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Recent content by jerusalem

  1. J

    Romans 5 and original sin?

    It is written in Hebrews 9:27: ‘It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment’ (NKJ). The New English Bible has it: ‘It is the lot of men to die once, and after death comes judgment.’ – Judgment follows death. The first death is not the final judgment of God for our sins. It...
  2. J

    Our view of the cross ...

    Jdbear – Most of what I am saying is already online. It really isn’t anything new, but it is different to what is generally taught today and could be unnervingly challenging to many who hold to a penal substitution belief of the atonement. That said, my hope is that people will try to actually...
  3. J

    Romans 5 and original sin?

    Just a short reply for now, because its rather late where I am. Man was created with a mortal nature. This came from God, but along with that nature man was given the conditional grace to live forever. This was also the view of early Church fathers, such as Irenaeus, Augustine and Athanasius...
  4. J

    Romans 5 and original sin?

    This is an interesting discussion. I agree that we are not responsible for the sin of Adam, as we read in Scripture, but we are affected by the consequences. In the Genesis account of creation, Adam was able to live forever by reason of the tree of life of which he could eat (Gen.3:22-24)...
  5. J

    Our view of the cross ...

    Not exactly. An alternative reading of 2 Cor.5:21 renders the word for sin, Gk.: hamartian, as sin-offering (given as a marginal reference in modern translations). This dual interpretation is made possible due to the fact that there is ample precedent for such usage in the Greek Septuagint...
  6. J

    Our view of the cross ...

    jdbear - Today, many take this verse (2 Cor.5:21) to mean that Jesus actually became 'sin', when in fact Paul was using the cross as a prime example of how wrong it is to judge others by surface appearance. Please note: Amongst the Corinthians were those who were judging Paul by outward...
  7. J

    Our view of the cross ...

    ‘So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer’ (2 Cor.5:16, NIV). How the world sees us and judges us is different to the way God sees us and judges us. There is a worldly point of view, and there is a godly point of...
  8. J

    'Penal Substitution', anyone?

    “Paul sees Jesus’ death as justifying us,” Hedrick. - I understand that you do not support PS, but I would like to comment on this idea: One of the problems with Penal Substitution is that too many verses are taken out of context and are then presented as “proof&#8221...
  9. J

    The Message

    Bling: "The prodigal son sounded half dead by the time he reaches the Father, do you see that the son has already been punished (the punishment is very much related to his behavior and is an excelent way to see to the son’s punishment for his reckless behavior)? " There are always...
  10. J

    The Message

    "There can be situations in which even a wonderful parent cannot see to the “just” punishment of His children, which is sad for everyone involved (this was this situation repentant man was under in the OT, so Christ solved the problem by going to the cross." - Please explain how you...
  11. J

    In the beginning ...

    On the 'days' of creation: A literal interpretation of Scripture might often seem the most natural to the casual Western reader, but the Hebrew Scriptures make great use of metaphor and poetic expression. Certain words and phrases can often have a much wider meaning in the context of a passage...
  12. J

    'Penal Substitution', anyone?

    Our atonement is achieved for us through our being raised up in Christ, who gave Himself for us that we might know God through Him and the power of the resurrection. His one perfect offering is accepted for us, who are forgiven and follow Him in faith. In Christ, His righteousness avails as a...
  13. J

    'Penal Substitution', anyone?

    Arcoe - post 94 - excellent response! It is the revelation of Scripture that the ‘cup of God’s wrath’ represents God’s judgement upon the incorrigibly wicked who refuse to turn from their evil ways. This cup of His fury is not poured out or given to those who are willing...
  14. J

    The Message

    "Is just punishment a needed deterrent to the criminal and those around the criminal?" - It is needed for those who engage in crime, not for those who repent in Christ. "Is just punishment not a way the parent shows concern for the child’s behavior?" - Yes, when the child shows no sign...
  15. J

    'Penal Substitution', anyone?

    Regarding the "Day of Atonement", Justin Martyr (c150 AD) wrote: "And the two goats which were ordered to be offered during the fast, of which one was sent away as the scape [azazel, goat of departure], and the other sacrificed, were similarly declarative of the two appearances of Christ: the...
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