Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2)

[Gene2memE]

Parts of the current administration were itching to drone strike migrant boats in the first Trump administration.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-trump-aide-stephen-miller-pushed-blowing-up-migrant-boat-with-a-drone/

 

[Chesterton]

The fact is, the US has gotten pretty loose about attacking various folk since the 1980s.

Everyone has gotten pretty loose about attacking others since the 1940's. Korea and Vietnam were "police actions". Obama assassinated U.S. citizens. It's really old fashioned to officially declare war before you start shooting.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Venezuelan fighter jets flew over U.S. Navy ship in "show of force"​

Two armed Venezuelan F-16 fighter jets flew over the USS Jason Dunham on Thursday, according to multiple Defense Department officials who described the action as a "show of force."

On Tuesday, the U.S. military said it struck a boat that it alleged was carrying drugs from Venezuela, and claimed it had killed 11 people on board who it accused of belonging to the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, according to Mr. Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

 

[DaisyDay]

How is this not murder in international waters?

 

[Desk trauma]

How is this not murder in international waters?

When the president does it it’s not illegal.

 

[DaisyDay]

When the president does it it’s not illegal.

I forgot. The current USSC seems to concur, to the detriment of our country.

 

[Desk trauma]

I forgot. The current USSC seems to concur, to the detriment of our country.

Who knew Nixon was right all along.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I forgot. The current USSC seems to concur, to the detriment of our country.

The United States may not be the only entity with jurisdiction over the case. Not that anything is likely to happen fast.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

How is this not murder in international waters?

I am curious, is making money by bringing poisons into a country that kills thousands not murder? What exactly is your definition of 'murder?'

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I forgot. The current USSC seems to concur, to the detriment of our country.

Poor poor drug cartels.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I am curious, is making money by bringing poisons into a country that kills thousands not murder? What exactly is your definition of 'murder?'

Murder requires intent. Their intent is to make money, not to kill Americans or an attack to take over the United States.

The 'Ketamine Queen' who sold ketamine to Matthew Perry is not being charged with murder.

Neither was Perry's personal assistant who literally injected the fatal doses of ketamine.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Murder requires intent. Their intent is to make money, not to kill Americans or an attack to take over the United States.

The 'Ketamine Queen' who sold ketamine to Matthew Perry is not being charged with murder.

Neither was Perry's personal assistant who literally injected the fatal doses of ketamine.

Are the military personnel who fired the weapons 'murders' seeing how their intent was to kill narco terrorists to save countless lives from the poison they were trying to sell? If a father intended to kill a man who broke into his home to rape and kill his daughter a murderer? If a man is given the death penalty, is it the judge, the executioner, or both the murderer?

 

[Chesterton]

When the president does it it’s not illegal.

Hey, at least he didn't murder U.S. citizens as Obama did.

 

[That Guy 11200]

I am curious, is making money by bringing poisons into a country that kills thousands not murder? What exactly is your definition of 'murder?'

Would that also apply to people who spread deadly diseases, after refusing to take reasonable measures to reduce the spread?

Would it apply to people who release deadly chemicals into waterways or into the air?

Would it apply to people who sell weapons?

Indeed, would it apply to anything the political right does that harms people?

 

[Desk trauma]

The United States may not be the only entity with jurisdiction over the case. Not that anything is likely to happen fast.

…or at all.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Are the military personnel who fired the weapons 'murders'

Intent is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition.

 

[wing2000]

Are the military personnel who fired the weapons 'murders' seeing how their intent was to kill narco terrorists to save countless lives from the poison they were trying to sell?

...the problem is not the intent of the military personnel. I suppose one could argue they were following an illegal order...but that's a separate argument.

The fact is, their superiors (Hegseth, presumably with Trump's approval), ordered the execution of 11 people without providing any opportunity for them to:
a) Surrender
b) Defend themselves in court

[Normally, the Coast Guard, or the US Navy operating under Coast Guard direciton, would interdict such a vessel.]

At this point, we can't even assume all 11 invididuals were "narco terrorists". It's highly unlikely they would choose to many a 40' boat with 11 operators....

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Would that also apply to people who spread deadly diseases, after refusing to take reasonable measures to reduce the spread?

Would it apply to people who release deadly chemicals into waterways or into the air?

Would it apply to people who sell weapons?

Indeed, would it apply to anything the political right does that harms people?

I define 'murder' as taking a human life without cause or authority. All I am saying is that intentionally killing is not enough to define murder. Otherwise every judge who gave the death sentence would be a murderer.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Hey, at least he didn't murder U.S. citizens as Obama did.

Nope, he did that at the start of his first term, he killed an 8 year old girl who was a US citizen during a strike in Yemen.

 

[Sif]

I wonder if the strike is in relation to drug cartels and some other transnational criminal organization being declared Foreign Terrorist Organizations by the US State Department. I know two Ecuadoran gangs have recently been added to the list (Los Lobos and Choneros).

This is the State Department's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations, if anyone is interested.