AV vs modern versions debate

TwinCrier said:

There is no difference as being hungered and being hungry mean the same. That verse isn't unclear, at least I suspect most people can figure out hungered means being hungry.

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No, the two terms to NOT mean the same thing! The word “hungry” is found in the English language as early as the 11th century and it is found 30 times in 29 verses in the King James Version. The translators of the King James Version did not use that word in Matt. 4:2 because it does not express the concept they had in mind. So the obvious question is, “What concept were they trying to express by using the expression, ‘an hungered?’”

RichardT said:

Um... Once again, where do you learn about your God, do you think the Word of God is important?

Without the Word of God, where would we learn about Jesus and Salvation? Should we all read out of the NWT?

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And I guess to you the KJV is the only Word of God correct?

Please stop saying "your" God, because unless you're worshipping someone other than Jesus the Son of God, we're worshipping the same Lord. Get over that man, cause it's just simple minded to think I'm worshipping a different God because I read a different version of the Bible. Are you going to tell me that before the KJV that everyone just went to hell because the Authorized Version wasn't written yet? You can go on and answer yes, because that's what all of your posts imply. Without the KJV we're just lost right?

The Bible is very important, because w/o it where would we even learn about Christ? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not defaming the Bible at all, it's part of my everyday life.

I want to ask if you personally are worshipping God or the Bible? There is a difference and one is intolerable to the Lord. No one should make the KJV another golden idol and sadly I think it's coming to that.

Who Done It?

At Jeremiah 34:16, the Oxford KJV reads “whom he.” The Cambridge KJV reads "whom ye."

The Old Testament Texts primarily used by the translators of the King James Version were the Hebrew Masoretic Texts found in the Complutensian Polyglot (1517) and the Antwerp Polyglot (1572). In a some instances, however, the translators of the King James Version found the Hebrew texts to be so obscure that they translated instead from other sources, including ancient translations of the Hebrew into other languages, especially Greek (i.e.., the Septuagint). When translating 1 Samuel 13:21 they had difficulty finding an ancient text that they considered to be reliable and they chose the reading in an Aramaic Targum.

Since 1611, however, a multitude of archaeological discoveries have shed much light on the Hebrew Masoretic Text, and some twentieth century translators of the Bible have believed that they understood the Hebrew Masoretic Text of 1 Samuel 13:21 well enough to use it as the basis of their translation. This was the case in the translation of the New King James Version and several other recent translations of the Bible. Therefore, the NKJV reads here "and the charge for a sharpening was a pim for the plowshares, the mattocks, the forks, and the axes, and to set the points of the goads." A note is added here in the NKJV explaining the Hebrew word "pim." The note reads, "About two-thirds shekel weight."

The use of a different text when performing the translation of this verse explains why the KJV reads so differently in this verse than it does in some other translations. And in this particular case we do not find a deviation from the Hebrew Masoretic Text in the modern versions, but rather in the KJV.

As can be seen above, one of the Hebrew words found in the Hebrew Masoretic Text of 1 Samuel 13:21 is the word "pim." The NKJV uses this transliteration of the Hebrew word rather than translating it because there is in English no close equivalent. The Revised Standard Version does the same thing. The New Revised Standard Version and The New American Standard Version, however, both translate the word "pim" as "two-thirds of a shekel."

I do not like the NKJV as well as the NASB; however, if anyone were to ask me why I don't like it as well, I would try to answer the question knowledgeably, fairly and honestly. However, I recently purchased in the bookstore a pamphlet entitled, "New King James Omissions." This pamphlet brutally attacks the NKJV under a number on different headings, including "Mark of the Beast." Under this heading this pamphlet includes the following: "1 Sam. 13:21 the . . . was a pim (positive identification microchip)." It would appear that the writers of this pamphlet cannot read Hebrew (they think that "pim" is an acronym for "positive identification microchip"), but they are nonetheless extremely critical of a translation of it. Even more frightening to me is the fact that they are attempting to attribute to the New King James Version the "mark of the beast," but in fact they actually attributed the "mark of the beast" to the Hebrew Masoretic Text from which the vast majority of the King James Version is translated.

(continued below)

If this were all that there is wrong with the pamphlet, we might possibly attribute it to a careless mistake. The facts are, however, that when the information presented in the pamphlet is carefully examined, the majority of the information is clearly seen to be based on statements that are contrary to fact. Either the writers of the pamphlet are woefully ignorant of the facts at hand, or they are being deliberately dishonest.

Indeed fully one half of the pamphlet attempts of illustrate that the King James Version is easier to read than the New King James Version, and gives carefully chosen examples from the text of both translations to prove the point. They "forget" to mention that a number of words used in the King James Version have a distinctly different meaning today than they did in 1611. Many readers, unaware of this, error in their interpretation of their Bible as they read it without even suspecting the possibility. Should they realize their lack of understanding, most dictionaries would be of little help. Some examples of such words in the New Testament include the following:
"abased" (Matt. 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18:14) then meant "humbled"
"abide" (Acts 20:23) then meant "await"
"acquaintance" (Luke 2:44; 23:49; Acts 24:23) then meant "acquaintances"
"admiration" (Rev. 17:6) then meant "wonder"
"affections" (Gal. 5:24) then meant "passions"
"again" (Matt. 27:3; Luke 14:6) then meant "back"
"allege" (Acts 17:3) then meant present "evidence"
"allow" (Luke 11:48; Rom. 14:22; 1 Thes. 2:4) then meant "approve"
"amazement" (1 Pet. 3:6) then meant "terror"
"amend" (John 4:52) then meant "mend"
"answer" (2 Tim. 4:16) then meant "defense"
"approve" (2 Cor. 6:4; 7:11) then meant "commend" or "prove"
"assay" (Acts 9:26; 16:7; Heb. 11:29) then meant "essay" or "attempt"
"attendance" (1 Tim. 4:13) then meant "attention"
"base" (1 Cor. 1:28; 2 Cor. 10:1) then meant "lowly"
"behind" (Col. 1:24) then meant "lacking"
"bewitched" (Acts 8:9, 11) then meant "astonished"
"by and by" (Matt. 13:21; Mark 6:25; Luke 17:7; 21:9) then meant "immediately"
"careful" (Luke 10:41; Phil. 4:6) then meant "anxious"
"charged" (1 Tim. 5:16) then meant "burdened"
"charger" (Matt. 14:8, 11; Mark 6:25, 28) then meant "platter"
"charity" (1 Cor. 8:1; 13:1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13; etc.) then meant "love"
"charitably" (Rom. 14:15) then meant "in love"
"communicate" (Gal. 6:6; Phil. 4:14, 15; 1 Tim. 6:18; Heb. 13:16) then meant "share"
"communications" (Cor. 15:33) then meant "companionship"
"concluded" (Rom. 11:32; Gal. 3:22) then meant "shut up"
"conscience" (1 Cor. 8:7; Heb. 10:2) then meant "consciousness"
"convenient" (Rom. 1:28; Eph. 5:4; Phlm. 8) then meant "fitting" or "proper"
"conversation" (2 Cor. 1:12; Gal. 1:13; Eph. 2:3; etc.) then meant "manner of life" or "conduct"
"corn" (Matt. 12:1; Mark 2:23; 4:28; etc.) then meant "grain"
"countries" (Luke 21:21) then meant "country"
"country, a" (John 11:54) then meant "the country"
"damnation" (Matt. 23:14; Mark 12:40; Luke 20:47; etc.) then meant "condemnation" or "judgment" (1 Cor. 11:29)
"damned" (Mark 16:16; Rom. 14:23; 2 Thes. 2:12) then meant "condemned" or "judged"
"delicately" (Luke 7:25) then meant "luxuriously"
"deliciously" (Rev. 18:7, 9) then meant "wantonly"
"doubtful" (Luke 12:29) then meant "anxious"
"draught" (Matt. 15:17; Mark 7:19) then meant "drain"
"earnestly" (Luke 22:56; Acts 23:1) then meant "carefully" or "steadfastly" or "intently"
"ensue" (1 Pet. 3:11) then meant "pursue"
"entreat(ed)" (Matt. 22:6; Luke 18:32; 20:11; etc.) then meant "treat(ed)"
"estate" (Acts 22:5) then meant "council"
"estates" (Mark 6:21) then meant "men of nobility or rank"
"ever, or" (Acts 23:15) then meant "before"
"evidently" (Acts 10:3) then meant "clearly" or "openly" (Gal. 3:1)
"fame" (Matt. 4:24; 9:26, 31; 14:1; Mark 1:28; etc.) then meant "report" or "repute"
"feeble-minded" (1 Thes. 5:14) then meant "fainthearted"
"forward" (2 Cor. 8:10, 17; Gal. 2:10) then meant "ready" or "eager"
"frankly" (Luke 7:42) then meant "freely"
"furnished" (Matt. 22:10) then meant "filled"
"go beyond" (1 Thes. 4:6) then meant "transgress"
"good" (1 Jn. 3:17) then meant "goods"
"goodman" (Matt. 20:11; 24:43; Mark 14:14; etc.) then meant "master"
"governor" (James 3:4) then meant "pilot"
"grudge" (James 5:9; 1 Pet. 4:9) then meant "grumble"
"guilty" (Matt. 23:18) then meant "bound"
"hardly" (Matt. 19:23) then meant "with difficulty"
"instant" (Luke 23:23) then meant "insistent," or "constant" (Rom. 12:12), or "urgent" (2 Tim. 4:2)
"keep under" (1 Cor. 9:27) then meant "buffet"

"lade" (Luke 11:46) then meant "load"
"large" (Matt. 28:12) then meant "much"
"lewd" (Acts 17:5) then meant "wicked"
"lewdness" (Acts 18:14) then meant "villainy"
"listed" (Matt. 17:12; Mark 9:13) then meant "wished"
"listeth" (John 3:8; James 3:4) then meant "wishes"
"lively" (Acts 7:38; 1 Pet. 1:3; 2:5) then meant "living"
"loft" (Acts 20:9) then meant "story"
"marred" (Mark 2:22) then meant "destroyed"
"meat" (Matt. 3:4; 6:25; 10:10; 15:37; 24:45; etc.) then meant "food"
"minister" (Luke 4:20) then meant "attendant"
"minstrels" (Matt. 9:23) then meant "flute players"
"motions" (Rom. 7:5) then meant "passions"
"observed him" (Mark 6:20) then meant "kept him safe"
"occupy" (Luke 19:13) then meant "trade"
"other" (John 21:2; Acts 15:2; 2 Cor. 13:2; Phil. 2:3) then meant "others"
"other some" (Acts 17:18) then meant "some others"
"overcharge(d)" (Luke 21:34; 2 Cor. 2:5) then meant "over burden(ed)"
"particularly" (Acts 21:19; Heb. 9:5) then meant "in detail"
"pitiful" (1 Pet. 3:8) then meant "merciful"
"presently" (Matt. 21:19; 26:53; Phil. 2:23) then meant "immediately"
"pressed out of" (2 Cor. 1:8) then meant "oppressed beyond"
"prevent" (1 Thes. 4:15) then meant "precede"
"prevented" (Matt. 17:25) then meant "spoke first to"
"profited" (Gal. 1:14) then meant "advanced"
"profiting" (1 Tim. 4:15) then meant "progress"
"proper" (Acts 1:19; 1 Cor. 7:7) then meant "own" or "beautiful" (Heb. 11:23)
"quick" (Heb. 4:12) then meant "living"
"quit you" (1 Cor. 16:13) then meant "conduct yourselves"
"reason" (Acts 6:2) then meant "reasonable"
"record" (John 1:19; Acts 20:26; 2 Cor. 1:23; Phil. 1:8) then meant "witness"
"respect, had" (Heb. 11:26) then meant "looked"
"room" (Matt. 2:22; Luke 14:7, 8, 9, 10; Acts 24:27; 1 Cor. 14:16) then meant "place"
"sardine" (Rev. 4:3) then meant "sardius"
"scrip" (Matt. 10:10; Mark 6:8; Luke 9:3; 10:4; etc.) then meant "bag"
"secondarily" (1 Cor. 12:28) then meant "secondly"
"sentence" (Acts 15:19) then meant "judgment"
"several" (Matt. 25:15) then meant "particular"
"shamefacedness" (1 Tim. 2:9) then meant "modesty" or "propriety"
"shape" (John 5:37) then meant "form"
"should" (Acts 23:27) then meant "would"
"sincere" (1 Pet. 2:2) then meant "pure"
"strange" (Acts 26:11) then meant "foreign"
"strangers of" (Acts 2:10) then meant "visitors from"
"string" (Mark 7:35) then meant "band"
"study" (1 Thes. 4:11; 2 Tim. 2:15) then meant "endeavor"
"tables" (Luke 1:63; 2 Cor. 3:3) then meant "tablets"
"take no thought" (Matt. 6:25, 28, 31, 34; 10:19; Luke 12:11, 22, 26) then meant "be not anxious"
"taking thought" (Matt. 6:27; Luke 12:25) then meant "being anxious"
"temperance" (Acts 24:25; Gal. 5:23; 2 Pet. 1:6) then meant "self-control"
"temperate" (1 Cor. 9:25; ***. 1:8) then meant "self- controlled"
"translated" (Col. 1:13; Heb. 11:5) then meant "transferred"

Some examples of such words in the Old Testament include the following:
"abroad" (Deut. 24:11; Jer. 6:11) then meant "outside"
"advanced" (1 Sam. 12:6) then meant "appointed"
"advertise" (Num. 24:14; Ruth 4:4) then meant "advise"
"against he come" (Exod. 7:15) then meant "to meet him"
"almost" (Psalm 94:17) then meant "soon"
"ancient(s)" (Psalm 119:100; Isa. 3:2, 5, 14; 9:15; 24:23; etc. then meant "elder(s)"
"apothecary" (Exod. 30:25, 35; 37:29; Eccl. 10:1) then meant "perfumer"
"apparently" (Num. 12:8) then meant "clearly"
"armholes" (Ezek. 13:18) then meant "elbows"
"artillery" (1 Sam. 20:40) then meant "small armor"
"assay(ed)" (Deut. 4:34; 1 Sam. 17:39) then meant "attempt(ed)"
"at" (Exod. 19:15; Num. 6:6; Ezek. 44:25) then meant "near to"
"audience" (Gen. 23:10, 13, 16; 1 Sam. 25:24; Neh. 13:1) then meant "hearing"
"bands" (Psalm 73:4) then meant "pangs"
"bound" (Hosea 5:10) then meant "landmark"
"bowels" (Gen. 43:30; 1 Kings 3:26; Psalm 109:18; Song 5:4; etc.) then meant "heart"
"by that" (Exod. 22:26) then meant "before"
"carriage(s)" (Judg. 18:21; 1 Sam. 17:22; Isa. 10:28) then meant "that which is carried"
"certified" (Esther 2:22) then meant "told"
"certify" (2 Sam. 15:28) then meant "advise"
"check" (Job 20:3) then meant "chastisement"
"cherish" (1 Kings 1:2) then meant "keep warm"
"clean" (Josh. 3:17; 4:1, 11; Psalm 77:8; Isa. 24:19) then meant "completely"
"coast" (Exod. 10:4; Deut. 2:4; 16:4; etc.) then meant "district" or "border" (Num. 20:23; 22:36; 34:11; Deut. 2:18; etc.)
"compass" (Prov. 8:27) then meant "circle" or "encompass" (Jer. 31:22)
"confection" (Exod. 30:35) then meant "spice"
"consult(ed)" (1 Kings 12:6, 8; 1 Chron. 13:1; 2 Chron. 20:21; Neh. 5:7; etc.) then meant "counsel(ed)"
"consumption" (Isa. 28:22) then meant "destruction"
"contrary" (Ezek. 16:34) then meant "different"
"convenient" (Prov. 30:8) then meant "needful"
"conversation" (Psalm 37:14; 50:23) then meant "conduct"
"convert" (Isa. 6:10) then meant "turn"
"corn" (Gen. 27:37; 41:35, 49, 57; 42:1, 2, 3, 5, 19, 25, 26; etc.) then meant "grain"
"curious" (Exod. 28:8, 27, 28; 29:5; 35:32; etc.) then meant "carefully made"
"darling" (Psalm 22:20; 35:17) then meant "dear life"
"deal" (Exod. 29:40; Lev. 14:10, 21; 23:13, 17; 24:5; Num. 15:4, 6, 9; etc.) then meant "part" or "portion"
"dearth" (Jer. 14:1) then meant "drought"
"debate" (Isa. 58:4) then meant "strife"
"decline" (Deut. 17:11) then meant "turn aside"
"denounce" (Deut. 30:18) then meant "declare"
"discover(ed)" (1 Sam. 14:8, 11) then meant "disclose(d)"
"dote" (Jer. 50:36) then meant "be fools"

"ear(ed)(ing)" (Gen. 45:6; Exod. 34:21; Deut. 21:4; 1 Sam. 8:12; Isa. 30:24) then meant "plow(ed)(ing)"
"either" (Lev. 10:1; 2 Chron. 18:9) then meant "each"
"ever, or" (Dan. 6:24) then meant "before"
"evident" (Job 6:28) then meant "clear"
"fast" (Ruth 2:8, 21, 23) then meant "close"
"fetched a compass" (Josh. 15:3; 2 Kings 3:9) then meant "made a circuit"
"flags" (Exod. 2:3, 5) then meant "reeds"
"flood" (Josh. 24:2, 3, 14, 15) then meant "river"
"flowers" (Lev. 15:24, 33) then meant "menstrual impurity"
"folk" (Jer. 51:58) then meant "nation"
"freely" (Num. 11:5) then meant "for naught"
"froward" (Prov. 4:24) then meant "deceitful", "crooked" (Psalm. 18:26; Prov. 2:15; 3:32; 8:8; 17:20), or "perverse" (Deut. 32:20; 2 Sam. 22:27; Psalm 101:4; Prov. 2:12; 8:13; 10:31; etc.)
"furniture" (Gen. 31:34) then meant "trappings"
"galleries" (Song 7:5) then meant "tresses"
"gender" (Lev. 19:19) then meant "breed"
"ghost" (Gen. 25:8, 17; 35:29; 49:33; Job 3:11; then meant "spirit"
"grave" (Exod. 28:9, 36; 2 Chron. 2:7) then meant "engrave"
"graved" (1 Kings 7:36) then meant "carved"
"graven" (Exod. 39:6) then meant "engraven"
"gutter" (2 Sam. 5:8) then meant "watercourse"
"halted" (Gen. 32:31) then meant "limped"
"harness" 1 Kings 20:11; 22:34; 2 Chron. 9:24; 18:33) then meant "armor"
"imagine" (Hosea 7:15) then meant "devise"
"inventions" (Psalm 99:8; 106:29, 39) then meant "doings"
"inward" (Job 19:19) then meant "familiar"
"isle(s)" (Isa. 20:6; 23:2; 24:15) then meant "coast-land(s)"
"judgment" (Prov. 21:15; Amos 5:15, 24; Micah 3:9) then meant "justice"
"length" (Prov. 29:21) then meant "last"
"let" (Exod. 5:4) then meant "loose"
"lightly" (Gen. 26:10) then meant "easily"
"lightness" (Jer. 23:32) then meant "vain boasting"
"liketh" (Deut. 23:16; Amos 4:5) then meant "pleaseth"
"liking" (Dan. 1:10) then meant "looking"
"liquor" (Num. 6:3) then meant "juice"
"mad" (Eccl. 7:7) then meant "foolish"
"make away" (Dan. 11:44) then meant "sweep away"
"mean" (Prov. 22:29) then meant "common"
"meat" (Exod. 29:41; 30:9; Lev. 2:1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15; etc.) then meant "meal" (the "meat offering" in Lev. 14:10 was a cereal grain offering)
"nephew" (Job 18:19; Isa. 14:22) then meant "grandchild"
"outlandish" (Neh. 13:26) then meant "foreign"
"overlaid it" (1 Kings 3:19) then meant "lay upon it"
"passengers" (Prov. 9:15) then meant "passers by"
"peculiar" (Exod. 19:5; Deut. 14:2; 26:18; Psalm 135:4; Eccl. 2:8) then meant "that belonging to an individual"
"pitiful" (Lam. 4:10) then meant "full of pity"
"plain" (Gen. 25:27) then meant "quiet"
"prevent" (Psalm 88:13; Amos 9:10) then meant "come before," or "receive" (Job 3:12), or "anticipate" (Psalm 119:147, 148), or "come upon" (2 Sam. 22:6, 19; Job 30:27; Psalm 18:5, 18), or "meet" (Isa. 21:14)
"printed" (Job 19:23) then meant "inscribed"
"prove(ed)" Dan. 1:12, 14) then meant "tested"
"purely" (Isa. 1:25) then meant "thoroughly"
"quick" (Lev. 13:10; Num. 16:30; Psalm 55:15; 124:3) then meant "alive"
"quit" (Josh. 2:20) then meant "guiltless"
"ranges" (2 Kings 11:8, 15; 2 Chron. 23:14) then meant "ranks"
"ranging" (Prov. 28:15) then meant "roaming"
"removed woman" (Ezek. 36:17) then meant "woman in her impurity"
"removing" (Isa. 49:21) then meant "wandering"
"reprobate" (Jer. 6:30) then meant "refuse"
"residue" (Jer. 39:3; 41:10; Ezek. 9:8) then meant "rest"
"rest, take my" (Isa. 18:4) then meant "be silent"
"restrain" (Job 15:8) then meant "limit"
"road" (1 Sam. 27:10) then meant "raid"
"roaring" (Psalm 22:1) then meant "groaning"
"rod" (Isa. 11:1) then meant "shoot"
"room(s)" (1 Kings 5:1, 5; 8:20; 20:24; etc.) then meant "stead"
"scrip" (1 Sam. 17:40) then meant "wallet"
"sever" (Exod. 9:4) then meant "distinguish"
"several" (2 Chron. 28:25; 31:19) then meant "single"
"shoot" (Exod. 36:33) then meant "pass"
"show" (Gen. 46:31) then meant "tell"
"sides" (1 Sam. 24:3; Jonah 1:5) then meant "innermost parts"
"sore" (1 Sam. 14:52; 2 Sam. 2:17) then meant "fierce"
"sorrowful" (Job 6:7) then meant "loathsome"
"spoiled" (Gen. 34:27, 29) then meant "plundered"
"stay" (Isa. 30:12; 31:1; 50:10) then meant "rely" or "uphold" (Prov. 28:17)
"strait" (2 Kings 6:1) then meant "narrow"
"straiten" (Jer. 19:9) then meant "distress"
"stuff" (1 Sam. 10:22; 25:13; 30:24) then meant "military baggage"
"suburbs" (Ezek. 45:2) then meant "open space"
"suffer" (Exod. 12:23; 22:18; Lev. 2:13; 19:17; 22:16; etc.) then meant "permit"
"Syrian" (Isa. 36:11) then meant "Aramaic"
"take thought for" (1 Sam. 9:5) then meant "be anxious"
"tale" (Exod. 5:8, 18; 1 Sam. 18:27; 1 Chron. 9:28) then meant "number"
"target" (1 Sam. 17:6) then meant "javelin"
"tell" (Psalm 22:17) then meant "count"
"tin" (Isa. 1:25) then meant "alloy"
"tokens" (Psalm 135:9) then meant "signs"
"told" (2 Kings 12:10, 11; 2 Chron. 2:2) then meant "counted"
"translate" (2 Sam. 3:10) then meant "transfer"
"usury" (Isa. 24:2) then meant "interest"
"waster" (Prov. 18:9) then meant "destroyer"

The King James Version has additional problems in the Old Testament. Many passages are unintelligible to the average adult reader, some even to the average professor of English. How well do you understand the following:
"And Jacob sod pottage" (Gen. 25:29)
"And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke" (Exod. 19:18)
"Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof." (Job 26:5)
"The noise thereof showeth concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapor." (Job 36:33)
"Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing" (Psalm 5:6)
"For who can eat, or who else can hasten hereunto, more than I?" (Eccles. 2:25)
"The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market" (Ezek. 27:25)

And how many of these words from the King James Version are you sure of:
abjects (Psalm 35:15)
agone (1 Sam. 30:13)
ague (Lev. 26:16)
algum (2 Chron. 2:8; 9:10, 11)
almug (1 Kings 10:11, 12)
blains (Exod. 9:9, 10)
bolled (Exod. 9:31)
botch (Deut. 28:27, 35)
brigandine (Jer. 46:4; 51:3)
bruit (Jer. 10:22; Nahum 3:19)
buckler (2 Sam. 22:31; 1 Chron. 5:18; 12:8; Psalm 18:2, 30; etc.)
cab (2 Kings 6:25)
cauls (Isa. 3:18)
chapiter (1 Kings 7:16)
chapmen (2 Chron. 9:14)
chapt (Jer. 14:4)
cast clouts (Jer. 38:11, 12)
chode (Gen. 31:36; Num. 20:3)
cieled (2 Chron. 3:5; Jer. 22:14; Ezek. 41:16; Hag. 1:4)
clouted (Josh. 9:5)
college (2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chron. 34:22)
cogitations (Dan. 7:28)
collops (Job 15:27)
cormorant (Lev. 11:17; Deut. 14:17; Isa. 34:11; Zeph. 2:14)
cotes (2 Chron. 32:28)
coulter (1 Sam. 13:20)
countervail (Esther 7:4)
cracknels (1 Kings 14:3)
crisping pins (Isa. 3:22)
cruse (1 Sam. 26:11, 12, 16; 1 Kings 14:3; 17:12, 14, 16; etc.)
daysman (Job 9:33)
discomfited, be (Isa. 31:8)
emerods (Deut. 28:27; 1 Sam. 5:6, 9, 12; 6:4, 5, 11, 17)
environ (Josh. 7:9)
exactors (Isa. 60:17)
fitches (Ezek. 4:9)
flagons (Song 2:5)
fray (Deut. 28:26; Jer. 7:33; Zech. 1:21)
froward (Deut. 32:20; 2 Sam. 22:27; Job. 5:13; etc.)
gat (Gen. 19:27; Exod. 24:18; Num. 11:30)
habergeon (Exod. 28:32; 39:23; Job 41:26)
hap (Ruth 2:3)
helve (Deut. 19:5)
horseleech (Prov. 30:15)
hosen (Dan. 3:21)
hough(ed) (Josh. 11:6, 9; 2 Sam. 8:4; 1 Chron. 18:4)
kine (Gen. 32:15; 41:2, 3, 4, 18, 19, 20, 26, 27; Deut. 7:13; etc.)
leasing (Psalm 4:2; 5:6)
ligure (Exod. 28:19; 39:12)
mete (Exod. 16:18; Psalm 60:6)
meteyard (Lev. 19:35)
minished (Psalm 107:39)
munition(s) (Isa. 29:7; 33:16; Nahum 2:1)
neesings (Job 41:18)
nether (Deut. 24:6)
occurrent (1 Kings 5:4)
ouches (Exod. 28:11, 13, 14, 25; 39:6, 13, 16, 18)
pilled (Gen. 30:37, 38)
plat (2 Kings 9:26)
poll(ed) (2 Sam. 14:26; Ezek. 44:20; Micah 1:16)
pommels (2 Chron. 4:12, 13)
purtenance (Exod. 12:9)
ribband (Num. 15:38)
ring-straked (Gen. 30:35, 39, 40; 31:8, 10, 12)
savor (Song 1:3)
scrip (1 Sam. 17:40)
sever (Exod. 9:4)
sod (Gen. 25:29; 2 Chron. 35:13)
stacte (Exod. 30:34)
taches (Exod. 26:6, 11, 33; 35:11; 36:13, 18; 39:33)
trode (Judg. 9:27; 20:43; 2 Kings 7:17; 9:33; 14:9; 2 Chron. 25:18)
wimples (Isa. 3:22)
wist not (Exod. 16:15; 34:29; Lev. 5:17; etc.)
wit (Gen. 24:21; Exod. 2:4)
wot (Gen. 21:26; 44:15; Exod. 32:1, 23; Num. 22:6; Josh. 2:5)
wotteth (Gen. 39:8)

In spite of all of these difficulties, the pamphlet before us states, ". . . the King James Version reads at the 5th grade level." The fact is many reading studies have been performed on the King James Version (and all the other currently used English translations) and they have found the King James Version reads at the 14th grade level. I find it amusing that if you brake down the number 14 to its component parts, 1 & 4, and add the two together, you get the sum of 5. Perhaps that is how the writers of the pamphlet justify their statement!

The deception does not end here, the pamphlet also states, "The derivative copyright law insists that: 'to be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a "new work" or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes.' Therefore all new Bible version must change those simple one or two syllable Anglo-Saxon words to complex Latinized words." This statement is absolutely false. Several translations of the Bible have been made at the 3rd grade reading level, and all of the ones that I have reviewed were copyrighted. I personally wouldn't recommend that any parent give one of these Bibles to their children to read, but the fact simply is that they are vastly more readable than the King James Version because their vocabulary and style have been very greatly simplified. Are they true to the ancient texts of the Bible? Not close enough, in my opinion, but they are very much easier to read than the King James Version.



The testimony of the King James Version of the Bible throughout almost 400 years of use is absolute proof that it deserves careful and honest treatment by friends and foes alike. It is quite distasteful enough to see careless and dishonest criticism of the King James Version in print, but to see carelessness and dishonesty used in its defense tends to falsely show it as being so corrupt as to make a careful and honest defense of it impossible.

The King James Version of the Bible is difficult to read; but so are the writings of William Shakespeare (who was, by the way, one of the editors or the King James Version). Much more difficult to read is the novel by William Faulkner, The Sound and The Fury. This book is a genuine pain to read, but it is well worth the effort. The King James Version of the Bible is in places also difficult to read, and we all need to admit that fact. To lie and say that it is translated at the 5th grade reading level makes fundamentalists look like idiots. To so carelessly defend the King James Version so as to mistakenly attribute the "mark of the beast" to the Hebrew Masoretic Text makes fundamentalists look like something even worse.

RichardT said:

Man, how did you get so much reputation! You have 500 posts!

Click to expand...

Not that I think reputation points are necessarily a good measure, in this case PrincetonGuy's posts are on point, well thought out, never rude or condescending, grounded in verifiable fact. Most of us, myself included, could learn something from him; especially in regards to dealing with arrogant, holier-than-thou posts.

RichardT said:

Man, how did you get so much reputation! You have 500 posts!

Click to expand...

I am a very sweet and lovable guy with more girl friends than I can count!
Besides that, I am a very handsome and macho dude.

Checkout my profile picture!

edb19 said:

Not that I think reputation points are necessarily a good measure, in this case PrincetonGuy's posts are on point, well thought out, never rude or condescending, grounded in verifiable fact. Most of us, myself included, could learn something from him; especially in regards to dealing with arrogant, holier-than-thou posts.

Click to expand...

See what I mean! The ladies think that I am the greatest!

No, not really!
Some members of the message board have been very kind to me well beyond what I deserve.

PrincetonGuy said:

I am a very sweet and lovable guy with more girl friends than I can count!
Besides that, I am a very handsome and macho dude.

Checkout my profile picture!

Click to expand...

You seem taller on the big screen...

PrincetonGuy said:

See what I mean! The ladies think that I am the greatest!

No, not really!
Some members of the message board have been very kind to me well beyond what I deserve.

Click to expand...

Tell me about it as people think I am a dork
But hey, I love being a dork!

JPPT1974 said:

Tell me about it as people think I am a dork
But hey, I love being a dork!

Click to expand...

I don't think you're a dork little sister

I am a very sweet and lovable guy with more girl friends than I can count!
Besides that, I am a very handsome and macho dude.

Checkout my profile picture!

Click to expand...

Want to meet my daughter - she likes archeologists

PrincetonGuy said:

To so carelessly defend the King James Version so as to mistakenly attribute the "mark of the beast" to the Hebrew Masoretic Text makes fundamentalists look like something even worse.

Click to expand...

Heh, I have other reasons for believing that the Masoretic text is the mark of the beast.

But this is a discussion for my Septuagint-onlyism thread...

edb19 said:

Want to meet my daughter - she likes archeologists

Click to expand...

Like Indiana Jones huh??