how is evolution NOT possible?

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

I said:

You said

I called you a YEC then you said:

If you are not a YEC then why is time limiting the ability of natural selection to do what evolution tells us?

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How long did it take (in years) from the time this earth was created, to the time homo sapien first appeared?

Do scientists have an answer for that question?

If the answer is more than 100 years, then it didn't happen.

This earth may be 4.55 billion years old, but it has only been in existence for 6100.

AV1611VET said:

This earth may be 4.55 billion years old, but it has only been in existence for 6100.

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You lost me on that one. That's as direct a contradiction as I have ever seen.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

You lost me on that one. That's as direct a contradiction as I have ever seen.

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Here's just one of my many posts on this:

CLICK HERE

It's like saying a 6'3 tall person is also 0.0000036" tall.

atrijez said:

is that true? is hinduism just a shell of what it used to be?

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Unless my head is buried in the sand, I don't believe Hinduism is a big thing anymore.

When was the last time you ever heard anyone:

• having their own guru
• achieving Nirvana
• transmigrating
• being born an Untouchable

atrijez said:

... and by your own admission, islam might be as strong now as ever.

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Militarily, yes; but as a viable religion, it's getting old, IMO.

atrijez said:

... honestly, i've always considered christianity to have become very watered down. i mean, if you compare the modern day christian attitude with a christian attitude from a thousand years ago, they're radically different.

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I'll agree with you here to a point. 1000 years ago the different sects were a lot closer due to persecution; but today, our Christian churches are so infected with "the tares" that it's getting hard to find a good church anymore.

BUT --- this is exactly what God predicted, and He is not being taken by surprise.

[bible]1 Timothy 4:1[/bible]

He will have the final say --- and soon.

AV1611VET said:

Unless my head is buried in the sand, I don't believe Hinduism is a big thing anymore.

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break out the shovel:
"It is considered the world's "oldest extant religion,"and has approximately a billion adherents, of whom about 890 million live in India, placing it as the world's third largest religion after Christianity and Islam."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

When was the last time you ever heard anyone:

• having their own guru
• achieving Nirvana
• transmigrating
• being born an Untouchable

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Nirvana is a buddhist concept.

"Evolution" is a broad term. In this form we are obliged to answer "yes and no." MICRO evolution is irrefutable - just look that the canine and feline genera. But there is serious problem defending MACRO evolution - the development of "simple" to "higher" forms of life. A lot has been learned since Darwin. "Simple" life is not so simple. DNA itself is wonderfully complex. Add the complexity of RNA replication. Add the multiple structures within a cell comprising a cell. Add the interaction of the components. It becomes mind boggling that even that can exist and live. Then there is the matter of how increasingly complex structures and functions come about when so many "false" starts must be implied. Then to have differentiation to distinct genera and species with little or no blurring. Sexual differentiation is another serious stumbing block to me. IF evolution were to be viable the present designs are sure not the simplest path to replication of complex creatures. Then there needs to be some thought given to the property of "life" itself - is it inate to matter or imparted to matter? The evolutionary myth seems to require something beyond even faith to be found acceptable.

OldStudent said:

"Evolution" is a broad term. In this form we are obliged to answer "yes and no." MICRO evolution is irrefutable - just look that the canine and feline genera. But there is serious problem defending MACRO evolution - the development of "simple" to "higher" forms of life... The evolutionary myth seems to require something beyond even faith to be found acceptable.

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The real myth is that macroevolution is something other than microevolution over millions of years.

How do you relate to the Bible as valid authority? Have you given consideration to some implications of geneologies listed in Genesis?

OldStudent said:

How do you relate to the Bible as valid authority? Have you given consideration to some implications of geneologies listed in Genesis?

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The geneologies of the bible take seriously the idea that people could live over 900 years. Why didn't these guys succumb to cancer? The mutations accumulated from normal cellular recycling alone would have killed them long before 900 years.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

The geneologies of the bible take seriously the idea that people could live over 900 years.

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Even if there were no empirical scientific evidence that people lived for over 900 years.
Would that give you reason to reject everything that we can give you empirical scientific evidence for?

Why reject valid science because there are things that they claim science can not verify right now. For all I know there is a conspiracy to suppress the evidence. That sure seems to be the case in Egypt. Although in all fairness a lot of the evidence is in plain sight, people just do not understand it or know how to interpret it. Science is making progress, but they still have a ways to go. We have a lot more evidence today then they ever had in the past. So all the more this genearation is without excuse.

So where is your empirical scientific evidence that they would all die from cancer?
Bold claims are going to require some bold evidence. Do you have any?

AV1611VET said:

This earth may be 4.55 billion years old, but it has only been in existence for 6100.

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The Jewish people say that Adam and Eve lived in the Garden in Eden around 5700 years ago. Christians believe it was around 5,975 years ago. That is the beginning of recorded history.

For me, I accept BOTH the OEC and YEC. They do not cover the same period of time, so they can both be true because they are talking about something different. They are both peices in a puzzle that help us to see the big pictue. They help to fill in some of the details.

Empirical scientific evidence can verify both of them. Clearly population genetics tells us that the Hebrew people had a common ancestor that lived at that time in that place. In fact all of the plant and animal species in the Bible have a common ancestor from the furtile cresent at that point in time. Just as the Bible says.

This stuff about we don't know if the Bible is true, we do not know who wrote the Bible, we do not know if the people in the Bible were real people. None of that is supported by one shred of empirical evidence. In fact all of the evidence we have shows us the Bible is accurate, reliable and dependable. You can bank on it.

JohnR7 said:

Empirical scientific evidence can verify both of them. Clearly population genetics tells us that the Hebrew people had a common ancestor that lived at that time in that place.

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Actually, that contradicts the Bible because the Bible says the most recent common ancestor of the Jewish people was Abraham, not Adam. Abraham was supposed to have lived thousands of years later.

It also says the Jewish people did not have a common female ancestor at that same time, as the Bible requires.

In fact all of the plant and animal species in the Bible have a common ancestor from the furtile cresent at that point in time. Just as the Bible says.

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Do you have a scientific source for this, or did you just make that up?

In fact all of the evidence we have shows us the Bible is accurate, reliable and dependable. You can bank on it.

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This is a statement of faith not backed by evidence.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

break out the shovel:
"It is considered the world's "oldest extant religion,"and has approximately a billion adherents, of whom about 890 million live in India, placing it as the world's third largest religion after Christianity and Islam."

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Put the shovel back --- I'm talking about efficacy - not popularity.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

Nirvana is a buddhist concept.

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You're right --- I meant Kundalini.

JohnR7 said:

In fact all of the evidence we have shows us the Bible is accurate, reliable and dependable. You can bank on it.

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AV1611VET said:

Put the shovel back --- I'm talking about efficacy - not popularity.

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Ok, I'll bite. How do we measure a religion's efficacy?

JohnR7 said:

So where is your empirical scientific evidence that they would all die from cancer?
Bold claims are going to require some bold evidence. Do you have any?

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http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/images/gpimages/cs_mort_f2.1
As age increases your immune system weakens. The cancerous cells that normally spring up aren't eliminated by the immune system and therefore divide unchecked causing cancer.

For instance, though I am 17 I most likely had "cancer" in the sense that one of my cells mutated in such a way that it destroyed growth regulating mechanisms. The immune system simply eliminated it quickly.

AV1611VET said:

What are you talking about? Did you click on it?

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Yes. I don't see any evidence of an ark. I also don't see independent verification of Noah.

JohnR7 said:

In fact all of the evidence we have shows us the Bible is accurate, reliable and dependable. You can bank on it.

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Light before the sun - How is there light without a light source?
The earth created before the sun - in a solar system? What about nebulae and accretion and disks?
Plant's created before the sun - I guess God forgot about photosynthesis and without the heat from the sun how did the plants function at all?
"He made the stars also" - ALSO? There are 7x10^22 (7 followed by 22 zeros) stars in the visible universe, that is a mighty big also.
God makes eve out of adam's rib - no comment needed.
Noah made a wooden boat the size of which wasn't achieved until steel reinforcement.
Two to seven of every species on a boat which were loaded on the same day.
Hares chew their cud? Hares aren't ruminants.
The earth is sitting on pillars - Really?
The sun stood still - They thought the sun revolved around the earth when the position of the sun in the sky are the result of earth rotation.

Please don't ever claim that this is somehow backed up empirically or is scientific.