Hi guys,
I have a quick question: What's the basis for the Catholic priesthood?
Doesn't Heb 10:10-14 contradict it?
-Jason
I have a quick question: What's the basis for the Catholic priesthood?
Doesn't Heb 10:10-14 contradict it?
-Jason
Another question: What's the basis for the Catholic priesthood?
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In the footnotes for Hebrews 10:10 I found this:
From what I could find in the Catechism this section on Holy orders may help clear up some confusion:
Basically the Bishops are believed to be successors of the Apostles. Jesus said "As the Father sends me, so I send you" telling his disciples to go into the world and do some of the things he had done. The Apostles ordained others who ordained others, who ordained others etc... Every Bishop in the world today somewhere along the line of people that ordained him at the beginning was an Apostle who was ordained by Christ himself. Just as Christ created the office of Bishop the bishops created the office of Priest so that the priests may spread God's message to the world.
From what I could find in the Catechism this section on Holy orders may help clear up some confusion:
Basically the Bishops are believed to be successors of the Apostles. Jesus said "As the Father sends me, so I send you" telling his disciples to go into the world and do some of the things he had done. The Apostles ordained others who ordained others, who ordained others etc... Every Bishop in the world today somewhere along the line of people that ordained him at the beginning was an Apostle who was ordained by Christ himself. Just as Christ created the office of Bishop the bishops created the office of Priest so that the priests may spread God's message to the world.
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The basis for both the ministerial priesthood ("priests") and the baptismal priesthood (believers... the priesthood of all the baptized) is their participation in the one priesthood of Christ. The ministerial priesthood is specifically in service to the other group and also carries on the mission Christ gave to the apostles.
It is true, the OT priesthood was a foreshadow of the priesthood of Christ. The OT sacrifices did not do what the cross did.
The Catholic Catechism is readable on the topic, and the previous poster gave a paste of it. I don't know if you wanted any extra comment beyond that, so just my two cents.
It is true, the OT priesthood was a foreshadow of the priesthood of Christ. The OT sacrifices did not do what the cross did.
The Catholic Catechism is readable on the topic, and the previous poster gave a paste of it. I don't know if you wanted any extra comment beyond that, so just my two cents.
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Fr. Rob
Defender of the Primitive Faith
One other thing to keep in mind, the term Priest, in English, is a translation of the latin Sacredos which is a *terrible* translation of the greek word Presbyter, which means elder. The original term, Presbyter, is still used in a few Catholic Churches as a normative term (mine included). Our Canons, Liturgy, etc.. always refer to the second order of ministry as Presbyter. In the Roman Church, and in virtually all Catholic Churches, you can look at a Priest/Presbyter Ordination certificate or licence, and you will see the words Presbyterate, Presbyter, etc... on the certificates.
The Presbyterate has an interesting history. Originally, the two normative orders were Bishops and Deacons, the Presbyters evolving over time to assist in the management of the Church and in assisting the Bishop-Celebrant at the Lord's Table. After about 200 a.d., and even more heavily after the legalisation of Christianity in the 330's, the Presbyterate underwent a major change. Bishops were no longer in charge of two to three hundred Christians, but of thousands of Christains in their cities (later Dicoese). They could not celebrate and preach for all of them, so the Presbyters were finally given licence to officiate on a regular basis at the Eucharist around 390.
The first mention in the Ordination rite of the Presbyter that we have of the power to celebrate the Eucharist is found in the Gregorian Sacramentary, c. 500-600 a.d.
Again, hope this has been helpful.
Father Rob
Anglican Catholic
The Presbyterate has an interesting history. Originally, the two normative orders were Bishops and Deacons, the Presbyters evolving over time to assist in the management of the Church and in assisting the Bishop-Celebrant at the Lord's Table. After about 200 a.d., and even more heavily after the legalisation of Christianity in the 330's, the Presbyterate underwent a major change. Bishops were no longer in charge of two to three hundred Christians, but of thousands of Christains in their cities (later Dicoese). They could not celebrate and preach for all of them, so the Presbyters were finally given licence to officiate on a regular basis at the Eucharist around 390.
The first mention in the Ordination rite of the Presbyter that we have of the power to celebrate the Eucharist is found in the Gregorian Sacramentary, c. 500-600 a.d.
Again, hope this has been helpful.
Father Rob
Anglican Catholic
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Hey Jason,
We know that Christ is the high Priest in the order of Melchedizek from the letters of St. Paul. Melchedizek offered up bread and wine, as did Christ at the Last Supper. Christ told his Apostles to continue to do this in his memory.
The priestly portion of a Reverend's duty is to allow us to Sacramentally join everything that we offer to the Father with the sacrifice of Christ where it will please God. Christ gave his Apostles and their sucessors this ministry at the Last Supper. There was but one sacrifice, but we offer our sacrifices up with it forever. Remember the Lamb of Revelations that sat before the Father in Heaven was a slain Lamb.
Sorry, but I'm in between exams...if this doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I'm in a real hurry.
God Bless you all, My Friends,
Neal
We know that Christ is the high Priest in the order of Melchedizek from the letters of St. Paul. Melchedizek offered up bread and wine, as did Christ at the Last Supper. Christ told his Apostles to continue to do this in his memory.
The priestly portion of a Reverend's duty is to allow us to Sacramentally join everything that we offer to the Father with the sacrifice of Christ where it will please God. Christ gave his Apostles and their sucessors this ministry at the Last Supper. There was but one sacrifice, but we offer our sacrifices up with it forever. Remember the Lamb of Revelations that sat before the Father in Heaven was a slain Lamb.
Sorry, but I'm in between exams...if this doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I'm in a real hurry.
God Bless you all, My Friends,
Neal
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the priesthood is the greatest and best job oneself could have
to lead the flock and a full time worker in his vineyard
we believers r only semi-workers that is to share our faith with others
not like the priest
spreading the word of god is their job from morning to night
they need not go to office and sit there and wait for a pay
to lead the flock and a full time worker in his vineyard
we believers r only semi-workers that is to share our faith with others
not like the priest
spreading the word of god is their job from morning to night
they need not go to office and sit there and wait for a pay
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Revelations talks about no marriage in heaven. Heaven is when the kundalini is raised to the 7th level (we call this Coronation or Sahasrara; Pure Reason is blue) and away from the bottom of the spine where it is been dormant except for the occasional call to action.
As the kundalini is raised the 'bloodflow' to the lower parts of the body is reduced and celibacy is easily mastered by the priest who is called to be at the fourth level of chakra during ordination (which is celebrated with the "laying on of hands)." The fourth level is aimed to raise the spiritual awakening to the heart in which the ordinate is envisioned by a surrounding light and seeing this divine light he becomes filled with wonder and desires to raise the kundalini to its fullness of the seventh level (on towards Easter which is the seventh day on which darkness night did not follow the day). It is expected that after the fourth level his mind does not return to the "lower centers" because when the image of night is gone also its invitation to participate will be gone ("no night" Rev.22:5 because of the everlasting light).
The above makes celibacy a necessary condition for a priest (if indeed he is called to be a priest prior to ordination), and one must wonder why only Catholicism is aware of this fact in Christendom.
As the kundalini is raised the 'bloodflow' to the lower parts of the body is reduced and celibacy is easily mastered by the priest who is called to be at the fourth level of chakra during ordination (which is celebrated with the "laying on of hands)." The fourth level is aimed to raise the spiritual awakening to the heart in which the ordinate is envisioned by a surrounding light and seeing this divine light he becomes filled with wonder and desires to raise the kundalini to its fullness of the seventh level (on towards Easter which is the seventh day on which darkness night did not follow the day). It is expected that after the fourth level his mind does not return to the "lower centers" because when the image of night is gone also its invitation to participate will be gone ("no night" Rev.22:5 because of the everlasting light).
The above makes celibacy a necessary condition for a priest (if indeed he is called to be a priest prior to ordination), and one must wonder why only Catholicism is aware of this fact in Christendom.
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chakra? kundalini? This sounds like yoga. I seriously believe mixing this kind of yoga with Christianity is dangerous. I was there once...and it was painful, especially all the nightmares. Thank God He set me free!
-Jason
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Jason maybe yours was not accompanied by a Beatific Vision in which case you were handed a scorpion instead of a fish. That would explain the nightmares.
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Chili,
I have no idea what you're talk'n about. This page, written by a Catholic, clearly points out that Catholicism and Yoga do not go together:
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0275.html
God bless
-Jason
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Hansel and Grethel thought the same thing when they first went into the forest. They put out breadcrumbs as deeds of righteousness and soon found that they were lost because the ravens (evil) had picked them away and so they died while doing good works while lost in the journey of life.
The priesthood helps us to carve altars (sacraments) along our journey of life and if ever we get lost we will always find our way home, and right back into Eden.
The priesthood helps us to carve altars (sacraments) along our journey of life and if ever we get lost we will always find our way home, and right back into Eden.
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Chili,
For the sake of any non-Catholics who may have the misfortune to read your stuff, Chili, I have to say that there is only a very tangential relationship between what you write and what the Church teaches. Not to put too fine a point on it, it is wierd, idiosyncratic, syncretic, contrary to the teachings of the Church, unhelpful and a complete waste of time for anyone seeking the truth of the Catholic faith. Not only are you in no position to teach, you badly need to unlearn a great deal of what you think you know. If you are looking for a venue in which to put forth original and novel theologies, this isn't it.
P.S. No one on this planet has had the Beatific Vision,
and I find the strong implication that you have had it both amusing and worrisome.
Bye for now,
Lee
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Thanks, Lee but there is nothing novel about my theologies. It may be new to you but that is no reason to suggest I leave. So why do you think "no one" and if so how can we have knowledge thereoff."
Many have seen "the light" and if that is possible why is a Beatific Vision not possible? Leave me out of the argument because I never suggested I did.
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Wolseley
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Absolute and utter gibberish. I haven't read such a mish-mash of New Age/Hindu mystic/neo-Gnostic nonsense in a long time. patriarch, I'm afraid I have to agree with you. Whatever stew Chili is serving up here, it is definitely not Catholicism.
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Fr. Rob
Defender of the Primitive Faith
To understand the doctrine of the Priesthood, it is necessary to understand first the celebration of the Eucharist, and the players involved in that great act of corporate worship.
First, we must recall that the Eucharistic assembly consists of the people of God united together through their Baptism, and anticipating together that perfect sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving that is coming at a later point in the service.
The conduct of the Eucharistic service is a corporate act, not a stage-act put on by choir and clergy (as in many Protestant Churches). While the Catholic liturgy has long been abused by choirmasters who insisted on liturgical settings that prohibited the people from participating, we are -- thankfully - beyond that for the most part in our day. The Celebrant-Presbyter is the presider of the Liturgical assembly, making prayers in the name of all the people. However, the people must participate in those prayers (thus the bidding, "Let US pray". . . not Let ME pray) through their personal throughts as well as their corporate AMEN! to the prayer as offered. We hear the readings, the Homily. . . but we are not called to be mere spectators, but to actively engage our minds and spirits in "wrapping ourselves" in the mysteries that are presented to us. (thus, from time to time, in small groups, it is highly appropriate for the Homilist to use the dialoge-homily form, allowing feedback and questioning, though I would maintain that this is not suitable for a Sunday or Holy Day Eucharist)
Then we come to the Creed. Again, we offer our faith up to God as a further sacrifice, because the Christian faith is a sacrifical faith. All who make sacrifice are Priests. Keep that in mind.
After the Creed, the role of the Celebrant-Presbyter takes on a new meaning. The role that the Celebrant-Presbyter (Or Bishop) plays is essentially that of the Elder, speaking on behalf of all of God's people assembled in that particular room of God's house. He is the one person in the room (unless there are several Presbyters!) who has been set apart in the Apostolic manner to serve in the office of Presbyter. We must remember that the term Priest for the second order of ministry is a latin corruption of the original greek. The greek word, Presbyter literally means elder, not Priest. Jerome and the Latin Church translated Presbyter as "sacredos" or "priest".
All in the congregation must participate fully, make responses, and pray for the needs expressed in the Eucharistic prayer, but it falls to the Celebrant-Presbyter to articulate that prayer to God by his special charism as a set-apart minister in Apostolic succession.
That each ministry has a specific role is attested to in the Acts of the Apostles, and the Presbyterate is one of the three Major Orders of the Church.
May God help our Protestant brothers and sisters to reclaim the heritage of Presbyters in Apostolic Succession (oh yea, and Bishops too!) so that the reunion we seek will come about! May we indeed all be one.
Father Rob
Anglican Catholic
First, we must recall that the Eucharistic assembly consists of the people of God united together through their Baptism, and anticipating together that perfect sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving that is coming at a later point in the service.
The conduct of the Eucharistic service is a corporate act, not a stage-act put on by choir and clergy (as in many Protestant Churches). While the Catholic liturgy has long been abused by choirmasters who insisted on liturgical settings that prohibited the people from participating, we are -- thankfully - beyond that for the most part in our day. The Celebrant-Presbyter is the presider of the Liturgical assembly, making prayers in the name of all the people. However, the people must participate in those prayers (thus the bidding, "Let US pray". . . not Let ME pray) through their personal throughts as well as their corporate AMEN! to the prayer as offered. We hear the readings, the Homily. . . but we are not called to be mere spectators, but to actively engage our minds and spirits in "wrapping ourselves" in the mysteries that are presented to us. (thus, from time to time, in small groups, it is highly appropriate for the Homilist to use the dialoge-homily form, allowing feedback and questioning, though I would maintain that this is not suitable for a Sunday or Holy Day Eucharist)
Then we come to the Creed. Again, we offer our faith up to God as a further sacrifice, because the Christian faith is a sacrifical faith. All who make sacrifice are Priests. Keep that in mind.
After the Creed, the role of the Celebrant-Presbyter takes on a new meaning. The role that the Celebrant-Presbyter (Or Bishop) plays is essentially that of the Elder, speaking on behalf of all of God's people assembled in that particular room of God's house. He is the one person in the room (unless there are several Presbyters!) who has been set apart in the Apostolic manner to serve in the office of Presbyter. We must remember that the term Priest for the second order of ministry is a latin corruption of the original greek. The greek word, Presbyter literally means elder, not Priest. Jerome and the Latin Church translated Presbyter as "sacredos" or "priest".
All in the congregation must participate fully, make responses, and pray for the needs expressed in the Eucharistic prayer, but it falls to the Celebrant-Presbyter to articulate that prayer to God by his special charism as a set-apart minister in Apostolic succession.
That each ministry has a specific role is attested to in the Acts of the Apostles, and the Presbyterate is one of the three Major Orders of the Church.
May God help our Protestant brothers and sisters to reclaim the heritage of Presbyters in Apostolic Succession (oh yea, and Bishops too!) so that the reunion we seek will come about! May we indeed all be one.
Father Rob
Anglican Catholic
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No it is not. It is just an argument to show that there is an archetypal truth (native to mankind), behind the sacrament of priesthood.
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