Attn Catholics: Alarming article!

Fantine · Aug 26, 2005

I found this article to be a little confusing.

Brother Roger was a Swiss Protestant.

At one point his funeral service is called a "Eucharistic Service." At another point it is called a Mass. The funeral service is celebrated by a Catholic cardinal.

But do you think, if Brother Roger were Protestant, that the service was in fact a commemorative Eucharistic service with no consecration taking place? That would seem more likely, since Brother Roger was a Protestant.

I still wouldn't understand, then, why the Cardinal was the celebrant.

MichaelFJF · Aug 26, 2005

Fantine said:
I found this article to be a little confusing.

Brother Roger was a Swiss Protestant.

At one point his funeral service is called a "Eucharistic Service." At another point it is called a Mass. The funeral service is celebrated by a Catholic cardinal.

But do you think, if Brother Roger were Protestant, that the service was in fact a commemorative Eucharistic service with no consecration taking place? That would seem more likely, since Brother Roger was a Protestant.

I still wouldn't understand, then, why the Cardinal was the celebrant.

You're confused that the press perhaps didn't get all the facts straight?

Milla · Aug 26, 2005

gitlance said:
This thread, and several other threads similar to this recently, saddens me. There are many people out there looking at Rome, wondering whether or not they should convert. I myself have given it thought from time to time. But sadly, I always rethink that after coming here and seeing things like this. Not only are all of you passing judgment on a man none of you knew (and while Christ gave the Church lots of authority, He never gave her laity the authority to state the condition of someone's soul), you are passing judgment on a Bishop and the Holy Father! Do you honestly believe you are wiser than they? I'm sure they knew full well what they were doing. Have you ever thought that perhaps the Cardinal asked the Pope's permission to give out the Holy Communion before the funeral even took place? There is so much in this that we don't know, and I find it astonishing that so many people in this thread have elevated themselves above the Bishops, Cardinals, and the Holy Father.

For those of you who say that Brother Roger was "unworthy" to receive the Holy Communion, I think you should examine your own lives. That man shared a vision, I believe, with St. John Paul II. He wanted to see a day in which all Christians could live together without persecution from each other. Yes, the Catholic faith must maintain its principals, but you need to trust your bishops and Pope to do what is right, even if you may not understand or agree with them.

I am ashamed at what I have seen in OBOB lately, and I hope you all seriously think about this the next time you seek sacramental confession. The minute the Holy Eucharist is used for division is the same minute that Christ has departed the Holy Eucharist.

Pax Christi.

I am praying about this.

RhetorTheo · Aug 26, 2005

Is this worse than kissing the Qur'an?

InnerPhyre · Aug 26, 2005

RhetorTheo said:
Is this worse than kissing the Qur'an?

Absolutely.

RhetorTheo · Aug 26, 2005

gitlance said:
Not only are all of you passing judgment on a man none of you knew (and while Christ gave the Church lots of authority, He never gave her laity the authority to state the condition of someone's soul), you are passing judgment on a Bishop and the Holy Father! Do you honestly believe you are wiser than they? I'm sure they knew full well what they were doing. Have you ever thought that perhaps the Cardinal asked the Pope's permission to give out the Holy Communion before the funeral even took place? There is so much in this that we don't know, and I find it astonishing that so many people in this thread have elevated themselves above the Bishops, Cardinals, and the Holy Father.

For those of you who say that Brother Roger was "unworthy" to receive the Holy Communion, I think you should examine your own lives. That man shared a vision, I believe, with St. John Paul II. He wanted to see a day in which all Christians could live together without persecution from each other. Yes, the Catholic faith must maintain its principals, but you need to trust your bishops and Pope to do what is right, even if you may not understand or agree with them.

It is indeed sad that some people here believe that its more important to be true to the Catholic faith than to endorse any and all actions by clergy, especially the Pope. As you say, those who say that non-Catholics are "unworthy" to receive Holy Communion are persecutors. We should trust the bishops even when their actions contradict that constant teaching of the Church. I can't believe the thread wasn't closed for its spirit of persecution.

InnerPhyre · Aug 26, 2005

RhetorTheo said:
It is indeed sad that some people here believe that its more important to be true to the Catholic faith than to endorse any and all actions by clergy, especially the Pope. As you say, those who say that non-Catholics are "unworthy" to receive Holy Communion are persecutors. We should trust the bishops even when their actions contradict that constant teaching of the Church. I can't believe the thread wasn't closed for its spirit of persecution.

Amen. How could people say that those who have never had sacramental confession are unworthy when each and every one of us Catholics are unworthy ourselves without sacramental confession? Evil persecutors. For shame.

ProCommunioneFacior · Aug 26, 2005

RhetorTheo said:
It is indeed sad that some people here believe that its more important to be true to the Catholic faith than to endorse any and all actions by clergy, especially the Pope. As you say, those who say that non-Catholics are "unworthy" to receive Holy Communion are persecutors. We should trust the bishops even when their actions contradict that constant teaching of the Church. I can't believe the thread wasn't closed for its spirit of persecution.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you being sarcastic?

Paul S · Aug 26, 2005

RhetorTheo said:
It is indeed sad that some people here believe that its more important to be true to the Catholic faith than to endorse any and all actions by clergy, especially the Pope. As you say, those who say that non-Catholics are "unworthy" to receive Holy Communion are persecutors. We should trust the bishops even when their actions contradict that constant teaching of the Church. I can't believe the thread wasn't closed for its spirit of persecution.

We should trust the bishops when they contradict Church teachings?

I do hope this was sarcasm.

plainswolf · Aug 26, 2005

RhetorTheo said:
It is indeed sad that some people here believe that its more important to be true to the Catholic faith than to endorse any and all actions by clergy, especially the Pope. As you say, those who say that non-Catholics are "unworthy" to receive Holy Communion are persecutors. We should trust the bishops even when their actions contradict that constant teaching of the Church. I can't believe the thread wasn't closed for its spirit of persecution.

InnerPhyre · Aug 26, 2005

Paul S said:
We should trust the bishops when they contradict Church teachings?

I do hope this was sarcasm.

Of course, because those Protestants in GT are right about us. The Pope does all our thinking for us, right?

ProCommunioneFacior · Aug 26, 2005

plainswolf said:

So, it is sarcasm...

plainswolf · Aug 26, 2005

proud2bcatholic said:
So, it is sarcasm...

That's the way I took it, and if so, its VERY TRUE!

InnerPhyre · Aug 26, 2005

For those are so eager to include Protestants....I ask you this....What about the Orthodox? The Pope has said he wants to heal the schism. Do you think the Orthodox would want ANYTHING to do with us while we are passing out communion to Protestants?

plainswolf · Aug 26, 2005

I don't get this at all... there are so many people in this thread and nobody is saying anything..LOL!

..It's like everyone's holding their breathe waiting for something... or, perhaps this is become the new hangout thread... "O'Reilley's #99 -the Alarming Article Room" ..LOL!! ^_^

Globalnomad · Aug 26, 2005

Markh said:
"Brother" Roger converted to Catholicism but kept it a public secret.

That was how ecumenical his ideas were- he was too ashamed to admit to an ecumenical group that he had became a Catholic.

Why do you hate him so, Markh?

InnerPhyre · Aug 26, 2005

I think we can do without the hyperbole.

ProCommunioneFacior · Aug 26, 2005

InnerPhyre said:
For those are so eager to include Protestants....I ask you this....What about the Orthodox? The Pope has said he wants to heal the schism. Do you think the Orthodox would want ANYTHING to do with us while we are passing out communion to Protestants?

Let me think about this for a minute :scratch:

...

NO WAY!

Globalnomad · Aug 26, 2005

Fantine said:
I found this article to be a little confusing.

Brother Roger was a Swiss Protestant.

At one point his funeral service is called a "Eucharistic Service." At another point it is called a Mass. The funeral service is celebrated by a Catholic cardinal.

But do you think, if Brother Roger were Protestant, that the service was in fact a commemorative Eucharistic service with no consecration taking place? That would seem more likely, since Brother Roger was a Protestant.

I still wouldn't understand, then, why the Cardinal was the celebrant.

Fantine, I can answer that. I saw the entire service live on French TV. It was a real, full Catholic Mass. Communion was indeed distributed to everyone who went up to receive; there was no announcement at the beginning of Mass that non-Catholics should refrain; there was no invitation for everyone to go to Communion, either. The fact that in Taizé, by definition, a sizable part of the congregation is non-Catholic, was passed over in silence.

On the other thread (now closed) I defended the decision of giving a dispensation for non-Catholics to go to Communion on that occasion. Now that I come to think of it, there could be another explanation: there may not have been a formal dispensation: it was simply passed over in silence, on the basis that the Taizé congregation is religion-savvy enough to know who may go to Catholic Communion and who may not. That is the equivalent of any parish priest handing out Communion every Sunday without questioning everyone who goes up, if they are in a state of grace and believe in the Real Presence.

marciadietrich · Aug 26, 2005

InnerPhyre said:
For those are so eager to include Protestants....I ask you this....What about the Orthodox? The Pope has said he wants to heal the schism. Do you think the Orthodox would want ANYTHING to do with us while we are passing out communion to Protestants?

The Orthodox basically feel the protestants are our red-headed illegitmate step child so not sure what they'd think in our trying to reconcile them to us other than that is the mess we got ourselves in.

Still, in any other conversation it would be "who cares what they think, it is what is right or what is true. Too bad if they don't like it." I mean they allow divorced people to remarry, we don't - tough cookies, isn't that the sort of thing usually said in their regard?

As far as I can tell if there is an ability to give a dispensation to someone who isn't Catholic, hasn't gone to sacramental confession and doesn't hold our faith then there is a gap in ideology already present. The most this issue raises is the matter of how many protestants we're talking about, not if or if not we're passing out communion to protestants. It is already allowed given certain circumstances and I'm not sure if the Orthodox have any equivilent thought - not that I know of.

Marcia

Attn Catholics: Alarming article!

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