Question to Creationists (and IDers..)

tocis

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<irony>
Creationists with their prideful ignorance are clearly outside the reach of evolution, never adapting to their environment (e. g. facts and literal mountains of evidence) but instead demanding that the environment adapts to them. Despite this blatant violation of the rules of the evolution game they are still out there. Kind of looks like an involuntary refutation of evolution, don't you think?
</irony>

:D
 
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Asimis

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tocis said:
<irony>
Creationists with their prideful ignorance are clearly outside the reach of evolution, never adapting to their environment (e. g. facts and literal mountains of evidence) but instead demanding that the environment adapts to them. Despite this blatant violation of the rules of the evolution game they are still out there. Kind of looks like an involuntary refutation of evolution, don't you think?
</irony>

:D

By your own logic humans are evidence against Evolution because we adjust the enviroment to suit our needs.


As.
 
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RightWingGirl

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For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.
 
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Merlin

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Asimis said:
If you had to point out a single piece of evidence that you think debunks Evolution, what would it be? Or lack of evidence if you will. Also, What do you consider to be the strongest piece of evidence in support of Creationism(ID)?

Thanks.


As.
Asimis,

I would say the mind.
It may not be as concrete/scientific as you personally prefer. But that would be my answer.
 
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Douglaangu v2.0

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I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%.


Hold on...you just made that number up didn't you?

Lemme get this straight. You're saying evolution is false because there are not enough fossils in existance for the time frames to be correct, yet you've just pulled this figure out of a hat.

Don't you see something wrong with that?
 
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nitesco

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RightWingGirl said:
For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.

Hmmmm I'm thinking it's a lot less the 50% of animals that leave fossils. Counter argument. If evolution were not true, then why don't we find fossils out of order? An Ape in the cambrian for example.
 
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nvxplorer

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And, as everyone knows, we should be able to find all fossils of all species in a matter of minutes.

C’mon, RWG. Finding and excavating fossils is a time consuming process. New finds are continuously being made. Missing links (also known as transitional species ;) ) are being discovered all the time.
 
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Asimis

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RightWingGirl said:
For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.

Well I am not sure why this is evidence against Evolution. Evolution does not predicts that we should find X number of fossils. It does predicts however what fossils we should find and where. So, what matters is not the amount of fossils that we find but what fossils we find and where we find them.

Sure, there are gaps in the fossil record and there will probably always be. But this is no evidence against the theory. All fossils that have been found confirm the predictions of Evolution and perfectly fit into the universal phylogenetic tree. Evolution is also supported by many other lines of evidence, it does not depends on the fossil record only.


As.
 
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Asimis

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nvxplorer said:
C’mon, RWG. Finding and excavating fossils is a time consuming process. New finds are continuously being made. Missing links (also known as transitional species ;) ) are being discovered all the time.

That is another issue to take into consideration RWG. The "quest" for fossils is fairly recent if you think about it.


As.
 
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tocis

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RightWingGirl said:
3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

Please set up some firmly-planted goalposts now mylady.
Just how often do we have to give you the answer before you stop ignoring it?

EDIT:

And then there's the mountain of evidence aside from the fossil record, which is perfectly enough to establish evolution as the best explanation there is out there even if no fossil would ever have been found... let me guess - you just accidentally forgot that though this has been said in this forum a gazillion times?

Let's get that straight: If we are wrong then you will be able to refute our refutations of your claims. Go ahead. If you can't do that... I strongly suggest you re-consider your position.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Missing links (also known as transitional species ;) )
That's a bit of a misnomer. Missing links are ancestor-species common to a later group of decendant species (most notable example is the 'missing link' between apes and humans. most people, including myself at one point, thought that we wnt apes --> missing link --> humans, but it turns out that the missing link in this case is a proto-primate, the ancestor of all primates, and from which each primate species sperately evolved). :p

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?
50%? That's one harsh margin. Do you really know that few animals become fossilized? Consider how many, say, T-rex dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and how many recognizable fossils remain today. 50% of all T-rexes? :doh:

As to the OP, there is no evidence for Creationism. At least, not scientifically.
 
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tocis

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Asimis said:
Well, the creationists disagree and they say they have evidence.

Strange how no one of them is ever able to actually present that "evidence", no? They all claim to have The Evidence(TM) which blows up evilution(TM) once and for all, they all claim that yes, this is something we've never heard before... and when pressed, they all have nothing but the same old nonsense yet again. :D
 
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caravelair

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nitesco said:
Hmmmm I'm thinking it's a lot less the 50% of animals that leave fossils.

i'm thinking it's probably a lot less than 1 in a million that actually leaves a fossil.

hmm, strange how all creationist arguments instantly crumble under the slightest criticism.
 
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Lord Emsworth

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RightWingGirl said:
For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.


There are enough fossils. Waaaay to many for YEC.

 
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Beastt

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RightWingGirl said:
For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.
I'm a little confused about the numbering system you're using here. It makes me wonder if by chance, you've been given this information by someone else who perhaps doesn't fully understand what they're trying to tell you.

Isn't "3,000 million" what most of us in the U.S. would call, "3 Billion", or are you attempting to avoid the confusion caused by the descrepancy between the U.S. "Billion" and the British "Billion"?

Aside from that, I'm curious as to how anyone determined the number of fossils that "should" be found. It seems this would require not only fairly accurate knowledge of populations of extinct animal species but also the specifics of the environments in which each of them died. Fossilization is actually an extremely rare occurence. Decay is the most common fate of all animal remains and only fails to occur when the remains are locked into an environment either naturally toxic to bacteria or which seals the remains from an exchange of gases necessary to bacterial action.

As has been pointed out, even if we had never found a single fossil, evolution still stands as the best conclusion we have which explains the evidence pertaining to species diversity.

As far as transitional fossils, my question to you would be similar to my question about how many fossils should be found and how that was determined. What transitional fossils do creationists predict should be found that haven't been found? Why is it expected that these "missing links" should be found? I often get the feeling that creationists picture evolutionary process more as a metamorphosis within individual animals than a gradual change across many generations of animals. Lizards don't turn into dogs. Evolution is a process of branching ancestry. While some lizard-like creatures might undergo genetic changes which will, through quantum changes to their offspring, eventually lead their distant offspring closer to a mammalian physiology, others, due to differences in their environments, will remain reptilian. So do creationists believe we should be finding fossilized remains which are half reptile and half mammal? If so, then they clearly do not understand what is stated by the theory of evolution.

Beyond that my question to you concerning transitional fossils takes the form of a simple demonstration. I'm going to suggest to you that the number on the left made a small change and produced the number to its right. Gradually changes to each lead to the next until distant generations became the number on the right. I'm purposely not going to fill in every step to simulate what I think you mean by "missing links", and I'd like you to tell me where the missing links are.

1-1.3-1.31-2.4-2.63917-3.2-3.25-3.6-3.9851-4.01-4.753-4.8821- 5

Can you show me the missing links between 1 and 5?
 
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dlamberth

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RightWingGirl said:
For evidence agaist Evolution;
If Evolution were true, and we have been evolving for roughly the last 3,500 million years, and only in the past 1.6 million years we have had humans (erect), and modern animals in somthing like 250-300 million, and yet we have only a handful of sharply contested "missing links" to make up for 3,200 million years!

3,000 million years, why this large gap, where are the missing 80% of the fossils we should see? I know that few animals reach fossilization, so let us make it 50%. Where are these fossils?

This is the biggest question I have.
It's my understanding that it takes 100 million years for the whole surface of the earth to change. There's a lot of erosion going on in that time frame.


.




 
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