Anti-Christ Fallacy...

Interesting point

Maybe in the endtime, things will be so extreme that deception would be extreme.

RevKidd said:

this future Anti-Christ will come to power and then be killed or healed and raised back up...

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Rev 13:3 does not talk about the Antichrist. It talks about the beast out of the sea.

RevKidd said:

But the beast represents a conglomeration of many... The Anti-Christ is the leader of the Beast. Just like Pres. Bush is representative of the US so is the Anti-Christ the same representative of the Beast.

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No, if you're talking about Rev 13, there are 2 beasts: 1 out of the sea and 1 out of the earth. The latter one stands for the Antichrist, not the first one.

But regardless of what you believe the relation of the Anti Christ and the beast is, many still hold to the fallacy which I have presented.

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Could be. But then the fallacy is because they don't interpret Rev 13 correctly.

The antichrist is not brought back from death, but from a what appears to be fatal wound:

Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Besides, speaking of the "Wicked one" of 2Thes.2:8, he is said to come after the workings of satan with "all power" and signs and wonders.

Personally, I think the antichrist will be several things, including a man, as resricting God with limitations is a typical thing we mortals do. He literally shouts out His will within His creation being "all in all".
IMO, the beast that was healed of a near wound to death would be Islam with its false prophet Muhammed. It was severely wounded back in the 1700s at Tours France and the gates of Vienna before being turned back from overtaking the entire civilized world, but has been revived by the beast that has a head like a lamb but speaks like the devil. America calls itself Christian, like a lamb, but is very warlike and profane with it's distribution of filth and immorality to the world. Who was it that revived Jihad if not the West with money for oil? What was of no power at all is back to threatening to lead the whole world into Armageddom. Besides this scenerio, I think it also possible God will bring forth a man as a leader of the last coalition of nations that will have many victories in battle, as Daniel depicts this "little horn" with a face of a man speaking great things, saving Israel at first, but then turning against her for not worshipping him as God....

So the next question would be... Where in scripture do you ever find that Satan has resurrection or healing powers...?

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I am sure you right about resurrection power, but there are plenty of examples of demonic healing in "the field." Author Johanna Michaelson was a former assistant to a psychic healer. Also, humans can heal others naturally [as a physician does], it isn't a stretch to acknowledge demonic healings.

I'm not defending the healing/resurrection supposition, because I don't know enough scripture about it, either way. I just don't think the Bible demonstrates every possible variation of demonic activity.

Another example of this is early in "Foxe's Book of Martyrs." I believe the story goes that a sorceror was flying under the power of levitation. Two of the twelve disciples [I don't remember which] saw this and prayed. When they broke his power, he fell to his death.

I have since heard, from reliable sources, about other incidents of levitation. I do not recall seeing that in the Bible, at least, not by demonic sources [see II Kings 6:6].

Sabertooth

The field of medicine today is very advanced...

RevKidd said:

I know that there are many people here are who are adhere to the idea of the Rapture - 7 year Tribulation - Second Coming and so forth...

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Sure, sure, agreeing with that...

RevKidd said:

However, there is a problem with some doctrinal, and theological theories that concern the Anti-Christ.

First I will say that I understand that not a futurists believe the same, so my comments are to those who feel that this future Anti-Christ will come to power and then be killed or healed and raised back up...

The idea that the Anti-Christ will take some type of mortal wound and be raised from the dead or healed from near death and possessed or controled by Satan is a huge theological fallacy and here is why...

Who is the one that brings the Anit-Christ back to life or heals the Anti-Christ? According to the futurist idea it is Satan.

So the next question would be... Where in scripture do you ever find that Satan has resurrection or healing powers?

To hold to the theory that Satan raises the Anti-christ from death or near death also creates a theological catastrophe for Christianity. How can we then validate Christ's own Resurrection with a devil, who is capable of the same... Do you see the conflict that could arise.

Now you might say that God would allow satan to do so... I would say, show me in scripture. That answer is an interpretational assumption.

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Ummm... I think it's been pointed out already and I pretty much agree that he is not killed. Maybe he gets aids or something and produces the cure? I think the world would bow down to him in a heart beat if that were the case.

I'm just wondering where you got that idea... *does a google search* ...LOL you been reading "the indwelling" from the LB series???

RevKidd said:

The idea that the Anti-Christ will take some type of mortal wound and be raised from the dead or healed from near death and possessed or controled by Satan is a huge theological fallacy and here is why...

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Rev kidd Hello,

Very good, your right.

The beasts of Rev. 13

First the disscussion of the two beasts of Revelation 13. If you notice that the first beast, the beast of the sea, arises up from the sea. The sea is a reference of the bottomless pit in which he was cast into in the previous chapter. This beast is the king of the bottomless pit, Satan the devil. Also you notice that this beast has many parts in which compose of his kingdom.

The first beast is not a man but Satan and is demonic kingdom.

The second beast from the earth ( man) is the son of the first beast his father the devil. He is a man, the man of sin, the son of perdition, the so-called Antichrist, the little horn. This beast gets his power from the first beast.

The second beast is a man, likened unto a lamb with two horns claiming to be the returned Christ. The two horns represent the "house of Judah" in which the lamb originates.

Now you should see the parrallel of God the father and his son to this demonic counterpart.

The head wound

The wound is to ONE of it's seven heads of the FIRST beast not to the second which we call the Antichrist. This is the first error of today's teachings.

Also that this wound to be a literal "head" wound suffered by a world leader which dies, resurrected or something, and then lives again. Due to this miraculous event the world will follow this beast. Sounds good, but there is no scriptural evidence for this theory.

The truth is that this "head wound" parallels the vision of the great tree in Dan. chapter 2 whereby Nebuchadnezzar received a wound by a sword and did live but his dominion, not his life, was taken away. Later in the vision we see that his kingdom his restored by it's roots (ten toes).

Dan. 4:14 “He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree (head of gold), and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches: Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots (10 toes) in the earth, even with a band iron and brass…”.

Dan. 4:26 “And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule”.

Four beasts with the seven heads of Dan. 7

These four beasts are future and comprise of the final fourth kingdom upon the earth.

1. They arise up out of the sea together (Dan. 7:3). They have thier dominion taken away but are all seen still alive up till the return of Christ (Dan. 7:12-14). They are also seen rising up out of the sea with the first beast in Rev. 13 with only 42 months to remain.

2. There are four kings (Dan 7:17).

3. These four beasts parrallel the four beasts which are around God's throne.

4. These four beasts have seven heads.

Lion- Head #1
Bear- Head #2
Leopard- Heads #3,4,5,6
Fourth Beast- Head #7

I believe these 7 heads parrallel the 7 churches in which God sits and our seen as the "mountains of Israel" in Ezekiel chapter 6.

Thus as with the fourth kingdom being future, the seven heads of these four beast are future as well.

Lion - Head # 1 - Stands as a man with a man's heart. This is the head which is wounded.

Bear- head # 2 - Dominion taken away
Leopard - Heads # 3,4,5,6 - Dominion taken away

4th Beast- head # 7 - Under this beast the kingdom will be restored among thy roots (ten kings), by the little horn whom is the eighth but of the seven.

As in the case of Nebuchadnezzar, we see Satan’s kingdom which will be the fourth kingdom upon the earth recieve a wound unto death but the kingdom will be restored among his roots by the “little horn” of the ten kings of the fourth beast.

The world will follow the beast not because he has a literal head wound which has been healed but because they believe it is Jesus Christ, I mean who could make war with him…...

In Christ, Mark.

Here's a website for thought with regard to the beast and prophecy...

By the way, if you don't like it, I don't necessarily endorse it, but I do find it interesting... I am curious what you all think of this take on prophecy.

http://www.remnantofgod.org./flash/theacss4.html

RevKidd said:

I know that there are many people here are who are adhere to the idea of the Rapture - 7 year Tribulation - Second Coming and so forth...

However, there is a problem with some doctrinal, and theological theories that concern the Anti-Christ.

First I will say that I understand that not a futurists believe the same, so my comments are to those who feel that this future Anti-Christ will come to power and then be killed or healed and raised back up...

The idea that the Anti-Christ will take some type of mortal wound and be raised from the dead or healed from near death and possessed or controled by Satan is a huge theological fallacy and here is why...

Who is the one that brings the Anit-Christ back to life or heals the Anti-Christ? According to the futurist idea it is Satan.

So the next question would be... Where in scripture do you ever find that Satan has resurrection or healing powers?

To hold to the theory that Satan raises the Anti-christ from death or near death also creates a theological catastrophe for Christianity. How can we then validate Christ's own Resurrection with a devil, who is capable of the same... Do you see the conflict that could arise.

Now you might say that God would allow satan to do so... I would say, show me in scripture. That answer is an interpretational assumption.

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There is no scripture for this becsuse Satan does NOT have the Power to Resurect or resuscitate, Nor is he Omniscient, Omnipresent, or Omnipotent. But there are Engothromuthous Demons that can indwell and cause many outer manifestations. I have heard this story too, Satan only wishes he had the powers, but He is an EXCELLENT MAGICAN!

Check out the article 'Antichrist' at www.jewishencyclopedia.com for an interesting take.

linssue55 said:

There is no scripture for this becsuse Satan does NOT have the Power to Resurect or resuscitate, Nor is he Omniscient, Omnipresent, or Omnipotent. But there are Engothromuthous Demons that can indwell and cause many outer manifestations. I have heard this story too, Satan only wishes he had the powers, but He is an EXCELLENT MAGICAN!

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let's see......Rev..ch..13,,,v..15.....and he had power to give life unto the image of the beast.....speaking of the false prophet......

ikester said:

let's see......Rev..ch..13,,,v..15.....and he had power to give life unto the image of the beast.....speaking of the false prophet......

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ikester,

If you look closely it is the second beast which gives life unto the image to make it speak.

Re 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.Re 13:12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.Re 13:13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,Re 13:14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.Re 13:15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The second beast IS the false prophet so the image of the beast relates to the first beast in which he is able to get the world to worship. Sounds familiar does it not.

The true prophet has caused us to worship God, the false prophet has caused the world to worship the first beast his father Satan.

Thus the image of the beast would relate to the image of the invisable God in which in many times past spoke to his people. Could you imagine not only those upon the earth believe they are in the presence of Christ but also to hear an image (equaled to the burning bush in some way) speaking......

What a strong delusion......

In Christ, Mark.

ikester said:

let's see......Rev..ch..13,,,v..15.....and he had power to give life unto the image of the beast.....speaking of the false prophet......

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The beast was in-dwelt by one of his co-horts. They do in-dwell, even dead bodys.

Revkidd,

The idea that the antichrist will receive a fatal wound and then be healed probably is a misunderstanding of the scriptures. This is why... the beasts that are described in revelation, as I believe you pointed out, are not simply representations of one man. For example the beasts of revelation 13 and revelation 17 that both have 7 heads and ten horns etc (same in daniel by the way) the seven heads almost certainly represent seven kings, ie seven individual people of authority who were also the embodiement of seven kingdoms through out history. The seven heads of the beast in rev. 17 also represent seven hills we are told. In addition to all that, the beasts do represent one man. Confusing eh

In revelation 17 it tells us that the seven heads are seven kingdoms (so the beast here represents seven kings or kingdoms, probably seven individual men who were the embodiment of their kingdoms such as Pharoh, Senachareb, Nebuchadnezer, Cyrus, Alexander, Caesar, etc etc) But rev. 17 also tells us that the beast is itself an eight king, so the beast is also an individual, who belongs to the seven.. or very possible, IS one of the seven.

Then we have the famous description that leads so many to believe the antichrist will be shot in the head and live that the one of the beasts seven heads will be wounded unto death and then recover... given the understanding of rev. 17 this almost certainly means that one of the 7 historical kings will return, not that the future 8th king will be wounded and then recover.

This idea is further born out, infact I would say proved by Rev. 17 when it decribes the beast, 8th king as "he who was, is not, and yet shall come up out of the abyss and go to destruction" This entire chapter is keyed to John's time (otherwise it makes no sense at all) and it deffinetly states a few times that the beast "was" meaning he already was alive upon the earth once.. and is currently held in the abyss... this this almost certainly precludes the understanding that the future antichrist will be wounded to death then resurected.. it much more probably presents a picture in which the future antichrist is a reincarnated form of one of the seven historical kings.

Now.. you may take issue with the idea of re-incarnation.. however consider it from this view point... it may not be refering to a man exactly, but perhaps the spirit of a man, or behind a man.. Just as John the baptist came in the spirit of Elijah... perhaps the antichrist will come in the spirit of, (and claiming to be the reincarnation of) one of the seven kings

Faith_Warrior said:

Sure, sure, agreeing with that...
Ummm... I think it's been pointed out already and I pretty much agree that he is not killed. Maybe he gets aids or something and produces the cure? I think the world would bow down to him in a heart beat if that were the case.

I'm just wondering where you got that idea... *does a google search* ...LOL you been reading "the indwelling" from the LB series???

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The on going fallicy is to speak of anti christ as a person. Anti christ is a spirit.
The false prophet that promotes peace through the anti christ system and its leader is the one we shall see and hear. It is that false prophet that like Judas will be the son of perdition. The false prophet will first appear as a disciple of Jesus and his covenent, make peace with all religions and then betray everyone