Quotes from Abe Lincoln you haven't heard before

ajm122188 · Jan 27, 2005

In Abraham Lincoln's 'Emancipation Proclamation of Sept, 1862, he said;

"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes [back to Africa], and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan [of colonization]. There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks.

I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal. Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro...under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can NEVER do here [in America]. We can never attain the ideal Union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, INFERIOR RACE among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.

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Lincoln actually proposed an amendment to the Constitution that would have authorized Congress to re-colonize all freed Blacks back to Africa. On Aug. 15, 1862, Congress did appropriate over one-half million dollars for that purpose. Thousands of Negroes had been shipped back to Africa when Lincoln was shot.

OhhJim · Jan 27, 2005

I'm sorry if you think we are people who are likely to believe a hoax such as this.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/

MatthewG215 · Jan 28, 2005

The North won, get over it.

MKalashnikov · Jan 29, 2005

I'm sorry if you think we are people who are likely to believe a hoax such as this.

While what the OP posted is incorrect, I offer These Abraham Lincoln Quotes, (With Sources)

I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. (Abraham Lincoln, 1st Lincoln-Douglas Debate, August 21, 1858 (See bartleby.com/251/ for full transcripts of these debates.)

[size=-1]I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and the black races . . . I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and the black races, which, I believe, will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. [/size](Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Columbus, Ohio, September 16, 1859. The text of the speech may be found in Complete Works of Abraham Lincoln, John G. Nicolay and John Hay, editors. (New York: Francis D. Tandy Company, 1894) 5:143-144. Additionally, the speech is available online at the Northern Illinois University site at this URL, as of 22 February 2002 http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu)

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Compare and Constrast Those quotes with This one from Robert E. Lee Taken from a letter in response to a speech given by then President Franklin Pierce:

I was much pleased the with President's message. His views of the systematic and progressive efforts of certain people at the North to interfere with and change the domestic institutions of the South are truthfully and faithfully expressed. The consequences of their plans and purposes are also clearly set forth. These people must be aware that their object is both unlawful and foreign to them and to their duty, and that this institution, for which they are irresponsible and non-accountable, can only be changed by them through the agency of a civil and servile war. There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Savior have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master; that, although he may not approve the mode by which Providence accomplishes its purpose, the results will be the same; and that the reason he gives for interference in matters he has no concern with, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbor, -still, I fear he will persevere in his evil course. . . . Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others?

TScott · Jan 29, 2005

ajm122188 said:
In Abraham Lincoln's 'Emancipation Proclamation of Sept, 1862, he said;

"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes [back to Africa], and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan [of colonization]. There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks.

I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal. Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro...under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can NEVER do here [in America]. We can never attain the ideal Union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, INFERIOR RACE among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lincoln actually proposed an amendment to the Constitution that would have authorized Congress to re-colonize all freed Blacks back to Africa. On Aug. 15, 1862, Congress did appropriate over one-half million dollars for that purpose. Thousands of Negroes had been shipped back to Africa when Lincoln was shot.

I think you should share with us the entire piece that you plagarized from the hate site....http://www.jameswickstrom.com/from_the_desk/dec12_04.htm

MKalashnikov · Jan 29, 2005

Quotes from Abe Lincoln you haven't heard before

Click to expand...

In Abraham Lincoln's 'Emancipation Proclamation of Sept, 1862, he said;

"I have urged the colonization of the Negroes [back to Africa], and I shall continue. My Emancipation Proclamation was linked with this plan [of colonization]. There is no room for two distinct races of White men in America, much less for two distinct races of Whites and Blacks.

I can think of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the Negro into our social and political life as our equal. Within twenty years we can peacefully colonize the Negro...under conditions in which he can rise to the full measure of manhood. This he can NEVER do here [in America]. We can never attain the ideal Union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, INFERIOR RACE among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.

The Preliminary Proclamation:

MKalashnikov · Jan 29, 2005

I think you should share with us the entire piece that you plagarized from the hate site....

While the quotes from the OP are incorrect, How do you contrast the REAL Lincoln quotes that I posted, with the Lee quote?

praying · Jan 29, 2005

From the Desk of Pastor James P. Wickstrom...

MKalashnikov · Jan 29, 2005

[size=-1]

[/size]From the Desk of Pastor James P. Wickstrom...

[size=-1]Actually:

Aryan Nations World Chaplain.[/size]

armyman_83 · Jan 29, 2005

"Any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing governmet, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world."
On the floor of Congress 1847------Abraham Lincoln

OhhJim · Feb 1, 2005

dittomonkey911 said:
While the quotes from the OP are incorrect, How do you contrast the REAL Lincoln quotes that I posted, with the Lee quote?

After further research, it appears to me that the OP, while deluded and wrong, isn't making stuff up out of whole cloth. It seems that at some point in the early war, Lincoln was contemplating colonizing an island or land in Central America with the former slaves (but not sending them back to Africa). In fact, at least one attempt to do this failed. (Battle Cry of Freedom, by James McPherson, chapter 16.)

Furthermore, it is true that Lincoln's position in the Lincoln/Douglas debates is accurately reflected in dittomonkey's quotes. Lincoln wasn't crazy about making Blacks equal with Whites, at least not publicly, in the 1850's. The Emancipation Proclamation was more of a political move than anything else. However, I don't believe in the accuracy of the OP's quotes until he supports them. They are certainly not part of the EP.

Anyway, it's all moot. Lincoln was a great president, but not the final word on whether equal rights should be granted to all humans, white, black, eskimo, oriental, or whatever.

wildthing · Feb 2, 2005

OhhJim said:
After further research, it appears to me that the OP, while deluded and wrong, isn't making stuff up out of whole cloth. It seems that at some point in the early war, Lincoln was contemplating colonizing an island or land in Central America with the former slaves (but not sending them back to Africa). In fact, at least one attempt to do this failed. (Battle Cry of Freedom, by James McPherson, chapter 16.)

I believe that the African country you speak of is Liberia.

MKalashnikov · Feb 3, 2005

After further research, it appears to me that the OP, while deluded and wrong, isn't making stuff up out of whole cloth. It seems that at some point in the early war, Lincoln was contemplating colonizing an island or land in Central America with the former slaves (but not sending them back to Africa). In fact, at least one attempt to do this failed. (Battle Cry of Freedom, by James McPherson, chapter 16.)

I had never heard of this.

wildthing · Feb 3, 2005

Ordeal by Fire 3rd edition by McPherson page 300-301 will have the same thought. 1862 The United States appropriated $600,000 to finance recolonization. But recolonization would end in failure. 450 African Americans did in fact go to island off the coast of Haiti. In 1864 368 African Americans return to the main land.

TScott · Feb 4, 2005

dittomonkey911 said:
While the quotes from the OP are incorrect, How do you contrast the REAL Lincoln quotes that I posted, with the Lee quote?

I don't argue that Lee was more enlightened than Lincoln in many areas. Lee, along with many of the south's generals wished the south had abolished slavery before ceceding from the union. They realized that slavery gave the the north a hot button issue to rally the troops around, and more importantly it deprived them of a powerful potential ally in Great Britain who, if not for slavery, would probably have become an active ally of the south.

MoonlessNight · Feb 4, 2005

TScott said:
I don't argue that Lee was more enlightened than Lincoln in many areas. Lee, along with many of the south's generals wished the south had abolished slavery before ceceding from the union. They realized that slavery gave the the north a hot button issue to rally the troops around, and more importantly it deprived them of a powerful potential ally in Great Britain who, if not for slavery, would probably have become an active ally of the south.

I wonder how much of an army of volunteers the north would be able to raise without the "abolish slavery" battlecry. True, they would still have "preserve the union", but the civil war was seen as a fight against slavery in the minds of a non-insignificant number of union soldiers.

MKalashnikov · Feb 5, 2005

more importantly it deprived them of a powerful potential ally in Great Britain who, if not for slavery, would probably have become an active ally of the south.

Which is precisely why Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation.

OhhJim · Feb 8, 2005

MoonlessNight said:
I wonder how much of an army of volunteers the north would be able to raise without the "abolish slavery" battlecry. True, they would still have "preserve the union", but the civil war was seen as a fight against slavery in the minds of a non-insignificant number of union soldiers.

Not entirely true. In fact, after the EP was issued in January 1863, there was a lot of desertion in the Union Army, especially among Western troops. Abolition was more of an issue with Eastern Americans, especially those from Massachusetts, for example.

It's a generalization, but the South went to war to preserve slavery, while the North went to preserve the Union.

Agrippa · Feb 8, 2005

TScott said:
I don't argue that Lee was more enlightened than Lincoln in many areas. Lee, along with many of the south's generals wished the south had abolished slavery before ceceding from the union. They realized that slavery gave the the north a hot button issue to rally the troops around, and more importantly it deprived them of a powerful potential ally in Great Britain who, if not for slavery, would probably have become an active ally of the south.

I think that even if the south had abolished slavery, the UK still wouldn't have allied with them openly. They had a lot to lose, specifically Canada. They would at the very least have to mobilize a large army to defend the region and the Canadians were reluctant to provide for their own defense. At the same time, many working-class people in Britain identified with the north, seeing the Confederacy for the aristocracy that it was. While they wouldn't have been able to prevent British intervention, the British government was aware of the trouble they could cause.

Street Smarts · Feb 8, 2005

mhatten said:

Kinda of like REVEREND Jesse Jackson

Quotes from Abe Lincoln you haven't heard before

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