Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

[BCP1928]

How will it be achieved?

That's what no one can figure out. All over the former Ottoman Empire the Brits and the French carved out nation states--Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan--and gave them to the locals, except for the province of Palestine. In Palestine, the Brits decided instead to create a western-oriented secular state and populate it with European immigrants. The locals have never really gotten over it.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

That's what no one can figure out. All over the former Ottoman Empire the Brits and the French carved out nation states--Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan--and gave them to the locals, except for the province of Palestine. In Palestine, the Brits decided instead to create a western-oriented secular state and populate it with European immigrants. The locals have never really gotten over it.

Simply put, they lack a sense of reality and wish to return to a past that no longer exists.

 

[BCP1928]

Simply put, they lack a sense of reality and wish to return to a past that no longer exists.

A past that was stolen from them.

Sykes–Picot Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

A past that was stolen from them.

Sykes–Picot Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The past is not coming back; both Jews and Palestinians will remain in the land. They must accept reality and find a way to coexist.

 

[BCP1928]

The past is not coming back; both Jews and Palestinians will remain in the land. They must accept reality and find a way to coexist.

Good luck with that, but the first thing we have to do is understand where the Palestinians are coming from with this.

 

[Fantine]

If you are going to quote me - please at least address my post -

Your exposure to news shows has ZERO to do with the plainly stated goals of Hamas to kill the Jews.

Remember, we are talking about Hamas

• Hamas the internationally recognized terrorist organization
• Hamas the group that beat women in public squares
• Hamas who uses children as human shields
• Hamas who executed homosexuals
• Hamas who has the eradication of the Jews in their charter
• Hamas who mutilate babies
• Hamas who kidnapped over 200 people who were doing NOTHING to them, but hey, they were Jews
• Hamas who fired thousands of rockets into civilian markets, schools and hospitals
• Hamas who slaughter children in front of their parents
• Hamas who the world has condemned for their violence
• Hamas who fired on their own citizens trying to get food.
• Hamas the ones who have been offered two state solutions three times - turned them down each time

So you are saying Hamas does a lot of saber rattling without being able to do much about it while Israel systematically eliminates them, financed by the U.S.?
I believe the UN, the World Court, and nations under leadership that is more democratic (small d) than ours before I believe your unreferenced unsubstantiated allegations.

 

[Fantine]

Yes they are:

SMH. They were accused of collaborating with an enemy who had enough resources to destroy their country ten times over--and used enough to kill, maim, starve, demolish, displace, etc.
There should have been a trial. But when your homeland has experienced an apocalypse, how do you hold a trial? What would your solution have been?

 

[Desk trauma]

SMH. They were accused of collaborating with an enemy who had enough resources to destroy their country ten times over--and used enough to kill, maim, starve, demolish, displace, etc.
There should have been a trial. But when your homeland has experienced an apocalypse, how do you hold a trial? What would your solution have been?

@Say it aint so Again, over here, defense of Hamas.

 

[Fantine]

@Say it aint so Again, over here, defense of Hamas.

It is not defending Hamas to discuss the reality that there is not a single resident of Gaza who has not endured the loss of his home, his livelihood, loved ones, his future. Imagine learning that someone who is your countryman, sharing the same ethnicity, the same religious background, had sold out and betrayed you, unleashing a horror that those of us in the West probably can't even look at without crying and averting our eyes.

I can understand and empathize. Here in the United States, we can certainly understand the innocent being brought to trial. It's happened in three very high profile cases in the past week. We can understand powerful people manipulating the truth and the media and deceiving many millions of people. It's happened in three very high profile cases in the past week.

We can understand guilty people going to great lengths to pervert justice. But we can't understand how people who have lost everything--even the courts that could provide justice--might take justice into their own hands?

 

[Nithavela]

SMH. They were accused of collaborating with an enemy who had enough resources to destroy their country ten times over--and used enough to kill, maim, starve, demolish, displace, etc.
There should have been a trial. But when your homeland has experienced an apocalypse, how do you hold a trial? What would your solution have been?

They could have thrown them out of a window like hamas likes to do with homosexuals, but I guess there weren't any high enough buildings left.

 

[Always in His Presence]

So you are saying Hamas does a lot of saber rattling without being able to do much about it while Israel systematically eliminates them, financed by the U.S.?
I believe the UN, the World Court, and nations under leadership that is more democratic (small d) than ours before I believe your unreferenced unsubstantiated allegations.

Why do you keep ignoring:

Remember, we are talking about Hamas

• Hamas the internationally recognized terrorist organization
• Hamas the group that beat women in public squares
• Hamas who uses children as human shields
• Hamas who executed homosexuals
• Hamas who has the eradication of the Jews in their charter
• Hamas who mutilate babies
• Hamas who kidnapped over 200 people who were doing NOTHING to them, but hey, they were Jews
• Hamas who fired thousands of rockets into civilian markets, schools and hospitals
• Hamas who slaughter children in front of their parents
• Hamas who the world has condemned for their violence
• Hamas who fired on their own citizens trying to get food.
• Hamas the ones who have been offered two state solutions three times - turned them down each time

 

[Hazelelponi]

One more time. No one is defending Hamas's actions,

Well someone is, might not be you, but I have seen people agree with Hamas executing the citizenry, as if it's a proper thing for a governing body to do. Apparently in an us vs them they are on the side of terrorists and terrorism as opposed to the normal people who are working towards peace.

So, when you have such full-blown support for Hamas coming from the most unlikely places, (I consider supporting public executions to be full blown support of Hamas actions, for example) it probably behooves you to make your personal position clear - especicially if what your saying seems muddy.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What Hamas is fighting for is irrelevant at this point.

Not irrelevant until they are disarmed and another ruling body in place. If they are simply replaced by Fatah, getting rid of Hamas will have been a worthless endeavor.

But right now they are the ones with the guns, so what they are fighting for is very relevant.

Armed and still warring with Israel and nothing good will occur, because you can't rebuild when the war is still going on.

So long as major factions are doing things like tearing up water lines to use the material to make rockets and rocket launchers, you can't fix the water infrastructure because all the materials being shipped in are just used as implements in the war effort (it continues when we are talking about all the things you need for desalinization water plants and the electric grid needed)

We have to be able to have peace in order to rebuild because you have to not only rebuild all this - but better - but also be able to protect it once it's in place

Therefore, factions like Hamas are indeed relevant until they are disarmed, and the worst of them jailed, so long as they are armed they are a danger and they will stop the rebuilding efforts and any ability thereof.

The occupation of the Palestinian territories and unjust treatment of Palestinians provided a fertile environment for the rise of an Islamic terrorist group and its ability to recruit and gain support among a largely Muslim population.

First of all, the Jews having a state is not occupation - so we will end this here.

The Jews have a right to self rule. Israel exists, it's not "occupied Palestine"., it's the nation of Israel next to what people are calling Palestine. Palestine is not "occupied" because Israel exists.

When people recognize the nation state of Israel we can talk. It's a legitimate state. When we recognize the state of Israel, we can move forward with the infrastructure of Palestine.

 

[Nithavela]

First of all, the Jews having a state is not occupation - so we will end this here.

The Jews have a right to self rule. Israel exists, it's not "occupied Palestine"., it's the nation of Israel next to what people are calling Palestine.

It's a bit more complicated than that. While on paper, there exists Israel, and next to those are the Gaza strip and the west bank, which are Palestine, in reality a lot of the west bank is settled by israeli settlers, a process that has been going on for decades and is actively supported by the israeli government. The west bank looks more like a swiss cheese than a proper country.

It would be like US farmers starting to settle and farm on mexican land beyond the southern US border. In any real two state solution, those farms would have to be removed so that proper borders could be established.

 

[Desk trauma]

It is not defending Hamas to discuss the reality that there is not a single resident of Gaza

Defending their execution of rivals is very much defending them. As I said, they have been doing this since they were consolidating power after the election in 06. This isn’t a product of social break down due to the war, its standard operating procedure.

 

[lismore]

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Wow - - - - - - - - #christianity #jesus #christian #bible #God #faith #jesuschrist #nigeria #christ #love #bibleverse #prayer #gospel #holyspirit #godisgood #pray #biblestudy #scripture #hope...

www.facebook.com

In this video a Nigerian Pastor conducting a mass burial of Christians killed by Islamists in the ongoing genocide of Christians in Nigeria is asking why the Christian world is silent about the horrific abuse his people are suffering.

it does seem that many Christians are vociferous against Israel and in favour of Palestine, but silent about the murder of our brothers and sisters in Nigeria.

Israel/Hamas is a war against terrorists, Nigeria is a genocide of Christians by Muslims. Do you care? Please care.

God Bless All

 

[JosephZ]

The Jews have a right to self rule. Israel exists, it's not "occupied Palestine"., it's the nation of Israel next to what people are calling Palestine. Palestine is not "occupied" because Israel exists.

The occupation of the Palestinian territories refers to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, based on the pre-1967 borders. The US State Department, the International Court of Justice, the United Nations Security Council, and Israel’s Supreme Court all recognize these areas as being occupied.

Not irrelevant until they are disarmed and another ruling body in place. If they are simply replaced by Fatah, getting rid of Hamas will have been a worthless endeavor. But right now they are the ones with the guns, so what they are fighting for is very relevant. ... Therefore, factions like Hamas are indeed relevant until they are disarmed, and the worst of them jailed, so long as they are armed they are a danger and they will stop the rebuilding efforts and any ability thereof.

Of course Hamas is relevant. This terrorist group has caused immense suffering to Israelis and the people of Gaza for decades. What I said was what Hamas is fighting for is irrelevant at this point, because decades of injustices perpetrated by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people are the root cause of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

It's [Israel is] a legitimate state.

On this, we agree. Unfortunately, it's unlikely Hamas ever will.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Good luck with that, but the first thing we have to do is understand where the Palestinians are coming from with this.

We understand very well where they come from. They live in an alternative reality and think rest of us should feed their imaginary world which no longer exist. In this situation, engaging in a rational discussion with them is impossible.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

SMH. They were accused of collaborating with an enemy who had enough resources to destroy their country ten times over--and used enough to kill, maim, starve, demolish, displace, etc.
There should have been a trial. But when your homeland has experienced an apocalypse, how do you hold a trial? What would your solution have been?

Your empathy for innocent people, as previously observed on this forum, appears inconsistent. You seem to suggest that the loss of innocent lives is subjective; when such losses occur during two years war, they are labelled genocide, but when Hamas kill their own citizen, you offer justification for their actions.

 

[Nithavela]

Your empathy for innocent people, as previously observed on this forum, appears inconsistent. You seem to suggest that the loss of innocent lives is subjective; when such losses occur during two years war, they are labelled genocide, but when Hamas kill their own citizen, you offer justification for their actions.

Not many people in the west care about this. Trump said it's fine. The people protesting for palestine haven't found cause to protest this. It's not worth as much time on the news as a single israeli hostage. I doubt one can even find the names of the killed, and I think that is at least partially because nobody cares to look.

It's just business as usual. Meh.