Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire

[Servus]

a. murder rates have declined.
b. school shootings are still a problem, especially because of the setting.

I fail to see the contradiction. These are both true.

School shootings? Is this thread about a school shooting? There's shootings taking place everywhere from churches to nightclubs. The left sees it as a huge problem of epidemic proportions which is why they're rallying for gun control. While at the same time insisting there isn't actually a problem according to the data. That's a clear contradiction.

 

[RileyG]

But the bad stuff still does exist. For example why is so much merchandise in stores locked up when it never was before? There's whole isles where everything is behind locked glass doors or in cages. I literally can't even buy underwear in the middle of the day, unless I find someone with a key.

Not to go off topic, but you are spot on!

I currently work in retail and many items have protective gear on them including nearly all electronics, legos, beauty products, alcohol, clothing, and yes underwear.

Despite that, theft still occurs on a very regular basis.

They get caught…sometimes.

Just my two cents….

Now….

 

[7thKeeper]

When the left took God out of the schools.

So if we go back to this silly argument... This shooting wouldn't have happened if we'd put prayer back in churches?

 

[Larniavc]

Is it? I think England is going through a bit of it right now.

It is.

Yeah, those racists having their most recent rally are beyond the pale.

 

[Larniavc]

It feels like The majority of these kinds of mass shootings have a mental health componant to them. Some are pu t e mental health issues and some are political/mental health combinations.

All of them have a gun component.

 

[Servus]

Not to go off topic, but you are spot on!

I currently work in retail and many items have protective gear on them including nearly all electronics, legos, beauty products, alcohol, clothing, and yes underwear.

Despite that, theft still occurs on a very regular basis.

They get caught…sometimes.

Just my two cents….

Now….

But according to the data it's not a problem

 

[rjs330]

All of them have a gun component.

Yeah and thats why I support putting the seriously mentally ill in a hospital where they cant get a gun. Aside from that, make it illegal for them to have a gun. That should solve most of this.

 

[rjs330]

It is.

Yeah, those racists having their most recent rally are beyond the pale.

Who knew England was such a racist country.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

So if we go back to this silly argument... This shooting wouldn't have happened if we'd put prayer back in churches?

"Prayer back in churches"? Good bye.

 

[Larniavc]

Who knew England was such a racist country.

I know. I sickens and saddens me. I hope we can skew politically as far away from the right wing parties we have to put up with as we can.

 

[JosephZ]

School shootings? Is this thread about a school shooting? There's shootings taking place everywhere from churches to nightclubs. The left sees it as a huge problem of epidemic proportions which is why they're rallying for gun control. While at the same time insisting there isn't actually a problem according to the data. That's a clear contradiction.

Two things can be true at the same time.

But according to the data it's not a problem

Data shows mass shootings are a serious problem in the United States.

 

[Servus]

Two things can be true at the same time.

Data shows mass shootings are a serious problem in the United States.

Sure, but he was talking about mass theft.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Yeah and thats why I support putting the seriously mentally ill in a hospital where they cant get a gun. Aside from that, make it illegal for them to have a gun. That should solve most of this.

We did away with state mental institutions under Regan. Those people now live under bridges. There is not currently infrastructure to do what you are suggesting even if we could identify them, and often we can't until it is too late.

 

[JosephZ]

Yeah and thats why I support putting the seriously mentally ill in a hospital where they cant get a gun. Aside from that, make it illegal for them to have a gun. That should solve most of this.

Putting those who are mentally ill in a hospital or making it illegal for them to have a gun wouldn't solve most of the problem.

A look into the traits of a mass shooter

A Columbia University research study found that of the 1,800 mass murders, only 8% of all mass shooters were diagnosed with a severe mental illness, such as schizophrenia or severe bipolar disorder.

Mass murderers with psychotic illness are much less likely to use firearms, much more likely to use other methods," Girgis said.

His research, however, did find a larger percentage of mass shooters -- 25% -- suffered from less severe mental illnesses like depression and anxiety.

But that closely mirrors the general population.

Mass Shootings’ Relationship to Mental Illness

If all violence in the US that is due to mental disorders could be eliminated, 95% to 97% of violent behavior would remain.

There is agreement that serious mental illness does contribute to a subset of mass shootings, with a commonly referenced estimate of 20%, or 1 in 5 mass shootings. Although improving the diagnosis and treatment of mental illnesses should always be part of the conversation, there is a paucity of information about the 80% of mass shootings that are not a direct result of a mental illness. Notably, a joint consensus of 60 mental health organizations in June 2022, including the American Psychiatric Association, stated:

“Attempts to connect mental illness to mass shootings are a distraction that inflicts enormous damage by taking attention from solutions that could actually prevent such events. This perpetuates a false narrative that encourages stigmatization of and discrimination against the millions of Americans living with mental health conditions.”


While mental illness is a problem that needs to be addressed and a universal red flag law is needed, a bigger problem is assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines, which are present in well over half of the mass shootings that take place. Semi-automatic handguns and rifles with high-capacity magazines are also often linked to gang-related shootings.

“A Killing Machine”: Half of All Mass Shooters Used High-Capacity Magazines

Magazines holding more than 10 rounds were used in 31 of the 62 mass shootings we investigated.

Outlawing high-capacity magazines won’t prevent gun crimes from happening, Chipman notes, but might well reduce the carnage: “Maybe 3 kids get killed instead of 20.”

High-capacity magazines also play a role in the daily gun deaths plaguing US cities from LA to Chicago to Baltimore. “A lot of these folks who are driving in their cars and shooting out the window, they’re shooting whatever is in their magazine,” Chipman says. “So if it’s only 10 rounds instead of 20, maybe the kid halfway down the block doesn’t get hit with round 18.”



How often are LCMs used in high-fatality mass shootings? At minimum, 64% of high-fatality mass shootings perpetrated between 1990 and 2017 involved LCMs.

Are more people killed when LCMs are used? Yes, and the difference in our data set is substantial and statistically significant (11.8 vs 7.3). We should add that our results likely underestimate the difference because we have a truncated sample (we only examined incidents with at least 6 victim fatalities), compounded by the fact that the number of homicide incidents fell as the number of victims increased.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2019.305311

 

[rjs330]

We did away with state mental institutions under Regan. Those people now live under bridges. There is not currently infrastructure to do what you are suggesting even if we could identify them, and often we can't until it is too late.

Yeah, and that was a mistake. We should have kept thise facilities and made them better instead. We would be having a lot fewer issues today.

But just because we dont have it now, doesn't mean we can't develop them.

 

[rjs330]

I know. I sickens and saddens me. I hope we can skew politically as far away from the right wing parties we have to put up with as we can.

Well at least you're trying by making it hard for people to speak out. Just kicking in their doors and arresting them will do the trick. Hey, I thought America was the gestapo country. I guess we are more alike than I realized.

 

[Larniavc]

Well at least you're trying by making it hard for people to speak out. Just kicking in their doors and arresting them will do the trick. Hey, I thought America was the gestapo country. I guess we are more alike than I realized.

None of the right wingers preaching hate at the demonstration were arrested. Neither on stage or at home; what are you on about?

 

[Larniavc]

Hey, I thought America was the gestapo country. I guess we are more alike than I realized.

To be fair your American doors get kicked in the people inside get shot and killed.

So swings and roundabouts.

 

[Larniavc]

Outlawing high-capacity magazines won’t prevent gun crimes from happening, Chipman notes, but might well reduce the carnage: “Maybe 3 kids get killed instead of 20.”

That’s clearly not enough of a saving to curtail someone’s gun hobby.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I know. I sickens and saddens me. I hope we can skew politically as far away from the right wing parties we have to put up with as we can.

Yeah. England has fallen to Muslim extremists...again. Historically, a crusade was the reaponse to push the Muslim invasion back. But I dont think the world could stomach it. Therefore, London is officially captured Muslim territory.