Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

[BCP1928]

I think the defenders of the show are doing some deflection (evidenced by some posts in the first few pages of this thread)...

Whenever this subject seems to come up, the pattern is:
- Conservative backlash to a show, claiming it's advancing an agenda (it's about a 50/50 in terms of whether or not it really is, the conservatives didn't do themselves any favors by crying wolf so much)
- Progressives defend by chalking it up to "what's so bad about there being a gay character?, that's just making it match societal representation"


Basically, attempting to pretend the reason for some people objecting to it is non-existent.



If a well-known conservative made a show for ages 10-14 and the characters were:
- A de-transitioner (who was portrayed as being much happier now)

I would imagine that would be approved of. By showing that it is possible to "de-transition" it makes transitioning in the first place seem safer.

- A Muslim-to-Christian convert (who talks about how they have much more freedom after they got away from their family's oppressive religion)

That would certainly teach kids to avoid oppressive religion.

- A Cuban refugee who regularly talks about the failures of collectivism and why it's important to be skeptical of government

Sounds like a good role model for young kids--warns them off authoritarian government early.

...and they rode around in a van solving mysteries (but half the time, they were delving into all that other stuff). Would progressives buy the defense of "what? This is just a show about solving mysteries like Scooby Doo...no different. People like the characters do exist in society, so we just wanted to make the characters representative of people that exist"

It doesn't even have to be that "on the nose" to stir up ire for that matter.

Is ‘VeggieTales’ Racist? A College Project Suggests The Show is “Dangerous” for Children

“When kids see the good white character triumph over the bad person of color they are taught that white is right and minorities are the source of evil.”

decider.com

The people who dismiss "indoctrination concerns" about shows like the one in question, are some of the same folks who thought that "Veggie Tales" was problematic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Lol, MA17?

1. That's not even a real rating. The top maturity ratings (at least that Netflix shows on its platform) are NC-17 for movies and TV-MA for shows.

2. Both of those ratings are only applied for explicit sex, graphic on-screen violence, or crude language. Think Game of Thrones. This show, it could be argued, might be better suited to a TV-PG rating, but that's really the most that would be warranted.

http://www.tvguidelines.org/resources/TheRatings.pdf

MA 17 might be a gaming rating, I recall seeing it. My youngest left home in 2008 so it's been a minute and we never watched TV very much.

I'm suggesting any R ratings where you have to be an adult to watch it.

The main character ran away from home because they didn't like their parents because they were trans.

Firstly, that theme isn't for underage children.

Transgender people are given puberty blockers and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs in order to change their gender (their sex)

It's a lifetime of pain tied to doctors and there's little by way of normalcy in their future because of it.

That entire theme is for adults, not children. It's not something children should be exposed to.

You don't need graphic sex for the theme to be adult. Being transgender isn't some cute little proposition for children to consider. The very theme is beyond the mind of a child.

 

[Servus]

Lol, MA17?

1. That's not even a real rating. The top maturity ratings (at least that Netflix shows on its platform) are NC-17 for movies and TV-MA for shows.

2. Both of those ratings are only applied for explicit sex, graphic on-screen violence, or [excessive] crude language (there's a limit on the number of f-bombs you can drop before you get bumped to MA). Think Game of Thrones. This show, it could be argued, might be better suited to a TV-PG rating, but that's really the most that would be warranted.

http://www.tvguidelines.org/resources/TheRatings.pdf

 

[BCP1928]

MA 17 might be a gaming rating, I recall seeing it. My youngest left home in 2008 so it's been a minute and we never watched TV very much.

I'm suggesting any R ratings where you have to be an adult to watch it.

The main character ran away from home because they didn't like their parents because they were trans.

Firstly, that theme isn't for underage children.

Transgender people are given puberty blockers and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs in order to change their gender.

It's a lifetime of pain tied to doctors and there's little by way of normalcy in their future because of it.

That entire theme is for adults, not children.

Most transgender people do not undergo drug therapy or surgery. It seems a good idea to include transgender themes in childrens shows so they don't grow up believing lies like that.

 

[durangodawood]

No, there is a distinction to be made...

A good example I would point to would be the difference between Father Dowling Mysteries vs. 7th Heaven

While both shows involved members of the Christian clergy as their main characters, the former didn't evangelize and his clerical role was a thematic element used as a means to explain how he was able to get certain elevated access in order to solve crimes, as opposed to the latter, which directly injected Christian scriptural themes into the dialog and storytelling.

Why should we expect a clergy member to avoid Christian themes as they go about activities involving human motivations? The absence would seem conspicuous to me.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

This isn't a video game.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The continuing sexualization of children is what's going on. Those who gloss over the situation eithr don't know or don't care or they support it. They dismiss ...

Since you've proffered no evidence, of course I will dismiss your claims.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The main character ran away from home because they didn't like their parents because they were trans.

Firstly, that theme isn't for underage children.

Plenty of kids' movies about (much younger, even - the main character in this show is 17) children running away from home because they disagree with their parents on something. I believe a (non-comprehensive) list was posted earlier in the thread.

Furthermore, most of the ratings guidelines don't cover themes - in fact, TV-PG is the only rating that specifically mentions themes rather than specific categories of content (see the ratings explanation document I linked in my previous post). The reality is that there really aren't a lot of themes that are universally unsuitable for children. Suitability is going to depend on the individual child, their maturity level, and their life circumstances. That's where the "PG" comes in - it stands for Parental Guidance. In other words, it's intended for parents to review the material and determine whether or not the content is suitable for their child and their household. What you believe is unsuitable for your children, another parent may deem perfectly acceptable, or even something that might help their child deal with an experience that they've had.

Transgender people are given puberty blockers and/or gotten ready for a lifetime of surgeries and drugs in order to change their gender (their sex)

Not always. About 0.1% of children nationwide received puberty blockers or hormones between 2018 and 2022. Considering that somewhere between 2 and 5% of minors either identify as transgender or have thought that they might be trans (i.e. the potential pool for puberty blockers and hormones), that's really not a lot - about 2-5% of the potential pool of transgender children. Furthermore, puberty blockers have been shown to be safe and reversible - they're also used to treat conditions like precocious puberty (early-onset puberty) in cisgender patients.

You don't need graphic sex for the theme to be adult. Being transgender isn't some cute little proposition for children to consider. The very theme is beyond the mind of a child.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. If you don't want your kids watching shows with transgender characters or about being transgender, then don't let them. But nothing entitles you to dictate what other parents allow their children to watch.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why should we expect a clergy member to avoid Christian themes as they go about activities involving human motivations? The absence would seem conspicuous to me.

I'm not saying they should be expected to avoid it...

I'm saying that in the context of parents feeling like entertainment media is trying to undermine their values --
Non-Christian parents (who maybe want to raise their kids in some other religion, or non-religion) shouldn't be labelled as unreasonable or hypocritical by being okay with their kids seeing Father Dowling's mysteries, but not a show that is overtly attempting to make proselytizing efforts. (Despite both having characters that are in the Christian clergy)

Nor would it be fair to label their objection to the latter as some petty aversion to a Christian merely be present on the show.


There are numerous non-straight characters in the show "Only murderers in the Building". I can't say I've ever encountered anyone suggesting that show is trying to indoctrinate anyone or push an agenda, it seems to be pretty well liked by everyone I've talked to on both sides of the fence. But that's because those themes aren't a focal point.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That doesn't even make any sense. Glossing over means to deliberately treat a problem as if it were unimportant or insignificant. That's the opposite of what I'm doing.

What I meant is that you're glossing over the problems in your argument; problems that have been pointed out several times now and that you've failed to address.

There are numerous non-straight characters in the show "Only murderers in the Building". I can't say I've ever encountered anyone suggesting that show is trying to indoctrinate anyone or push an agenda, it seems to be pretty well liked by everyone I've talked to on both sides of the fence. But that's because those themes aren't a focal point.

I don't know about that show specifically, but it is not uncommon at all to find folks claiming "indoctrination" or "gay agenda" at the mere presence of lgbtq characters. I'm sure if somebody felt inclined to mine the archives here, they'd find no shortage of threads on the subject. It may have waned in recent years, but that's only because people have gotten used to it. It was very much a thing.

More broadly, lots of kids programming is deliberately preachy. That's generally what separates the better stuff from the flashy vacuousness that is so much of the rest of it. Sesame Street has been doing this for over 50 years and has been catching flak for it since the very beginning. For those who didn't click the link - it's a story from 1970 about a Mississippi state commission voting to not show Sesame Street on its state-owned tv because the state "was not yet ready" for a show with such a racially integrated cast.

 

[Servus]

What I meant is that you're glossing over the problems in your argument; problems that have been pointed out several times now and that you've failed to address.

I pretty much always address posts that are addressed to me. I don't often chime in on posts not addressed to me.

 

[Servus]

Since you've proffered no evidence, of course I will dismiss your claims.

I'm spelling out why Musk and others are canceling their Netflix subscription.

 

[Yttrium]

Cancel Netflix when Ranma 1/2 Season 2 is about to start? Madness!

Oh, wait, that's another show about a trans teenager.

Heh heh. I guess I know which side I'm on this time around, Elon.

 

[rambot]

I think the defenders of the show are doing some deflection (evidenced by some posts in the first few pages of this thread)...

Whenever this subject seems to come up, the pattern is:
- Conservative backlash to a show, claiming it's advancing an agenda (it's about a 50/50 in terms of whether or not it really is, the conservatives didn't do themselves any favors by crying wolf so much)
- Progressives defend by chalking it up to "what's so bad about there being a gay character?, that's just making it match societal representation

Well, if the mere existence of a character in a show is considered "indoctrination", yes, I do think that's a reaction. These people exist in the world and what would be the point of them NEVER appearing in any show? That wouldn't represent reality and could easily be an example of "repression".

To be upset because a person is IN the show?
How does that seem reasonable?


All this being said, has anyone in this thread, a supporter OR detractor ever watched the show or are we all just talking out of our poopshoot anyways.

 

[7thKeeper]

Cancel Netflix when Ranma 1/2 Season 2 is about to start? Madness!

Oh, wait, that's another show about a trans teenager.

Heh heh. I guess I know which side I'm on this time around, Elon.

Ranma ½ is my childhood. I owed the entire manga collection at one point. I was so happy to see the new anime become a thing. I liked the old TV series too, but lots of filler that was of various quality and the new one is sticking close to the source. I just wish they continue it long enough to introduce my favourite non main cast character, Pantyhose Tarou.

 

[durangodawood]

....There are numerous non-straight characters in the show "Only murderers in the Building". I can't say I've ever encountered anyone suggesting that show is trying to indoctrinate anyone or push an agenda, it seems to be pretty well liked by everyone I've talked to on both sides of the fence. But that's because those themes aren't a focal point.

So what if they did present a perspective thats actually about being gay? Thats the kind of thing that art generally is supposed to be doing: showing how the world looks from perspectives other than your own. And I enjoy seeing Christian perspectives represented on TV, for example, especially more traditional ones. If it veers into the type of Christianity I consider creepy, I watch something else.

 

[MotoToTheMax]

So what if they did present a perspective thats actually about being gay? Thats the kind of thing that art generally is supposed to be doing: showing how the world looks from perspectives other than your own. And I enjoy seeing Christian perspectives represented on TV, for example, especially more traditional ones. If it veers into the type of Christianity I consider creepy, I watch something else.

For a good time, you should watch the movie "Old Fashioned" and just imagine it as a quasi-horror film at the same time. Each character is a little over the top as stereotypes but it's trying to be serious. It's hilarious.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well, if the mere existence of a character in a show is considered "indoctrination", yes, I do think that's a reaction. These people exist in the world and what would be the point of them NEVER appearing in any show? That wouldn't represent reality and could easily be an example of "repression".

To be upset because a person is IN the show?
How does that seem reasonable?


All this being said, has anyone in this thread, a supporter OR detractor ever watched the show or are we all just talking out of our poopshoot anyways.

I quoted the maker of the show, and based on their own words, this show in particular was more than just having a character.

Steele describes this as not just being simple representation, describing it as “meant to be in the structure and the bones of the show.”


And in another part of the interview:

TD: The original was supposed to be more of an adult cartoon, and I know it still has a curse word and references to porn in it. And I know that you were asked to take some of that out to make it more youth friendly. So I guess my question is: what was that decision like when you were making the Netflix show? Did you always want it to be more friendly for kids? Or were you originally thinking about making it adult-oriented like your original project?

HS: No, funnily enough the adult comedy was added to it. I didn’t pitch it as adult, and then Cartoon Hangover’s brand at the time was trying to make more adult cartoons, and then halfway through production they changed their mind because I think it demonetized their videos, and that was their whole business model. So it used to be a lot worse. There was some proper bad stuff in there.

So we took out what we could and we left in the stuff we did, and we still think it’s funny. And then the comic was more YA, I wouldn’t say adult, I guess more teen. It kind of set the tone of the show. No, I wanted it to be kind of kid friendly but see what we could get away with.


So in this case, it's not merely that a gay character was in the show... it sounds like activism was the point.

Given the demographic makeup of the characters, they swung the pendulum in the other direction when it comes to societally proportional representation.

As I noted from the synopsis of the show earlier. 80% of the main characters non-cis/non-straight...that doesn't represent demographic reality either.

I don't know if you'd even encounter those kinds of ratios at a Sam Smith concert.

 

[RileyG]

• Elon Musk urged his followers to cancel Netflix for the "health of your kids" on Wednesday.
• Musk's posts come amid criticism by some online of a Netflix animated show featuring a teenage protagonist who is trans.
• It's unclear whether a significant number of Netflix users have canceled.

Elon Musk had a message for his social-media followers on Wednesday morning:

"Cancel Netflix for the health of your kids."

Elon Musk says he canceled his Netflix account — and urges his followers to as well

Elon Musk's posts come amid some online criticism of the Netflix animated show, "Dead End: Paranormal Park," and its creator.

www.businessinsider.com

Good for him. My family likes Netflix too much.

 

[RileyG]

For a good time, you should watch the movie "Old Fashioned" and just imagine it as a quasi-horror film at the same time. Each character is a little over the top as stereotypes but it's trying to be serious. It's hilarious.

Cool! Will have to look into it!