why isin't there a forum for Jehova's wittnesses ?

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RichardT said:
I love how they dont celebrate pagan traditions.... It seems to me like they are more protestant than we are.....

If us Christians invested as much into our 'religion' as they do, we would be light years ahead! But our God doesn't want us to invest time in our 'religion' because we have to... but because we want to... thus, Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with our heavenly Father. :)
 
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RichardT

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TruthSetsYouFree said:
If us Christians invested as much into our 'religion' as they do, we would be light years ahead! But our God doesn't want us to invest time in our 'religion' because we have to... but because we want to... thus, Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with our heavenly Father. :)

ya , agreed completely... This is what I was trying to say in my "True Christianity" thread in the non-christian religion forum ...
 
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Lisa0315

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RichardT said:
I hate how we have to seperate ourselves from them... There's so much we can learn from there beliefs though....

I love how they dont celebrate pagan traditions.... It seems to me like they are more protestant than we are.....

You have a good heart, but remember they are leading people away from Christ not to Him. This is the reason we are to oppose them. They are leading people to Hell with this doctrine. They don't believe in Christ's Resurrection for goodness sake. That is fundamental to Christianity. Without Christ's Resurrection, we have nothing to believe in, nothing to hope for. If Jesus did not rise again, He is not who He said He was.

I don't disagree about Halloween, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the other things they are teaching.
 
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Lisa0315 said:
You have a good heart, but remember they are leading people away from Christ not to Him. This is the reason we are to oppose them. They are leading people to Hell with this doctrine. They don't believe in Christ's Resurrection for goodness sake. That is fundamental to Christianity. Without Christ's Resurrection, we have nothing to believe in, nothing to hope for. If Jesus did not rise again, He is not who He said He was.

I don't disagree about Halloween, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the other things they are teaching.

Well said.

I saw somewhere in their doctrine that Christ is still 'dead' today... so their Jesus is dead, and he's a brother of Satan? I think it's pretty clear that they are speaking of 'another Jesus'. :o
 
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RichardT

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TruthSetsYouFree said:
Well said.

I saw somewhere in their doctrine that Christ is still 'dead' today... so their Jesus is dead, and he's a brother of Satan? I think it's pretty clear that they are speaking of 'another Jesus'. :o

Ok , I got it now ... Denying Jesus' reserection is enough to label them as non-christian...
 
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Lisa0315

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RichardT said:
Ok , I got it now ... Denying Jesus' reserection is enough to label them as non-christian...

Yes. That is exactly right. Christ's Ressurection is as essential to our salvation as His death on the cross. One without the other is incomplete.
 
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Svt4Him

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RichardT said:
I hate how we have to seperate ourselves from them... There's so much we can learn from there beliefs though....

I love how they dont celebrate pagan traditions.... It seems to me like they are more protestant than we are.....

You seem bent on saying that because someone celebrates Christmas say, they are just as bad as someone who believes Jesus is one of many gods, and that is your personal conviction. It may be sin to you so don't do it.

JW believe in the begging was the word, and the word was a god, not God. JW's believe strongly in works. JW's believe that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force. They also believe Jesus already came back in the late 1800's then it was revised to 1914 I believe. They may be the nicest, but God doesn't look at what we think of people when He determins whether someone goes to heaven. With Jesus there is live, and that Jesus is not an angel who became God's son, it's God Himself.

1. Source of Authority. JWs claim the Bible as their final authority, but Russell's writings, especially Studies in the Scriptures, are considered "the light of the Scriptures." JWs have their own translation of the Scriptures (New World Translation, published in 1961), which reflects the binding interpretations of the group's leaders. The JWs' New World Translation greatly perverts the Scriptures to avoid placing themselves under the judgment of God (cf. Jn. 1:1; 8:58; I Tim. 2:6; Ac. 10:36; Col. 1:16-17; 2:9-10; etc.). Hence, the leader's interpretation of the Bible, not the Bible itself, is the final authority of JWs. The Watchtower magazine is one of the JWs main sources of doctrine, and is considered authoritative by its members.

2. Trinity. JWs believe that God is not a triune God, but only "Jehovah God" (Let God Be True, pp. 100-101); they teach that Trinitarianism is a belief in three gods, and thereby, Satan-inspired polytheism. Rutherford wrote: "... sincere persons who want to know the true God and serve him find it a bit difficult to love and worship a complicated, freakish-looking, three-headed God. The clergy who inject such ideas will contradict themselves in the very next breath by stating that God made man in his own image; for certainly no one has ever seen a three-headed human creature" (Let God Be True, 2nd ed., pp. 101-102). 3. God the Father. Known as Jehovah, the Watchtower considers Him to be the only true eternal God, the Almighty. They write, "There was, therefore, a time when Jehovah was all alone in universal space" (Let God Be True, p. 25). Being alone, the first creative act of Jehovah was to create His Son.

4. Jesus Christ.
Since JWs do not believe in the Trinity, they also do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. They add the word "other" four times to Colossians 1:16,17, teaching that Christ was God's first creation, i.e., the reincarnation of Michael the archangel created by Jehovah, rather than the Creator. [The "Watchtower" teaches that Jehovah God created Michael the Archangel before the foundation of the world; Michael was His only begotten son by virtue of the fact that he was the only creature directly created by Jehovah. It was this created Michael who became the JW Jesus (i.e., a denial of the eternality of Christ). JWs say that "Since actual conception took place, it appears that Jehovah God caused an ovum or egg in Mary's womb to become fertile, accomplishing this by the transfer of the life of his first born son (Michael) from the spirit realm to the earth" (Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 920). "Marvelously, Jehovah transferred the life-force and the personality pattern of his first born heavenly son (Michael) to the womb of Mary. God's own active force, his holy spirit, safeguarded the development of the child in Mary's womb so that what was born was a perfect human" (Reasoning, p. 255).] JWs also add an "a" in John 1:1, making the verse read, "the Word was a god" (which in essence, makes the JWs guilty of the same polytheism of which they accuse Trinitarians).

5. Use of Name Jehovah. JWs use the name "Jehovah" only for God (in order to distinguish between God and Jesus Christ), while failing to recognize that Jesus is the fulfillment of "Jehovah" in Isaiah 40:3 and Matthew 3:3. [HJB]

6. Resurrection of Christ
. JWs deny the bodily resurrection of Christ through their teaching that the body of Christ was annihilated by God -- not risen -- but rather a new one was created three days after His death. This they call the "resurrection" of Christ. Thus, Jesus was "resurrected" as a "glorious spirit creature" and does not now have a glorified physical body. Instead, they claim Jesus arose spiritually and only "materialized" at various times after His resurrection so He could be seen alive. (Awake!, 7/22/73, p. 4)

7. The Holy Spirit. JWs deny the deity of the third person of the Trinity, as either God or as a person; they claim that the Holy Spirit is only an impersonal "active force of Almighty God which moves His servants to do His will" (Reasoning From the Scriptures, pp. 406-407; The Watchtower, 6/1/54, p. 24). They have written, "But the holy spirit has no personal name. The reason for this is that the holy spirit is not an intelligent person. It is the impersonal, invisible active force that finds its source and reservoir in Jehovah God and that he uses to accomplish his will even at great distances, over light years of space" (Let Your Name Be Sanctified, p. 269).

8. Sin. JWs believe that the first man, Adam, disobeyed Jehovah when tempted by the angel Lucifer, who was jealous of man. As a result of disobedience, Adam and all his descendants lost the right to life and so became liable to death. This liability is applied to temporal death only. 9. Salvation . JWs claim everlasting life is a reward for doing the will of God and carrying out one's dedication -- in other words, salvation is a reward for good works. (JWs are expected to spend five hours per week in door-to-door visitation and witnessing, are responsible for selling twelve subscriptions to The Watchtower magazine each month, and are responsible for conducting a "Bible study" each month in the homes of their converts.) According to JW theology, a person has one of three possible destinies. The Anointed (144,000) will be in heaven to reign with Jehovah God. The rest of the faithful Jehovah's Witnesses (not of the 144,000) will live forever on a paradise Earth. Both of these classifications are determined to a great extent on membership in the Watchtower organization as well as going door-to-door spreading the message of the Watchtower. Those people who are not members of the Watchtower organization will be destroyed by Jehovah God and cease to exist. There is no concept of eternal punishment or hell in Watchtower theology (Let God Be True, pp. 90-95, 289). They also believe that men will have a second chance, after death, to be saved.

10. The Body of Christ. JWs believe that the members of the spiritual Body of Christ, or "Christian Congregation," number only 144,000 (Rev. 7:4-8). Most of those members of Christ's Body are now deceased and are reigning with Jesus in heaven since 1918. (Anybody born after 1936 cannot be in that number.) The remaining members still on earth, approximately 8,000 (out of whom are selected the "Governing Body"), are known as the "Remnant." They are collectively known as Jehovah God's "channel of communication" to men. They are the only ones "born again" and are the only ones who have a hope of going to Heaven. The rest of Jehovah's faithful witnesses only hope to be worthy enough to inherit the Earth, and will never see "Jesus/Michael," nor will they ever go to Heaven. All "so called Christendom" will be destroyed at Armageddon.

11. Soul Sleep. JWs deny the immortality of the soul. They do not believe the soul can exist apart from the body, but that a corpse remains in an unconscious state in the grave waiting for the resurrection. [HJB]

12. Annihilation of the Wicked. JWs teach that the "second death" is annihilation and extinction -- the wicked will cease to exist and will not suffer everlasting torment. They claim that a "doctrine of a burning hell" is "wholly unscriptural," "unreasonable," "contrary to God's love," and "repugnant to justice." [HJB] They claim that "hell" is the grave.

13. Prophecy . The Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don't come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God's Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies, which, if pointed out, offer an effective way to open blind eyes and rescue cultists. Russell's false prophecies formed the basis for what became The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell declared that the Second Coming had taken place invisibly in October 1874, and the Lord was truly present, and that in 1914 the faithful (the 144,000) would be translated to heaven and the wicked destroyed. Armageddon (which began in 1874) would culminate in 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's rulers and the end of the world. C.T. Russell, still on earth, died in 1916.

In the early 1920s, JWs zealously distributed on the streets and from door to door a book titled Millions Now Living Will Never Die. It was prophesied, "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914 ... we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old ... to the condition of human perfection" ("Millions Now Living Will Never Die," The Watchtower, 7/15/24, p. 89). The JWs even built a house in San Diego where the patriarchs were to live and tried to deed it to King David. (The house was quietly sold in 1954.) In the early 1940s, JWs were declaring that Armageddon, only months away, would end World War II and the defeat of the Nazis would usher in God's rule on earth (The Watchtower, 12/41). Their book, Children, suggested that plans to marry and have children be postponed until after Armageddon. It's been a long wait! Not giving up, they later prophesied that God's millennial kingdom would commence in 1975. Again JWs were told not to engage in any plans for this world, including marriage and having children. Many quit their jobs, sold their homes, and dedicated themselves to going door to door. (Source: 3/97, The Berean Call.) All in all, the Watchtower has predicted the end of the world for 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1989.


http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/jw.htm
 
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calidog

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Lisa0315 said:
Do not be deceived. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. They promote a "gospel" that preaches that only 144,000 will be saved. If this is so...oh, well, I think God's quota has been met a long time ago...
You'll find the same "on the surface" at the Mormon's site.
 
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calidog

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RichardT said:
Also , I dont think it's wrong to have this doctrine , they will try even harder to get into the kingdom of God then :p..

But seriously , they follow the bible... What else do they need to do to get saved ? They interpret certain things , so do I ... Can you tell me something that is extremely wrong with there religion ?
The bible says if you confess by mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Jesus said you will know them (saved) by their fruits. He said that if we love Him (believe He is Lord) we will follow His commands.

Many JW's don't realize they're being duped, but the teachers and leaders are on a slippery slope.
 
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calidog

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Forest said:
From their website they believe...

Christ is inferior to God.

Christ was created.

Christ was raised as an immortal spirit person.

The soul ceases to exist at death.

I believe these are all contrary to scripture, except perhaps their own translation which is different than most, if not all others.
they are ALL contradictory to the bible
Book of Revelation warns about changing scripture.
 
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TruthSetsYouFree said:
If us Christians invested as much into our 'religion' as they do, we would be light years ahead! But our God doesn't want us to invest time in our 'religion' because we have to... but because we want to... thus, Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with our heavenly Father. :)
we can though by thoroughly reading and studying scripture
 
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calidog said:
we can though by thoroughly reading and studying scripture

Yes, I agree!

I was just saying that often you see the JW's walking around hitting the streets to witness their faith... they spend a lot of time for their religion... it's sad many Christians just goto church once a week and think they are cool. :sigh:
 
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RichardT said:
I visited the Jehova's witness site and I didn't see anything about the angel being Jesus... I searched Jesus , and they think he is what it says in the bible about him...

I think JW are really cool people for not celebrating pagan traditions aswell..

I was once a Jehovah's Witness and it is completely true, they teach Michael = Jesus. Most have really good motives however there is quite a lot of what they teach that cannot be proven biblically...such as baptism as a Jehovah's Witness is essential for salvation...but I think the biggest problem is that they are so works based that your entire walk with God is driven out of fear instead of a deep love for Him.
 
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Svt4Him

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As a side note, and a credit to their organization, I once mailed the HQ in Canada to request a copy of an article from 1924. I asked it to be sent to a PO box on the other side of the country. A few months later, a JW showed up at my house, although he was surprised I wasn't a JW. When he came back, there were three of them.

They also wouldn't open the meeting in prayer with me. I am an apostate, as I have studied about their religion and still don't agree with it.
 
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RichardT

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hintonas said:
See that is the problem so many people are worried about doctrine and denomination that they are really missing the point. Christ is the focal point not what group you belong too.

But these cults are sending people to hell...
 
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Lisa0315

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hintonas said:
See that is the problem so many people are worried about doctrine and denomination that they are really missing the point. Christ is the focal point not what group you belong too.

It is not about denomination, but it is certainly about doctrine. There are core teachings that are essential to Christianity and salvation. Christ's deity and resurrection are two of them. JW's do not believe either.
 
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It doesn't have everything to do with their doctrine alone... JWs also practice shunning, should any of their congregation so much as question doctrine or the word of the Watchtower organization.

If a member leaves the organization, their family and friends are NOT to be in contact with them for fear of the same treatment.

They are also not permitted to even *read* anything regarding any other religion, or even parts of their own Bible unless expressly directed to read that chapter/verse.

If you read a little deeper, you'll find the false prophecies as well. There are many occasions where the organization predicted the "end times" as certain dates (which also directly goes against our Bible -- Jesus said that only the Father knows).

A very good site to learn more is www.towerwatch.com ... these are former JWs, most of which are now Christians. :amen:
 
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