Floods, God's wrath or not?

greeker57married said:

Edial



Well, dear friend, I don't know where you get the idea that revealed does not mean applied. Clearly revealed means His wrath is presently revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness.

God bless
Greeker

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linssue55 said:

GOD'S WRATH................

deuteronomy 11:17
And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.


deuteronomy 29:23And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:


deuteronomy 29:28And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

kings 22:13Go ye, inquire of the LORD for me, and for the people, and for all Judah, concerning the words of this book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

ezra 5:12But after that our fathers had provoked the God of heaven unto wrath, he gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this house, and carried the people away into Babylon.

job 21:20His eyes shall see his destruction, and he shall drink of the wrath of the Almighty.

2 chronicles 12:7
And when the LORD saw that they humbled themselves, the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah, saying, They have humbled themselves; therefore I will not destroy them, but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon Jerusalem by the hand of Shishak.

2 chronicles 10:11For whereas my father put a heavy yoke upon you, I will put more to your yoke: my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

2 chronicles 12:12And when he humbled himself, the wrath of the LORD turned from him, that he would not destroy him altogether: and also in Judah things went well.

romans 9:22What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

zechariah 7:12Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

zechariah 8:14For thus saith the LORD of hosts; As I thought to punish you, when your fathers provoked me to wrath, saith the LORD of hosts, and I repented not:

romans 1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

romans 2:11For there is no respect of persons with God.

romans 9:22What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

romans 12:19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

romans 13:4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Ephesians 5:6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

colossians 3:6For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

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linssue55 said:

The Five Cycles of Discipline.......
Jesus MUST judge a nation by His perfect righteousness, and holliness, by His administration of justice. There are 5 cylces of discipline which He uses. These cycles are punitive measures against Apostacy, Reversionism, and Evil...a strong lack of knowing Him, His doctrine or His word.
Jesus will cause:
leviticus 26:14But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments

leviticus 26:15And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
leviticus 26:16I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
leviticus 26:17And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

The First Cycle of discipline: Lev. 26:14-17
Illness, failing economy, punishments (rejection of the laws of divine establishment),failure in warfare (Viet-Nam), under unsatisfactory treaty's (United Nations), we run scared with no one pursuing us.


leviticus 26:18And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins
leviticus 26:19And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
leviticus 26:20And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.

2nd cycle of discipline......v18-20
(also added 7 times more)
Break down in Nation, depression, work hard for no pay, economic downfall.



leviticus 26:21And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

leviticus 26:22I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate

3rd cycle of discipline.....v21 & 22
(also added 7 times more)
Violence destroys population, crime out of control.


leviticus 26:23And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;

leviticus 26:24Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins

leviticus 26:25And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
leviticus 26:26And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.

4th cycle of discipline......v23-26
(also added 7 times more)
He gives us the first three cycles to discipline us, to heed His word, but we don't obey His word....He strikes hard 7 times fold again. He will send among us yet much more disease, great shortage of food, take 3 bites of bread and still hungry, very definate historical disasters and catastrophy's.



leviticus 26:27And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
leviticus 26:28Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins
leviticus 26:29And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
leviticus 26:30And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
leviticus 26:31And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
leviticus 26:32And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it
leviticus 26:35As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it
leviticus 26:33And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
leviticus 26:34Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths
leviticus 26:36And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth
leviticus 26:37And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
leviticus 26:38And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.

5th cycle of discipline.....v27-38
(also added 7 more times to the previous multiplied cycle's of discipline)
We do not listen to His doctrines, you will no longer have food, you will eat your children, your shoes, your belt, total starvation. He will cause dead flesh to atop idols, desolate city's, holy places are made dumb, cowards running scared, we can't stand up against our invading enemies, our country will be conquered by our enemies. Enemy invader, Russia?, China?,. Communism?.

The only way to end these cycles of discipline is for the majority of that nation to be believers and to learn and APPLY doctrine (Epi-Gnosis Doctrine) for this makes the Laws of divine establishment possible.

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greeker57married said:

Dear linssue

The Greek word for "revealed" in Romans 1:18 is apokaluptō which means according to Thayer:

1) to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

1a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

So clearly God's wrath is being make manifest to those who are unrighteous.

God Bless
Greeker

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1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “a sea of troubles” or “All the world's a stage” (Shakespeare).
2. One thing conceived as representing another; a symbol: “Hollywood has always been an irresistible, prefabricated metaphor for the crass, the materialistic, the shallow, and the craven” (Neal Gabler).

greeker57married said:

Edial



Here is what Strong's concordance says Quote: G601
ἀποκαλύπτω

apokaluptō

ap-ok-al-oop'-to

From G575 and G2572; to take off the cover, that is, disclose: - reveal.

The meaning is to unveil to make manifest, to show.

Apply, plied means 1. to put or spread on, 2. to put to some practical use, apply one's knowledge to a problem. 3. to apply to a person or thing with a suitable term. 4. to apply one's self to work. To make a formal request, to be appropriate, suitable or relevant. (The Webster's New World Dictionary: Second College Edition)

Tor reveal and to apply have two totally different meaning. In no way can revealed mean "applied."

God bless
Greeker

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shernren said:

What about what Jesus says about disaster?

Luke 13:1-5

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

They asked Jesus why God had let these disasters befall them. Were those who were killed more wicked? Were those who were spared more righteous? Jesus refuses to answer that and instead warns those who were spared that they too will perish..

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shernren said:

John 9:1-3

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."

Again, they asked Jesus why God had let these disasters befall them. Was it his sin? Or his parents? But Jesus answered that it was not because of their sin. Instead it was for the purpose of the glory of God. Look how He continues:

v4, 5: "As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

He never bothered with: why is this happening, but He asked: what shall we do about it?..

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shernren said:

It's very easy during these uncertain times in the wake of the hurricane, to want to have control and to put God into our comfortable little box. God did this because that, God wasn't behind this because of that. But can you understand God's motives? God's judgment? I know I can't. For me to demand to know why God judges in such a way, is like a 5-year-old kid asking his dad why Microsoft is being asked to pay for Windows. It's beyond me, pure and simple.

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shernren said:

But: how do we know that this is specifically God's judgment? I believe that when God is truly sending disaster on a region as a direct result of its wickedness the way He did in the Bible, He will forewarn those people through His prophets and dreamers and teachers. He will cause signs and wonders, He will bring chances for revival and repentance. And if the people reject Him then only He will strike. This has been His pattern all through the Bible. Every time He directly punishes for sin He makes it very, very clear that this is a punishment and not just a matter of random natural movement. Jonah was sent to Nineveh, the two angels were sent to Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's ark was built as a sign for his people..

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shernren said:

Why am I confident of this? Think about it. Let's say you are a father and your son has done something wrong. You wouldn't just sneak up behind him and suddenly smash something on his head right?? You'd bring him to your room or something, explain clearly what he's done wrong, explain why he's being punished, and then punish him. That would be the only way to effectively discipline him. In the same way if God is using a particular natural disaster He isn't going to make it look like some freak accident. If God really truly directly brought this about He isn't going to give any chance for the sincere seekers to doubt that it is Him speaking...

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shernren said:

And one last thing: it's easy to start discussing and debating about Job under such conditions. But we should keep in mind a warning in the way God ended the book:
After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7) What were Eliphaz and his friends saying about God? Precisely that if Job had been good, God would spare him from calamity, and since Job had been struck by calamity, he had not been good. May we be humble in the face of disaster that God permits.

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DrBubbaLove said:

Were Job's children not God's children then?

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linssue55 said:

Can't get much plainer than this, IF you only open your eyes. If you don't, then you are just negative to the word of God, and refuse to except His Judgements, because of your own personal views on the subject that you will not let go of. Either you believe in ALL of God, or NOTHING of God, is He is testing you right now?

Are you the you the one saying vain words? Trying to convince us your way? Is it that you, for personal reasons just "CAN"T accept the Lords punishments to His own children? Are you afraid that "if" it is true (first class condition....and it is true) that your human expectations of what the Lord should be in your eyes, He has let you down? Do you think that the Lord is just a big ball of LOVE and nothing more? Do you think the Lord can just sit back and allow His childern (revesionist believers) to CONTINUALLY do the things they do, and have NO HEAD of His words? Do you think that the Lord will allow His children to futher their destruction onto others that are faithful to His word, for them just to take over HIS HOUSE, with their evils and multitudes of sin, and to destroy the faithful children, and for the Lord to sit and watch? The answer is no, For He consumed the entire first generation of the Exodus, His children, for just this type of evil. Who is right? You or God?

Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

colossians 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

The sin unto death for the revesionistic believer......Isa 38:17 & 18......

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