Downloading music

I hope you are aware that it is illegal to download copyrighted music, and that the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) is catching people breaking these laws and is suing them.

It is very popular to download these files anyway, but be aware that even though it is private, and probibly safe, and no-one will hate you for doing it, it is still illegal, and you have to decide what you will do.

ChristianTeen said:

My family bought a new computer for christmas. It has a cd burner. I was just wondering if anyone knows if there is a program or something that allows you to download music completely free. Thanks in advance.

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Tons. Soulseek stands out as a good one, though it does have server problems fairly frequently.

Whatever you do, though, don't use Kazaa. Spyware sucks.

..and if you like a band you find on p2p, go to a show! Best way to support them, considering the pittance that they get per album sold, particularly for non-mainstream bands. That, and it removes any question of "stealing".. morally, anyway, if not legally.

Pirating music is moraly right only if you do not consider obeying the Law to be moral, and Jesus certainly did (even when it was an opressive government charging high taxes).

Legally, the RIAA has been starting many lawsuits agains people using p2p software, and they are winning them.


It is WRONG both moraly and legally, but you do it, and you see no problem with it, because it is very inconvienient to have to pay so much for music, and not have as much of it as you want. Don't pretend that it is anything other than that

pete5 said:

Pirating music is moraly right only if you do not consider obeying the Law to be moral, and Jesus certainly did (even when it was an opressive government charging high taxes).

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Are we talking about the same Jesus, here? The one who broke the law to heal on a sabbath? The one who regularly associated with tax collectors and prostitutes, which was absolutely unhead of for a rabbi?

pete5 said:

It is WRONG both moraly and legally, but you do it, and you see no problem with it, because it is very inconvienient to have to pay so much for music, and not have as much of it as you want. Don't pretend that it is anything other than that

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Legally, yes. Morally, I think not. I have no interest in paying a bunch of rich pirates massively inflating CD prices for their own gain while they pay the bands next to nothing for spending all the effort making and recording music.

I support the bands, not bloated corporate heads who likely make more money annually then I will see in the next two decades..

Why don't you ind some local unknown bands and get a few tracks off their site, then it isn't e.g. zedisforzebra, lowdrive, the hearing, the senses, zyllah etc. That's what i do and it's completely leagal because they are allowing you to download their songs as marketing, so it helps them by people then buying their EP/album!

hehehe, Standsfortruth...


If you wanna debate this more, start a thread in philosophy & morality forum, and we can go into more detail, but for a short answer:

Jesus opposed religeous laws imposed be people who were more concerned with their own importance than in actual righteousness (such as not helping someone on the sabbath, and not associating with 'sinners') but he clearly told everyone to 'give to ceasar what is ceasars.' If Jesus tells people to pay taxes to a foreign country that is occupying their land, then I don't think he would be happy with us breaking the laws of the government we elected.


Paul also tells christians that they must follow their countries laws unless it contradicts Gods law:

Romans 13:1-2
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

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I don't think that Paul could be more clear than that.



So don't be fooled. Maybe supporting the recording companies is like buying Nike shoes made by child slavery, but pirating music is like shoplifting the shoes from the store.

pete5 said:

If you wanna debate this more, start a thread in philosophy & morality forum, and we can go into more detail

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Very well.

In Denmark it is legal to copy music you borrow in the library, but only for personal use though. Check your local laws in this matter

StandForTruth said:

. . . I have no interest in paying a bunch of rich pirates massively inflating CD prices for their own gain while they pay the bands next to nothing for spending all the effort making and recording music.

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They have to inflate their prices - because people like you keep stealing their product! Theft creates higher prices - no matter what form of theft it is. Sugarcoat it any way you want, but if the band doesn't authorize the download, it's stealing.

So what if the band's contract only nets them $1 per Cd sold - 10 people stealing instead of buying is a day without food for the artist, or the tank of gas they need to make it to the show and perform. The band makes the deal with the label, and the terms are none of your business - it's not for you to decide that the band got ripped off by the label, so you might as well rip off the label. Two wrongs do not make a right.

6string said:

They have to inflate their prices - because people like you keep stealing their product! Theft creates higher prices - no matter what form of theft it is. Sugarcoat it any way you want, but if the band doesn't authorize the download, it's stealing.

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Heh. But 99% of the bands I listen to do not give a flying [sexual act] if you download their music. And have said so. It is the labels that stand to gain from album sales, not the bands.

And eh, not really stealing, no. I take nothing, I simply make my own version. This breaks copyright law, but I have "stolen" nothing from anyone.

6string said:

So what if the band's contract only nets them $1 per Cd sold

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For non-pop bands, try a nickel per record. If that.

6string said:

10 people stealing instead of buying is a day without food for the artist, or the tank of gas they need to make it to the show and perform. The band makes the deal with the label, and the terms are none of your business - it's not for you to decide that the band got ripped off by the label, so you might as well rip off the label. Two wrongs do not make a right.

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Except, as I said, it is not about the band. Aside from the aforementioned pop music, they have day jobs anyway. They don't make money off their albums, so I would far rather spend the money I save on a show ticket and end up giving them easily 40-50 times as much. Perhaps more, if they are headlining.

Touring is what brings in the money for underground bands, not album sales.

The bands get paid by the record companies. If the record companies don't make money, they won't pay the bands to make more albums. No more albums means no mre joy for us. You are making the record companies sound evil, when you are the one doing the illegal act. If you can't afford a CD, wait a paycheck or two until you can.

6string said:

The bands get paid by the record companies. If the record companies don't make money, they won't pay the bands to make more albums. No more albums means no mre joy for us. You are making the record companies sound evil, when you are the one doing the illegal act. If you can't afford a CD, wait a paycheck or two until you can.

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Except it is not about affording albums. I cannot really afford much new music, true, but I can afford to buy used, or download. Neither of these give any money to the band or to the record company, so why is it an issue?

And yes, I am performing a technically illegal act. Illegal does not necessarily indicate immoral. The companies are performing a legal act, jacking up prices to the point of insanity, and giving next to nothing to the musicians. Legal does not necessarily mean moral.

So yes, I am getting free music. No, I am not hurting anyone, or taking anything from anyone. So why is this such an issue?

Bear with me, and I'll tell you why it's an issue:

I'm here as a Christian, and I truly believe that a good Christian is a law abiding citizen. I see what you are doing as stealing, and is a sin. For me to ignore it is the same as if I were to say to you "You can go to Hell." And that's not my way - I don't wish that on anyone.

I think you are creating your own Catch 22: you dislike record companies for their high prices, and yet your actions are part of the cause for those prices to go up. I don't think I've impressed my point on you, so I'm going to shut up - but please give it some thought.

OoO It is not ILLEGAL IF U BUY KaZaA Lite. Thats what their stuff site!! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] i have that, and it's good. but u have to pay, so its like ur buying the cd, its just easier. I dont use free ones b/c that is illegal and teh artists dont get their money

After trying to download some music, it made me buy more music! So that band sold 4 more records, because I downloaded some of their songs, and would like to own the real record. And on the other hand, if you respect the artist, you would buy their music!

www.zpoc.com

but yeah, buy the cd's when posible...

Well, there are certainly legal venues for downloading many things - but StandforTruth was admittedly condoning and encouraging illegal downloads.

StandForTruth said:

Except it is not about affording albums. I cannot really afford much new music, true, but I can afford to buy used, or download. Neither of these give any money to the band or to the record company, so why is it an issue?

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Buying used actually does help the band, albeit indirectly; part of the cost of a CD is based on its resale value.

So yes, I am getting free music. No, I am not hurting anyone, or taking anything from anyone. So why is this such an issue?

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Seems to me that the way to not hurt anyone would be to not take their stuff without paying for it.

6string said:

Bear with me, and I'll tell you why it's an issue:

I'm here as a Christian, and I truly believe that a good Christian is a law abiding citizen. I see what you are doing as stealing, and is a sin.

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One again: not stealing. I am making my own version of something. Copying it. Not taking anything from anyone. Where there was once one album (the original) there are now two (original and burned)