prettyrose436
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my church puts up a tree in the hall and my family puts up a christmas tree every year
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What place a Christmas Tree in the front of a church?
- Thread starter SonOfThunder
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Our church puts up trees and decorations and wreaths and swags and bows and lights, and it's so pretty!
As far as the tree being pagan and all that, go ahead and follow your conscience if you think it's wrong to have a tree. I simply disagree. Imagine my bewilderment when someone first told me that having a Christmas tree is a sign that I'm observing a pagan ritual, and what a sinner that made me! Uhhh, NO, my having a Christmas tree has NEVER been intended for some silly pagan ritual. Honest, the reason I put up a tree is because they are pretty. I don't even try to associate the tree with anything spiritual. it's just pretty and fun. Simple as that.
As far as the tree being pagan and all that, go ahead and follow your conscience if you think it's wrong to have a tree. I simply disagree. Imagine my bewilderment when someone first told me that having a Christmas tree is a sign that I'm observing a pagan ritual, and what a sinner that made me! Uhhh, NO, my having a Christmas tree has NEVER been intended for some silly pagan ritual. Honest, the reason I put up a tree is because they are pretty. I don't even try to associate the tree with anything spiritual. it's just pretty and fun. Simple as that.
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Because it comes from pagen origins and this is known, where do we draw a line? do we put up a big fat happy buddah statue because he looks happy? or a totem pole because it is decorative?lucypevensie said:
This is a place where we escape the rat race of distraction to concentrate on worship of our God. In the OT God was displeased with any Graven image.
I am stopping attending my church as next Sunday they are having santa come for the children after the service downstairs. The tree did bother me, but the arrival of santa is even more upsetting to me, Its too much right now
James
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pressingon
pressingon
Don't you feel you have an obligation as a Christian to TALK to someone in your church about these concerns (a pastor, deacon, elder, etc.), rather than simply just stopping your attendance there?SonOfThunder said:
I'm sorry, James... I don't mean to come across harshly, I understand your background makes these things difficult for you... but your decision to stop attending your church rather than speaking up and doing something about your concerns bothers me immensely more than the things you've described.
Trust me, you're not going to find a "perfect" church. God places us right where He wants us, and you're a part of your church for a reason. Perhaps sharing your perspective on these things is one of those reasons....
May God bless you as you seek His will in this matter.
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I'd draw the line when someone starts bowing down to the tree, or starts saying "Happy Winter Solstice" in church, and other obvious, blatant anti-Jesus Christ nonsense.SonOfThunder said:
Christmas trees are not graven images unless you make them to be. Actually, anything can be made a graven image. You could find something wrong with just about everything in the world and make it taboo. The names of the days of the week, and the months of the year,names of planets, drums, 5-pointed stars, organs, you name it. It cold get to the point where you're not allowed to enjoy anything of beauty or say their names because you might be acknowledging some false god. I'm just not going to live with that fear.
, (seriously, I'm not trying to be a crab. Hopefull I don't come across that way)
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lucypevensie said:
Hey, thats what a forum is for, to have a place to share our opinions with each other. Hopefully our opinions are not set like concrete and we can all learn from them and not take offence at all. James
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GreenEyedLady
My little Dinky Doo
What kinda baptist church is this? The santa thing would TOTALLY bother me. I would not stay because of that. But i would let the pastor know why I was leaving. Is this a SBC, independent or just regular baptist?SonOfThunder said:
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SumTinWong
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The mayor of our village visted the Presby church dressed as Santa last year. The pastor said someone very special was coming to visit them and won't they be suprised. I little kid jumped up and down I know, I know, I know! It is Jesus!!!
Boy did that kid get a let down
Boy did that kid get a let down
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Hi Mrs Green eyesGreenEyedLady said:
The church is an independant Baptist church. I think they get sponsored by people in America and also send money and support some missionaries.
I don't think it is run like I am used to. If the tithes dont come in they are in trouble for paying the rent on the buliding. It has about 70 people and one pastor.
Maybe the pastor is pressured for fear of losing people? I dont really know how they run as I haven't gone to the meetings as only members can go.
As far as I can see I have no say and I wouldn't presume people do have a say. Maybe they are led by their American sponsors? I dont know. I am used to the Governing Body making all matters uniform and deciding for congregations so people dont have a say.
Do you have a say in an indepentdant church?
Is santa coming to the children normal after church and not connected to the service?
James
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GreenEyedLady
My little Dinky Doo
Yes we have alot of say in the church.SonOfThunder said:
There is alot of voting that goes on and issues that are discussed at some buisness meetings. As far as somthing like this goes, I would meet with the pastor about my concerns. For example, During our first year attending this church I was worried about halloween and how they observed it. So i met with the pastor and asked him about it. I was releaved when he told me it was somthing they did not do and he preached against it. I discussed my concerns then about Christmas and Santa.
It is not normal for santa to come meet with the children in my church. Other baptist churchs might be differant. It doesn't make any sense to me. How can you preach the truth while telling children there is a santa?
It might be that the people tell thier children the truth, they are just thinking that it is a "fun" thing. I don't like it. Its too worldy. I am thankful that I have a good pastor who is convicted to NEVER compromise.
As far as the rest of the church, how is that going? Do you see evidence of the holy spirit when the preacher is preaching? Does he preach against contriversal things? Or does he seem to compromise with some worldy things other than holiday stuff?
How many people do you see accepting Christ at that church? Does the church seem to be a soul winning church?
GEL
Forgive me, I should have never stated i would leave because of the santa thing. God does work and does convict. I have been praying about a certain thing in my church and my prayer is being answered. James, pray first!
So sorry about that. That was uncalled for me to say that I would leave just for that reason.
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Terri
Senior Veteran
Hi Everyone!
Below are the bible verses that stopped me years ago from having a Christmas tree. It was hard to stop--it was like an addiction. But over time it got easier and easier and now I feel so much better without it.
I stopped because I simply loved that Christmas tree. It wasn't the tree so much as the pretty lights and shiny ornaments. I loved to stare at the tree. I really lifted up my soul to that tree. It was really the lust of the eyes big time for me. And, I believe that I was hurting God because I have found it very true when God says in the old Testament that He is a jealous God.
Now, I don't condemn those that have a tree, I think it is a personal decision. I believe that if the tree means too much to you that God will reveal it to you. If he does than I hope you don't fight Him on getting rid of it because there really is life after the Christmas tree. LOL
Now, I haven't just picked on the Christmas tree in my life. LOL There are other things that I have given up for these same reasons. And I've found that everything that I have given up just at the slightest possibility that it may make God jealous God has in turn blessed me exceedingly with increased Joy and closeness to Him.
There is nothing I won't give up for my Dear Father!!
1JN 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
PS 24:3 Who may ascend the hill of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
PS 24:4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to an idol
or swear by what is false.
PS 24:5 He will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God his Savior.
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Terri said:
Hi Everyone!
Below are the bible verses that stopped me years ago from having a Christmas tree. It was hard to stop--it was like an addiction. But over time it got easier and easier and now I feel so much better without it.
I stopped because I simply loved that Christmas tree. It wasn't the tree so much as the pretty lights and shiny ornaments. I loved to stare at the tree. I really lifted up my soul to that tree. It was really the lust of the eyes big time for me. And, I believe that I was hurting God because I have found it very true when God says in the old Testament that He is a jealous God.
Now, I don't condemn those that have a tree, I think it is a personal decision. I believe that if the tree means too much to you that God will reveal it to you. If he does than I hope you don't fight Him on getting rid of it because there really is life after the Christmas tree. LOL
Now, I haven't just picked on the Christmas tree in my life. LOL There are other things that I have given up for these same reasons. And I've found that everything that I have given up just at the slightest possibility that it may make God jealous God has in turn blessed me exceedingly with increased Joy and closeness to Him.
There is nothing I won't give up for my Dear Father!!
1JN 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
PS 24:3 Who may ascend the hill of the LORD?
Who may stand in his holy place?
PS 24:4 He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
who does not lift up his soul to an idol
or swear by what is false.
PS 24:5 He will receive blessing from the LORD
and vindication from God his Savior.
We do struggle with things of the world over things that are spiritual. The whole Christmas tree debate seems to add up to tradition and the 'feel good, pretty decorations' to the fact that many here say it is not idolised in their homes.
Thankyou for you post
James
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GreenEyedLady said:
hi Mrs Green eyes
I will try and answer your questions first.
The rest of the church is just different from what I know. The people are friendly when we share a drink after the service. The pastor came to my house once when I was very new. I didn't tell him my history at all, just avoided those questions with offering food or drink and changing the topic as the week before he talked on cults. That day he was after some help with the youth and asked me. I didn't say yes as he didn't know me and also I didn't know if the doctrine was right at all.
He speaks from topics in the Bible. He is doing a series on Biblical Women at the moment. I dont know what you mean by evidence of The Holy Spirit while he is talking. I guess that might mean if he is matching what he says with The Bible?
He did speak once on cults and I guess that was contraversial but in practice the santa dn the Christmas tree might be bending to what the people want...not sure.
I was the last new person to go to that church. They don't have a 'field work' programme but do have mid week Bible study 3 out of 4 weeks with one week as a meeting for members only. The giving of the bread and wine is also for members only I found out.
I dont know what is normal and what is not yet. This forum helps a lot. As far as leaving goes. I wont go over Christmas at all and will pray before I do anything.
James
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I'm with you James! If there is something that you believe is wrong, it's best not to participate in it.SonOfThunder said:
However, did you know that santa is based on an early saint, Nicholas, who was a godly Christian? I know he's not celebrated for his great faith anymore, and this bugs me a lot. Now he's just about presents and few know or care about his faith in God. I urge you to go to the library and get something about the real st nick. Not a lot is known about him, but the legends about him demonstrate good will and great faith.
In my mom's church, they had santa come on St Nicholas day in early december, and he would tell the story of why people want to celebrate his life, always pointing to Christ as the source of his faith and the true reason to celebrate Christmas. And Christmas was always only about the miracle that for 33 years, human beings could see God face to face as he dwelled among us.
By the way, you might be a lot more comfortable in an anabaptist church like the mennonites because they don't do Christmas trees OR santa claus.
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This is neat.
Late one Christmas Eve, I sank back, tired, but content, into my easy chair.
The kids were in bed, the gifts were wrapped, the milk and cookies waited by the fireplace for Santa. As I sat back admiring the tree with its
decorations, I couldn't help feeling that something important was missing. It wasn't long before the tiny twinkling tree lights lulled me to sleep. I don't
know how long I slept, but all of a sudden I knew that I wasn't alone. I opened my eyes, and you can imagine my surprise when I saw Santa Claus,
himself, standing next to my Christmas tree.
He was dressed all in fur from his head to his foot just as the poem described him, but he was not the "jolly old elf" of Christmas legend. The
man who stood before me looked sad and disappointed. And there were tears in his eyes.
"Santa, what's wrong?" I asked, "Why are you crying?" "It's the children,"
Santa replied sadly. "But Santa, the children love you," I said. "Oh, I know they love me, and they love the gifts I bring them," Santa said, "but the
children of today seem to have somehow missed out on the true spirit of Christmas. It's not their fault. It's just that the adults, many of them not
having been taught themselves, have forgotten to teach the children." "Teach them what?" I asked. Santa's kind old face became soft, more gentle. His eyes began to shine with something more than tears. He spoke softly. "Teach
the children the true meaning of Christmas. Teach them that the part of Christmas we can see, hear, and touch is much more than meets the eye. Teach them the symbolism behind the customs and traditions of Christmas which we now observe. Teach them what it is they truly represent." Santa reached into his bag and pulled out a tiny Christmas tree and set it on my mantle.
"Teach them about the Christmas tree. Green is the second color of Christmas. The stately evergreen, with its unchanging color, represents the hope of eternal life in Jesus. Its needles point heavenward as a reminder that mankind's thoughts should turn heavenward as well."
Santa reached into his bag again and pulled out a shiny star and placed it at the top of the small tree. "The star was the heavenly sign of promise. God promised a Savior for the world and the star was the sign of the fulfillment of that promise on the night that Jesus Christ was born. Teach the children that God always fulfills His promises, and that wise men still seek Him." "Red," said Santa, "is the first color of Christmas." "He pulled forth a red ornament for the tiny tree. Red is deep, intense, vivid. It is the color of the life-giving blood that flows through our veins. It is the symbol of God's greatest gift. Teach the children that Christ gave his life and shed his
blood for them that they might have eternal life. When they see the color red, it should remind them of that most wonderful gift."
Santa found a silver bell in his pack and placed it on the tree. "Just as lost sheep are guided to safety by the sound of the bell, it continues to
ring today for all to be guided to the fold. Teach the children to follow the true Shepherd, who gave His life for the sheep." Santa placed a candle on the mantle and lit it. The soft glow from its one
tiny flame brightened the room. "The glow of the candle represents how people can show their thanks for the gift of God's son that Christmas Eve long ago. Teach the children to follow in Christ's footsteps...to go about doing good.
Teach them to let their light shine before people that all may see it and glorify God. This is what's symbolized when the twinkle lights shine on the
tree like hundreds of bright shining lights, each of them representing one of God's precious children's light shining for all to see."
Again Santa reached into his bag and this time he brought forth a tiny red and white striped cane. As he hung it on the tree he spoke softly. "The candy cane is a stick of hard white candy. White to symbolize the virgin birth and sinless nature of Jesus, and hard to symbolize the Solid Rock, the foundation of the church, and the firmness of God's promises. The candy cane form's a
"J" to represent the precious name of Jesus, who came to earth. It also represents the Good Shepherd's crook, which He uses to reach down into all ditches of the world to lift out the
fallen lambs who, like all sheep, have gone astray. The original candy cane had three small red stripes, which are the stripes of the scourging Jesus received by which we are healed, and a large red stripe that represents the shed blood of Jesus, so that we can have the promise of eternal life.
TEACH THE CHILDREN
Late one Christmas Eve, I sank back, tired, but content, into my easy chair.
The kids were in bed, the gifts were wrapped, the milk and cookies waited by the fireplace for Santa. As I sat back admiring the tree with its
decorations, I couldn't help feeling that something important was missing. It wasn't long before the tiny twinkling tree lights lulled me to sleep. I don't
know how long I slept, but all of a sudden I knew that I wasn't alone. I opened my eyes, and you can imagine my surprise when I saw Santa Claus,
himself, standing next to my Christmas tree.
He was dressed all in fur from his head to his foot just as the poem described him, but he was not the "jolly old elf" of Christmas legend. The
man who stood before me looked sad and disappointed. And there were tears in his eyes.
"Santa, what's wrong?" I asked, "Why are you crying?" "It's the children,"
Santa replied sadly. "But Santa, the children love you," I said. "Oh, I know they love me, and they love the gifts I bring them," Santa said, "but the
children of today seem to have somehow missed out on the true spirit of Christmas. It's not their fault. It's just that the adults, many of them not
having been taught themselves, have forgotten to teach the children." "Teach them what?" I asked. Santa's kind old face became soft, more gentle. His eyes began to shine with something more than tears. He spoke softly. "Teach
the children the true meaning of Christmas. Teach them that the part of Christmas we can see, hear, and touch is much more than meets the eye. Teach them the symbolism behind the customs and traditions of Christmas which we now observe. Teach them what it is they truly represent." Santa reached into his bag and pulled out a tiny Christmas tree and set it on my mantle.
"Teach them about the Christmas tree. Green is the second color of Christmas. The stately evergreen, with its unchanging color, represents the hope of eternal life in Jesus. Its needles point heavenward as a reminder that mankind's thoughts should turn heavenward as well."
Santa reached into his bag again and pulled out a shiny star and placed it at the top of the small tree. "The star was the heavenly sign of promise. God promised a Savior for the world and the star was the sign of the fulfillment of that promise on the night that Jesus Christ was born. Teach the children that God always fulfills His promises, and that wise men still seek Him." "Red," said Santa, "is the first color of Christmas." "He pulled forth a red ornament for the tiny tree. Red is deep, intense, vivid. It is the color of the life-giving blood that flows through our veins. It is the symbol of God's greatest gift. Teach the children that Christ gave his life and shed his
blood for them that they might have eternal life. When they see the color red, it should remind them of that most wonderful gift."
Santa found a silver bell in his pack and placed it on the tree. "Just as lost sheep are guided to safety by the sound of the bell, it continues to
ring today for all to be guided to the fold. Teach the children to follow the true Shepherd, who gave His life for the sheep." Santa placed a candle on the mantle and lit it. The soft glow from its one
tiny flame brightened the room. "The glow of the candle represents how people can show their thanks for the gift of God's son that Christmas Eve long ago. Teach the children to follow in Christ's footsteps...to go about doing good.
Teach them to let their light shine before people that all may see it and glorify God. This is what's symbolized when the twinkle lights shine on the
tree like hundreds of bright shining lights, each of them representing one of God's precious children's light shining for all to see."
Again Santa reached into his bag and this time he brought forth a tiny red and white striped cane. As he hung it on the tree he spoke softly. "The candy cane is a stick of hard white candy. White to symbolize the virgin birth and sinless nature of Jesus, and hard to symbolize the Solid Rock, the foundation of the church, and the firmness of God's promises. The candy cane form's a
"J" to represent the precious name of Jesus, who came to earth. It also represents the Good Shepherd's crook, which He uses to reach down into all ditches of the world to lift out the
fallen lambs who, like all sheep, have gone astray. The original candy cane had three small red stripes, which are the stripes of the scourging Jesus received by which we are healed, and a large red stripe that represents the shed blood of Jesus, so that we can have the promise of eternal life.
Teach these things to the children."
Santa brought out a beautiful wreath made of fresh, fragrant greenery tied with a bright red bow. "The bow reminds us of the bond of perfection, which is love. The wreath embodies all the good things about Christmas for those
with eyes to see and hearts to understand. It contains the colors of red and green and the heaven-turned needles of the evergreen. The bow tells the story of good will towards all and its color reminds us of Christ's sacrifice. Even its very shape is symbolic, representing eternity and the eternal nature of Christ's love. It is a circle, without beginning and without end. These are
the things you must teach the children."
I asked, "But where does that leave you Santa?"
The tears gone now from his eyes, a smile broke over Santa's face. "Why bless you, my dear," he laughed, "I'm only a symbol myself. I represent the spirit of family fun and the joy of giving and receiving. If the children are taught these other things, there is no danger that I'll ever be forgotten."
"I think I'm beginning to understand."
"That's why I came," said Santa. "You're an adult. If you don't teach the children these things, then who will?"
Santa brought out a beautiful wreath made of fresh, fragrant greenery tied with a bright red bow. "The bow reminds us of the bond of perfection, which is love. The wreath embodies all the good things about Christmas for those
with eyes to see and hearts to understand. It contains the colors of red and green and the heaven-turned needles of the evergreen. The bow tells the story of good will towards all and its color reminds us of Christ's sacrifice. Even its very shape is symbolic, representing eternity and the eternal nature of Christ's love. It is a circle, without beginning and without end. These are
the things you must teach the children."
I asked, "But where does that leave you Santa?"
The tears gone now from his eyes, a smile broke over Santa's face. "Why bless you, my dear," he laughed, "I'm only a symbol myself. I represent the spirit of family fun and the joy of giving and receiving. If the children are taught these other things, there is no danger that I'll ever be forgotten."
"I think I'm beginning to understand."
"That's why I came," said Santa. "You're an adult. If you don't teach the children these things, then who will?"
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Thankyou for that post cactusj.
I have heard a different version of the history behind a tree and santa.
Does anyone have another version of the history?
James
I have heard a different version of the history behind a tree and santa.
Does anyone have another version of the history?
James
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newlite
Watermelon and Sunsets. Proof GOD loves us!
tree - looks pretty and easy way to burn down cheep house for insurence money...
santa - who doesnt like free things...???
i like christmas trees. i love the smell of wood. pine. its great in the morning. plus my house smells bad so at least for a week it smells fresh...and the lights are pretty.
Garfield By Jim Davis
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That's exactly the way I feel about my beautifully decorated Buddha! He makes the place so festive with all his lights and the smell of the incense I burn in front of him. It fills me with Christmas spirit to make Buddha the focal point of my home for the week leading up to Christmas. Other people would say it is wrong to celebrate Christmas by practicing Buddhism and honoring Buddha by making him the centerpiece of all my festivities, but really, since I'm not a Buddhist and I'm using the Buddha statue to honor Christ, what difference does it make that it really belongs to a different religion that doesn't even believe in our God? He's so pretty that I just don't care whether God might be offended or not.newlite said:
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Here's the major difference between a Buddha statue and a Christmas Tree. Most people don't associate Christmas trees with paganism. Most people don't see a Christmas tree and think to themselves "hmmm.. a PAGAN lives at that house". No, I think it's more likely that they think, "hmmmmm..the person who lives there celebrates Christmas in some way, shape, or form." Even if a pagan sees my Christmas tree they probably won't think "Wow, that guy's a pagan just like me!"
Whereas with a buddha statue I think you'd be more likely to send the very direct message that you are indeed a Buddhist or at least support buddhism in some way, shape, or form.
Whereas with a buddha statue I think you'd be more likely to send the very direct message that you are indeed a Buddhist or at least support buddhism in some way, shape, or form.
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