up with the moral principles; it applies them to real situations.

An excellent guide to this is Veritatis Splendor, an encyclical of John Paul II.

Also:

Vatican II's Declaration on Religious Freedom (Dignitatis Humanae) makes some reference to freedom of conscience. For instance, in paragraph 3, it says:

In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious.

And from the CCC:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

God and the Church have no desire to stifle the free thought of Catholics but place limitations on those behaviors that cause harm and by doing so help Christians to mature into saints.


Peace.
 
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helenofbritain

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What your pastor said is not what "Primacy of Conscience" means, Tad... You may enjoy reading this.

A ZENIT DAILY DISPATCH

Cardinal Pell on True and False Conscience

Synopsis of a Talk on Newman and a Drama

CHICAGO, 10 FEB. 2005 (ZENIT)
Australian Cardinal George Pell delivered an address to members of the Lumen Christi Institute at the University of Chicago last fall, on the "primacy of truth" and the "primacy of conscience." ZENIT offers this synopsis of the Sydney archbishop's speech.

Cardinal Pell rocks!

Thanks for this Michelle :hug:
 
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helenofbritain

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Isn't he Australian and another Australian liberal priest was trying to bring him down?
He is Australian. Hence (part of the reason) why he rocks. He's in Sydney. I'm two hours north.

I don't know if anyone's been trying to take him down... I'd like to think I would have heard... do you have any more details?
 
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benedictaoo

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Yeah...
Cardinal's "Primacy of Conscience" comments still drawing flack


Despite having more carefully nuanced his controversial comments of a few years ago on "primacy of conscience", Cardinal Pell's controversial proposal to overturn this element of Catholic teaching is still drawing flack. Fr Frank Brennan SJ delivered a paper to the Australian Catholic Movement for Intellectual and Cultural Affairs on 10th June challenging the Archbishop's point of view.

The Archbishop first aired his thoughts at a seminar at Latrobe University some years ago and these were picked up and published in The Bulletin magazine. More recently at an address to the Catalyst for Renewal Bishop's forum on 31st May last year he was even more forthright in calling for this element of Church teaching to be overturned saying "In the past I have been in trouble for stating that the so called doctrine of the primacy of conscience should be quietly dropped. I would like to reconsider my position here and now state that I believe that this misleading doctrine of the primacy of conscience should be publicly rejected.".

That particular address led to considerable discussion in academic and intellectual circles in Australia and a strong article by Fr Andrew Hamilton SJ, published in Eureka Street challenging the proposition put forward by the Archbishop.

Subsequent to that, Cardinal Pell delivered an address in Philadelphia where he seemed to more carefully nuance his comments saying:

"My basic object is twofold: a) to explain that increasingly, even in Catholic circles, the appeal to the primacy of conscience is being used to justify what we would like to do rather than to discover what God wants us to do; and b) to claim that conscience does not have primacy. One should say that the word of God has primacy or that truth has primacy, and that a person uses his conscience to discern the truth in particular cases. Individual conscience cannot confer the right to reject or distort New Testament morality as affirmed or developed by the Church. To use the language of Veritatis Splendor, conscience is 'the proximate norm of personal morality' whose authority in its voice and judgement 'derives from the truth about moral good and evil'"

Unfortunately the copies of the full addresses the Archbishop made are no longer available on the Sydney Archdiocesan website.

Fr Frank Brennan has now renewed the debate with an address on "A Catholic Social Conscience: Can it be Reclaimed in Our Time?" where he argues "Presently, there is a conflict in the Australian Catholic community about the primacy of conscience. It may simply be a difference of perspective, some seeing the glass half-full and warning against the limits of conscience in coming to truth, and others seeing the glass half-empty and espousing the potential of conscience in living the truth."

Fr Brennan goes on to argue: "The Church teaching on conscience gives no consolation to the uninitiated thinking they can simply do their own thing. But neither does it accord religious authorities the liberty of insisting upon wooden compliance with their instruction or view of the world. Good conscience must always be accorded primacy even by bishops who would act differently in the circumstances, bearing in mind John Henry Newman’s observation that 'conscience is not a judgment upon...any abstract doctrine ... but bears immediately on something to be done or not done'."

Some might argue that this has been the most interesting, stimulating, and possibly invigorating debate to go on in the Catholic Church in Australia for more than forty years.

SOURCE – FULL ADDRESS:
ACMICA/UNIYA – A Catholic Social Conscience: Can it be Reclaimed in Our Time? Symposium, ACU, North Sydney, 10th June

SEE ALSO:
Eureka Street – Debates about primacy of conscience illustrate the necessity for a passion both for truth and for freedom
ACMICA website


Unfortunately the Cardinal's addresses no longer seem to be available online.

16 Jun 2004
 
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helenofbritain

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Thanks! I must've missed that particular drama...

Cardinal Pell is very orthodox - and he doesn't pull his punches, which makes him unpopular with some people. On the whole I think he's quite well respected.

But some people are always going to complain.

Hurrah :doh:
 
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helenofbritain

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