The Double Cure

"There simply arent any *LOL"

Yup, there are, I showed you one in mark

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"There simply arent any *LOL"

Yup, there are, I showed you one in mark

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NO you did not Louis.

What if I were to say there are many marbles in your head. Would you argue and so, NO, there are only some?   

Louis, you seem to have more faith in the lepers asking than you do in Jesus granting.  I don't understand why you believe the way you do but Jesus whom I serve treats me much better than that.  And no matter how many times you point me to scriptures that you've twisted word meanings I will not change that view.  If you preach scripture exactly, then I'll listen, but not until.

What He did on the cross for us all was complete.  There is absoulutely nothing else we can do as a human to make it any more complete. It's impossible to have an illness that could make His suffering more complete.  He did it all.  Body, soul, and spirit. 

Yes, He's more interested in our soul, but once He has that, what is the point of purposely leaving our body's in dispair.  Or taking an already saved soul and making the body sick.  People give glory to God, not events in time.  It's the devil who kills, steals, and destroys.  Not God.

2 Cor 1:19-20says, NIV: For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by me and Silas adn Timothy, was not "Yes" and "No, ' but in him it has always been "Yes." For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ.  And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

NASB: For the Son of God, Christ Jesusk, who was preached among you by us- -by me and Silvanus and Timothy- - was not yes and no, but is yes in Him.  For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefor also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us.

AMP: For the Son of God, Christ Jesus (the Messiah), Who has been preached among you by us, by myself, Silvanus, and Timothy, was not Yes and NO; but in Him it is [alwasy the divine] Yes.  For as many as are the promises of God, they all find their Yes [answer] in Him [Christ].  For this reason we also utter the Amen(so be it) to God through Him [in His Person and by His agency] to the glory of God.

NKJ: For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us--by me, Silvanus, and Timothy--was not Yes and NO, but in Him was Yes.  For all the pormises of Gdo in Him are Yes, and in HIm Amen, to the glory of God through us. 


You have yet to show any of us "real scripture" that backs up what you preach.  You are quite good at confusing the english language and turning it to every possible concept, but conclude that only yours is correct.  But what if it is'nt?  What if it is you who is misunderstaning the scripture?  Are you even open to that possibility.

I've just given you 4 different versions of the same scripture that say exactly what we are saying. They are'nt twisted or paraphrased by me.  And it appears to me Louis, that you are in direct contradiction of them. 

James 5:15 NKJV says, And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up;"  You're in direct contradiction to this one too.

Louis, I believe it is you who is wrong.  And I've not had to elude to hidden meanings in proving it with scripture.  

"If you preach scripture exactly, then I'll listen, but not until. "

Been doing that since I got here..as Christ says, Those with ears let them hear

Its clear in Mark we see christ not healing everyone. Now you have 2 choices.

1. You can say christ was human and got tired, but as a subpoint you have to admit then he can get sick if he can get tired..both part of the human condition

2. He refused to heal everyone.

"what is the point of purposely leaving our body's in dispair. "

what's the point? LOL. Dear quaf, don't you realize your body will waste away? why? BECAUSE ITS PERISHABLE. If you're a christian you'll get a new body. that's exactly why we shouldn't worry about it. Keep it in good health as best you can, but if its sick that doesn't mean anything, just means you're sick.

"It's impossible to have an illness that could make His suffering more complete. "

LOL, so now you're saying we shouldn't suffer at all? How unbiblical are you going to get?

"You have yet to show any of us "real scripture" that backs up what you preach."

Just because you don't agree with me don't lie and say I haven't given scripture to back it up. I have given it when it is called for many many times.

"And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up"

I agree it will SAVE THEM. Says NOTHING about healing now does it? As stated in Ecc 7:14 you will live through it. As stated in the Pslams, you WILL go through the valley of the shadow of death. As stated in JOhn 9 sickness HAS NOTHING to do with sin.

"Louis, I believe it is you who is wrong. "

Okay, Quaf, I believe you are wrong and I have not had to elude to hidden meanings in proving it with scripture.

Jesus healed people when He preceived that they had the faith to believe for their healing. Divine faith of course means they had the Holy Spirit.

Jesus set an example for us to follow. In every way, we are to be like Him. He want about healing the sick and doing good, and so we are to do the same.

James 5:15 NKJV says, And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up;"


Does'nt the bolded part mean their healed?

James 5:15 NKJV says, And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up;"  

Raise:

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 1453 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ejgeivrw probably akin to the base of (58) (through the idea of collecting one's faculties)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Egeiro 2:333,195
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
eg-i'-ro Verb

Definition
to arouse, cause to rise
to arouse from sleep, to awake
to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life
to cause to rise from a seat or bed etc.
to raise up, produce, cause to appear
to cause to appear, bring before the public
to raise up, stir up, against one
to raise up i.e. cause to be born
of buildings, to raise up, construct, erect

Originally posted by Andrew
Great points Quaffie!

Just dont think you should waste it on those who cant appreciate it. Let them be.

My Pastor shared this verse recently:

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Strong's
3135 pearls

1) a pearl
2) a proverb, i.e. a word of great value

2662 trample

1) to tread down, trample under foot, to trample on
2) metaph. to treat with rudeness and insult
2a) to spurn, treat with insulting neglect

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Thank's Andrew, and you are correct.    I'll try to keep it down, they just make it so easy to prove wrong. 

"He want about healing the sick and doing good, and so we are to do the same."

Actaually he went about his father's business, and that was preaching about the coming of the kingdom He healed some people ONLY because they doubted his ability to forgive sins.

Great definations Quaf, and I agree, they can be saved, doesn't say anything about healing though.

Yes, I agree with you quaf, you do make it easy for me to prove you wrong, that's usually what the bible does to false ideas

I'd urge you to do more work with the greek and hebrew and not the english. You're drawing conclusions from a translated word, and maybe missing out on the full meaning of the verse because of that and drawing faulty conclusions.

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The scripture needs to be read by the Holy Spirit. Not by some comentary or Your limited understanding of Greek and Hebrew. Louis it is obvious that man can twist anything to make it appear to say what they want. But you can not twist the Holy Spirit. His light always shines in the darkness and reveals the truth, but the darkness comprehend it not. Those who abide in the darkness of their own understanding will never understand the things of the Spirit for they are spiritually discerned. The Bible must be spiritually discerned. They are like a second grader trying to figure out Algebra by himself. I don't care how many book you get on the subject or how many of your little friends you get to agree with you, unless there is a teaching from the Spirit then there is no understanding, and what you think that you know is folly. The Spirit will lead you into all truth, so you don't need a bunch of books to help you figure it out. We cannot relie upon our own understanding.

I shall bring forth an article for thou.

1 Pet. 2:24 -- Peter continues writing about the sacrifice of Jesus and how that affects all Christians and should motivate us to follow His example. Here Peter says that not only is the suffering of Christ an example for us, but His death actually took away our sins! He Himself "bare" our sins in his own body. The word "bare" includes the idea of putting a sacrifice on the altar. Jesus, as the high priest of Christianity (Heb. 8:1), offered not an animal as the Old Testament system dictated, but rather "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many" (Heb. 9:28). "By his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us" (Heb. 9:12). Jesus became both priest and sacrifice, to appear before the throne of God and offer His own blood to pay the penalty for our sins. This sacrifice literally involved his body, hanging on the "tree," a word that refers to something made of wood -- a figurative reference to the cross, which was made of wood.

The result of this sacrifice is that we can die to sin and live unto righteousness. That is, sin will no longer dominate our lives because we are made free from its bondage (Rom. 6:11-18). Peter closes 1 Pet. 2:24 with another allusion to Isa. 53, this time, Isa. 53:5 -- "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." The stripes here are singular in the Greek, probably indicating that Peter is considering the suffering and sacrifice of Jesus as a whole.

The healing spoken of here is spiritual in nature. Many religious people who believe in present-day miracles claim that this healing is physical; they say that the atonement of Jesus Christ enables us to be free from disease, which does not fit what the Scriptures teach. Notice that Isa. 53:4 says, "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted." This passage is quoted in Matt. 8:17 in a context of the miraculous healing of Jesus. However, Isa. 53:5 is nowhere quoted in any such context. In fact, the only place in the New Testament where these words are quoted is here in 1 Pet. 2, which is speaking of healing the sin-sick soul. Thus the healing should be understood spiritually. The atonement brought salvation from sin, not freedom from physical disease.

Peter is here explaining to us the importance of the death of Christ. While the world seems to put more emphasis on His birth (especially at the end of each year), the Bible emphasizes His death. Early Christians met each first day of the week to commemorate the Lord's death in the memorial of the communion (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 11:26). The cross of Christ is the pivotal point in all of human history. Was this cruel Roman execution necessary? Absolutely yes! Jesus had to die so we could enjoy remission of sins. The Hebrews writer affirmed that "without shedding of blood is no remission" (Heb. 9:22). Zechariah spoke of the "fountain" that would be opened "for sin and for uncleanness" (Zech. 13:1), which prophecy was fulfilled when the soldier pierced the side of Jesus with his spear and out flowed the precious blood (John 19:34). Jesus is "the lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). He shed his blood "for many for the remission of sins" (Matt. 26:28). Now we can be "washed" ("loosed," ASV) from our sins in the blood of Jesus (Rev. 1:5).

Peter tells us that it was God's eternal purpose to send Jesus to die for us:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers: but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." (1 Pet. 1:18-20).

Jesus said, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me" (John 6:38). God warned the devil in Eden that one day the seed of woman would crush the power of evil (Gen. 3:15). This prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus, after living a sinless life, died, was buried, and arose from the grave the third day (1 Cor. 15:1-4). These events took away the "sting of death" (cf. 1 Cor. 15:55-56). Jesus destroyed "him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Heb. 2:14), and Jesus died in order to reconcile mankind to God (1 Pet. 3:18; cf. 2 Cor. 5:15-21; Eph. 2:13-18).

When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, they were separated from the Almighty, because sin separates us from God (Isa. 59:1-2). The perfect and beautiful harmony of the creature with the Creator was broken. It took the death of Christ on the cross to provide the way for man to return to God (Eph. 2:16). Paul wrote, "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Rom. 5:10). Let us praise God for His infinite love and mercy, and praise Jesus our Lord for His willingness to offer His life that we might never die that we might never be separated eternally from God. "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich" (2 Cor. 8:9).

"For God so loved the word, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved" (John 3:16-17).

Now that we have the way of salvation provided for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, we should "live unto righteousness," as Peter said. We need to continue "stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine" (Acts 2:42). We must be "stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord" (1 Cor. 15:58). Peter wrote that we are to live "...as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" (1 Pet. 1:14-16). Paul admonished us to "live soberly, righteously, and godly" (Titus 2:12). John exhorts us, "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7). We must "abstain from all appearance of evil" (1 Thess. 5:22), "depart from iniquity" (2 Tim. 2:19), and keep ourselves "unspotted from the world" (James 1:27). Let us be "zealous of good works" (Titus 2:14). "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" (Matt. 5:8).

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Great definations Quaf, and I agree, they can be saved, doesn't say anything about healing though.

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Louis, 

I pasted and copied from the Strongs Concordance.  Are you saying it's wrong too? Please look more carefully at the bolded part.  Appairently it did not stand out enough for you before.

Definition of the word rise as used in James 5:15.


to arouse, cause to rise
to arouse from sleep, to awake
to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life
to cause to rise from a seat or bed etc.
to raise up, produce, cause to appear
to cause to appear, bring before the public
to raise up, stir up, against one
to raise up i.e. cause to be born
of buildings, to raise up, construct, erect

Andrew I just posted an article on the topic I did not say which way the words in Isa 53:4 were translated.

I took a quick look at this verse Mat 8:16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He Himself took our infirmities And bore our sicknesses."

It says here that he fullfills the prophecy in Isa by doing this. By healing the sick and casting out deamons. I may get myself into trouble since I have took a good long look at it but seems to be only refering to Jesus doing this in Isa and that is exactly what he did when he was on the earth. Hence he fullfilled the prophecy. When you look at 1Peter 2:24 it seem obivous that it is not talking about the physical here. There are several examples of godly men in the NT that were sick or somehthing wrong with them and were not healed from it. These being very Godly men if anyone would of had their sickness taken care of it would of been them. Thats all I have time to say for now because I am at work right now.

Later,
Cougan

"to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life "

Exactly, sleep of death is not healing, its death, and that is only ONE of 5 or 6 possible translations. I don't see the word Healing in there either recall dead to life can mean dead in sin.

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life "

Exactly, sleep of death is not healing, its death, and that is only ONE of 5 or 6 possible translations. I don't see the word Healing in there either recall dead to life can mean dead in sin.

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to arouse from the sleep of death, to recall the dead to life

Do you need definitions for the bolded words Louis?

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"He want about healing the sick and doing good, and so we are to do the same."

Actaually he went about his father's business, 

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"Actaually" I was just paraphrasing. I do not always feel a need to look up the scripture, but I will get it for you now. As far as being about His Father's business. That was a quote from when He was 12 years old and His family could not find Him. When they did find Him about three days later, he was at the temple, talking to the priest there.

Acts 10:38  How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Matthew 9:35 Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

I looked up "all" in the dictionary and this is what it says: "Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity".

Also, I looked up "every" is says: "Constituting each and all members of a group without exception."

Some people want to rewrite the dictionary to suit their theology. But "all" means each and every one, "every" means without exception.

As I said before and I am sure I will say again. Jesus is life and health and healing. If you can get Jesus into someone, He will heal them. The problem is, to many people want healed and they do not want Jesus. We are in the healing ministry and so we see it all the time.

Often people feed on so much junk that there is not even any room in them for Jesus. If they have a choice between reading their Bible or watching some junk on TV, they watch TV. Then when they are sick they expect Jesus to heal them. If He does not heal them, then rather than to face the truth, that they need to get right with God. They go right on in their sin and say it's not God's will to heal them.

This is a time of apostasy, deception and the love of many is turning cold. We got to quit praying church and get serious about getting right with God.
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Originally posted by JohnR7
"Actaually" I was just paraphrasing. I do not always feel a need to look up the scripture, but I will get it for you now. As far as being about His Father's business. That was a quote from when He was 12 years old and His family could not find Him. When they did find Him about three days later, he was at the temple, talking to the priest there.

Acts 10:38&nbsp; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Matthew 9:35&nbsp;Then Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

I looked up "all" in the dictionary and this is what it says: "Being or representing the entire or total number, amount, or quantity".

Also, I looked up "every" is says: "Constituting each and all members of a group without exception."

Some people want to rewrite the dictionary to suit their theology. But "all" means&nbsp;each and every one, "every" means without exception.

As I said before and I am sure I will say again. Jesus is life and health and healing. If you&nbsp;can get Jesus into someone, He will heal them. The problem is, to many people want healed and they do not want Jesus. We are in the healing ministry and so we see it all the time.

Often people feed on so&nbsp;much junk that there is not even any room in them for Jesus.&nbsp;If they have a choice between reading their Bible or watching some junk on TV, they watch TV. Then when they are sick they expect Jesus to heal them. If He does not heal them, then rather than to face the truth, that they need to get right with God. They go right on in their sin and say it's not God's will to heal them.

This is a time of apostasy, deception and the love of many is turning cold. We got to quit praying church and get serious about getting right with God.
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You are right on JohnR7.&nbsp;

And I&nbsp;know that every one of us has been in that spot too.&nbsp; We know what we're talking about.&nbsp; We've been in the same dilemmas as everyone else.&nbsp; At least I know I have.

All through my walk with God (about 45 years now) I've found myself in situations where I was screaming out for God to help me.&nbsp; Often times He showed me how I had brought the situation on myself.&nbsp; How if I'd paid attention when He'd tried to warn me about impending danger and I ignored that voice and went on my merry way and then got hurt.&nbsp;

That does not make me an awfull person.&nbsp; What it does mean is that I need to learn more about hearing God and then act upon what I learn.&nbsp;&nbsp;If I don't learn to listen to His voice in the small situations, how am I ever gonna hear His voice when it really counts?

If I had listened to that voice telling me not to watch that program I would'nt be fighting with the images in my head right now while I'm trying to pray.&nbsp; Was is God's fault I ignored Him?&nbsp; No. It was mine.

If I continue to eat poorly then I will reap the repercussions of poor eating.&nbsp; Is that God's will for my life? &nbsp;It is not.&nbsp; Did God allow it?&nbsp; Well, we have the choice of either obeying or disobeying.&nbsp; So I would say, I'm the one responsible.&nbsp; Not the devil, and definately not God.

So, someone speaks&nbsp;the Word and the hearer&nbsp;chooses to get depressed about it and then blames the speaker&nbsp;for their depression, cause' if they'ed&nbsp;never said anything then they, the hearer would be feeling good about themselves right now.&nbsp; So now it's the speakers&nbsp;fault that their depressed over their sins.

It's all there in the Word.&nbsp; If we&nbsp;read it for ourselves&nbsp;instead of eating only on&nbsp;what the&nbsp;pastor feeds us&nbsp;on Sunday mornings we would see more of Jesus in our&nbsp;life.&nbsp;

If we spent more time in fellowship with God instead of those little quickie devo's that we read through in 1 minute, we&nbsp;would be walking and talking more like Jesus instead of crying in our&nbsp;spiritual beer and blaming everyone else for the dung we're lying in.

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Originally posted by Quaffer
You are right on JohnR7.&nbsp;&nbsp;

Often times He showed me how I had brought the situation on myself.&nbsp; How if I'd paid attention when He'd tried to warn me about impending danger and I ignored that voice and went on my merry way and then got hurt.&nbsp;&nbsp;

I need to learn more about hearing God and then act upon what I learn.&nbsp;&nbsp;If I don't learn to listen to His voice in the small situations, how am I ever gonna hear His voice when it really counts?

It's all there in the Word.&nbsp; If we&nbsp;read it for ourselves&nbsp;instead of eating only on&nbsp;what the&nbsp;pastor feeds us&nbsp;on Sunday mornings we would see more of Jesus in our&nbsp;life.&nbsp;&nbsp;

* spent more time in fellowship with God*&nbsp;
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Yes, that is exactly it. It is twice as hard to seek after God if we wait 'tell we get ourselves in trouble to seek after Him. It is so much better to be there to listen when He calls us. To allow Him to prepare us for the trouble ahead so we are ready. Or even to allow Him to prepare us for the work and the ministry He has for us to do.

I really enjoy being a fair weather christian. I like to seek after God when the weather is good and the going is easy. I do not like to wait for a storm to hit, so I have to do my seeking doing difficult times.

Isaiah 55:6-7&nbsp;Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: [7] Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

I have just made to many "mistakes" in my life. I am just not able to do it on my own. My agenda just does not work. I am ready to serve God, and do it His way. Allow Him to do a work in me, because I know that when Jesus does the work, Jesus never fails.

Of course I need the stuffing knocked out of self, and it is not always&nbsp;so easy to yield and&nbsp;submit when we want to pamper ourselves with comfort. BUT:

Proverbs 6:9-11
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? [10] Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: [11] So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.

That is why we need to press on to obtain all that He has and wants for us. I do not know about a walk with God, sometimes it is more of a run. I want my heart to match His heartbeat. It keeps my heart healthy when&nbsp;I match my heart to&nbsp;His.

Daily I need to get my biggest cup and scoop up His love from the river of life and drink deeply from it. Because all we need is packaged in with His love and apart from His love we have nothing. &nbsp;


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