Prophecy..and divivsons in the church.

The divisions are in the secondary issues. The gifts of the Spirit, the rapture, the millenium, women in the clergy etc;. But most Christians agree on the core tenents of the faith. (However, I'm not saying those other issues are not important.)

One's views on prophecy are irrelevant to one's salvation. But that is not to say that prophecy is completely irrelevant to the Christian walk and lifestyle. How prophecy is fulfilled gives insight into the nature of God, it gives us glimpses into the afterlife, what happens at death, etc. Some are content with the view that you live a good life and you die and go to be with Jesus. If those people are content to walk in a condensed version of the bible that could be fit into a Chick Tract then that is fine. But the Bible reflects the complexity of God's nature, and from what we can see and understand about the creation's complexity we must assume that the Creator is even more complex.

For every truth there can be an almost infinite number of lies. Some people come here to learn, others come to teach their version of the truth. I hope that most people realize that any teaching is going to require prayer and guidance from the holy spirit to determine the truth. It isn't a matter of how much evidence is presented in a particular post, it is a matter of what the spirit within you bears witness to.

i went from a church that basically din't believe in any of the spiritual gifts to a church that did
i began to see spiritual gifts working in the lives of the people around me and then when i began to seek after God more and more i began to realize that they were also working in me
now im not saying that i can prophesy over people but i do know that God tells me things and when i listen to Him things work out better then i could have expected.

In my opinion a lot of the problems come because of lack of tolerance. Many Christian denominations disagree about doctrine of their own churches beliefs but if you ask them about basic things like Do you believe Jesus is the son of God and that we should follow his teachings to the fullest most of us will say yes, of course.

It seems the problem comes in when denominations get caught up in rituals such as should we take communion every sunday or just on the first sunday or should we allow ministers to get married or not get married and so on and so on.

I don't think prophesy should be overlooked by any means but when it clouds our view of the real purpose of salvation and hinders our walk with the Lord I think that is when we have to step back and re-evaluate.

Romans 14:5 says: One man esteemeth on day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

And Romans 14:14 says I know, and I am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:but to him the esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

I strongly encourage people to rent the Frontline video "Apocalypse" from your library. It does an excellent job of documenting the HISTORY of beliefs in the Church (and even in O.T. times) concerning bible prophecy.

The reason why the Church has to debate some issues is because the Church is not unified under a unified authority and doctrine and also because certain truths have not been nailed down and properly understood.

The early church debated constantly on the NATURE of Jesus Christ and his incarnation and connection to the divine for the first four centuries of the Church. Only then did we get a sense of "orthodoxy" on the issue. We have no similar agreement yet on bible prophecy, and there are at least four main views that have been held in Church history:

Preterism
Historicism
Futurism
Idealism

For certain, there is only one true doctrine on endthings handed down by Christ and the apostles. It's just that the Church has not agreed on it yet.

I grew up Lutheran, very subdued and not carasmatic, then attended a very carasmatic pentecostal church for a couple years. I remember one time the Pastor began talking about spiritual gifts since there were a few people who had just begun speaking in tongues.

I was enthralled with these beautiful gifts but couldn't speak in tongues while it seemed like everyone else was.

I later moved and went to another church where several people had the same gifts and many others had different gifts. Later I went back to a non-denominatinal church which was very conservative for my wife who was a new Christian (fearing that the more carasmatic churches would make her uneasy).

At this church, people did not have any of the fore mentioned gifts, but I felt that I could really grow at this church and did grow spiritually in many ways, even though there was no one with the gifts. Why is this? Is realizing your spiritual gifts really that important of a part of your spiritual growth?

Coastie, I have been in several different churches, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pentacostal, Jehovah Witness, and Non-denominational. And I have found that a lot of people do not have the gift of speaking in tongues. But people that do believe that they can speak in tongues use them just as a sign of praise. I think realizing your spiritual gifts are important but makes you no more or no less than a christian that has these spiritual gifts. Many Pentecostal churches speak in tongues because the is part of their doctrine to be able to do so.

Here is a scripture that I found in the KJV bible about gifts: I Corinthians 12:7-11: 7)But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8)For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. 9)To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10)To another the working of the miracles; to another prophesy; to another discerning spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues: 11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

So you may have another gift that you can utilize. Here is another scripture that may help you also: 1 Corinthians 14: various verses. Verse 1-6 Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophesy. 2)For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification and exhortation, and comfort. 4)He that speaketh in an uknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5)I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifiying. 6) Now bretheren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by knowledge, or by prophesying or by doctrine ?

..Verse 9 So like wise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken ? for ye shall speak into the air. ..Verse 12 Even so ye forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13)Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. Verse 18-19 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. And finally Verse 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that beleive, but to them that believe not:but prophesieing serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Hope that helped. Bless you.

Gifts are not a sign of spiritual maturity. We see this in Paul's letters where he has to give words of wisdom to an immature church because of misuse of the gifts. It is the fruit of the spirit that is a sign of spiritual maturity, and it is the fruit that will help you through the tough times of life. The ability to prophesey won't help you when you grieve for a loved one who has died, but peace, love, joy, etc. will certainly help to lessen your pain.

Spiritual gifts without the fruit of the spirit leads to pride, and we all know where pride leads. You can be a strong christian without gifts, but you can't survive without the fruit.

Revelations 1910 says that "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy"

Remember to put the Bible in perspective the Gospel Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are the story of Jesus. Acts is the Begining of the Church, Romans thru Revelations are letters written to established churches.

John 3:5 says that ye must be born of the water and the Spirit to see and or enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 says that you must repent be baptized in Jesus name and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, look at how they received the Holy Ghost and how they knew that they had received the Holy Ghost and everyone in the book of Acts. There is a difference in the evidence of the Holy Ghost and the gifts of the Spirit.

I thought the original post here was about the existing prophecy in the Bible, not the "gift of prophecy" some people have.
I can study the existing end time prophecies, without having the gift of prophecy.

This so true, The gift of prophecy is to prophesy on the furture

There is many interpertations in Bible prophecy because they all try to make it fit their beliefs

Originally posted by Willis Deal
One's views on prophecy are irrelevant to one's salvation. But that is not to say that prophecy is completely irrelevant to the Christian walk and lifestyle. How prophecy is fulfilled gives insight into the nature of God, it gives us glimpses into the afterlife, what happens at death, etc. Some are content with the view that you live a good life and you die and go to be with Jesus. If those people are content to walk in a condensed version of the bible that could be fit into a Chick Tract then that is fine. But the Bible reflects the complexity of God's nature, and from what we can see and understand about the creation's complexity we must assume that the Creator is even more complex.

For every truth there can be an almost infinite number of lies. Some people come here to learn, others come to teach their version of the truth. I hope that most people realize that any teaching is going to require prayer and guidance from the holy spirit to determine the truth. It isn't a matter of how much evidence is presented in a particular post, it is a matter of what the spirit within you bears witness to.

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Aman brother Willis very will said. I for one agree with you

I believe the different denominational and individual views on prophecy are a very healthy thing . What got man to the moon in the 60's was competition . I believe it is christian competition that is driving the spirit of truth , bringing with it new truths and understandings . You only have to look at the past when christians were under one umbrella , they all lived in darkness and much evil was comitted and very little light came through . But now the flood gates are open and it's open slather on prophecy and I love It . But I detest the standover merchants who would send you to hell because you dared to think freely .

...One's views on prophecy are irrelevant to one's salvation...

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I believe one's views on prophecy could take on relevance to one's salvation in the future.

I believe knowing the rapture's timing is important because Jesus said it's possible for those who believe to subsequently "be offended" by tribulation and "fall away":

"The same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended" (Matthew 13:20-21).

"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (Matthew 24:9-12).

"They, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation [peirasmos] fall away" (Luke 8:13).

"Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try [peirasmos] you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter 4:12-13).

I believe Jesus told us everything we'd have to face beforehand for a good reason, so that we would be less likely to be offended and fall away: "Take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things (Mark 13:23). "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6). To be forewarned is to be forearmed: mentally, emotionally, and spiritually (and possibly even physically, if the Lord so leads).

I believe the pre-trib doctrine could be setting up many in the church for great disappointment and confusion and the falling away from the faith: "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith" (1 Timothy 4:1), and this departure from the faith will happen before Jesus comes to rapture us: "We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him... Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [apostasy] first" (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 3).

...I don't think prophesy should be overlooked by any means but when it clouds our view of the real purpose of salvation...

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Some people think it's a "heresy" to believe the wrong thing about the rapture's timing. But I don't believe eschatology itself can be heretical because a heretic can't be saved (Galatians 5:20-21), and we aren't saved by our eschatology (Romans 10:9-10).

But I do believe that a wrong eschatology can lead to the changing or the inventing of other doctrines in order to conform to our eschatology. Pre-trib doctrine can define salvation to include being saved from the tribulation. When it's pointed out that a great multitude of saved Christians will be in the great tribulation (Revelation 7:14), it then must define the church as only those saved before a pre-trib rapture; after that it's only Israel and an invented class of believers called "trib saints." Then we get into the problem of Christians "from every nation" (Revelation 7:9, 14) saved after the cross and after Pentecost (i.e. not OT), who are outside of the church, when Paul said there was only one faith and one body (Ephesians 4:4-6).