American boys have become less supportive of gender equality (i.e. men and women should receive equal job opportunities and pay)

[essentialsaltes]

American boys have become less supportive of gender equality​

A survey of 8th and 10th graders shows a sharp drop in the percent of boys who believe that women should have the same opportunities as men​

The long-running Monitoring the Future study has been surveying 8th and 10th graders since 1991, and shows a sharp drop in the proportion of 8th and 10th graders that believe in gender equality in the last five years.

In 2018, 84% of 8th and 10th grade boys agreed that women should have the same job opportunities as men. But in the last five years, the number dropped to 72%. The proportion of boys who completely agreed (as opposed to “mostly agree”) saw an even steeper drop, from 63% to 45%.

The share of boys agreeing that women deserve equal pay also fell from 87% in 2018 to 79% in 2023. The share who agreed completely fell from 72% to 57%.

[Many variables that you might think are correlated don't seem to be, or not very strongly -- use of social media, dad-in-the-home or not, video games (in fact, "it was the non-gamers who had the largest decreases in beliefs in gender equality since 2018.")]

However, one correlation stood out.

[Oops maybe I shouldn't have cropped it so tightly, but the left edge of the graphs starts in 1990.]

 

[PloverWing]

Troubling, but perhaps not surprising. Sigh.

 

[Nithavela]

Uuuh, that's a steep decline.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'm not terribly shocked that younger males have developed a bit of a chip on their shoulder.

It's no coincidence that one of the primary focal points for the Democrats over the past two years has been "how can reconnect with young men?"

While I don't agree with Tim Walz and Gavin Newsom on everything, on Gavin's recent podcast, they hit the nail on the head.

Paraphrased --

"We've spent the last 10 years telling girls you can do anything, that you're unique and special by virtue of being a girl, and highlighting all of the ways that you're better than the boys, and at the same time, have been telling the boys the exact opposite, that there's nothing special about you, that you need to check your privilege, and that masculinity is toxic"

In plain terms, this is the predictable backlash against postmodern feminism.

I mean, does anyone like being told their built-in traits are "toxic" and something they need to apologize for?


The "inequality in the workplace" conversations have become painfully transparent.

It's almost always discussed exclusively within the confines of the executive team and C-Suite, and never discussed in terms of the other "less desirable" jobs. For example, postmodern feminists have the "X% of C-Level people are men, that's unfair" stat committed to memory, but you'll never hear that stat with regards to Plumbers.

It only takes a summer of working retail or restaurant for a young man to realize that a lot of the "it's the same job title, so we deserve equal pay" thing is baloney to a degree. (where some want the benefit of "patriarchy" in some instances, but the full egalitarian treatment when payday comes around)

 

[essentialsaltes]

I think for those of us watching the recent changes in some parts of American Christianity, this is part and parcel with certain influential pastors favoring a repeal of women's suffrage, a return to traditional gender roles, and the demonization of empathy and the 'dumb moms' who foster such attitudes.

 

[Servus]

Liberalism has been handled so poorly it's no wonder it's declining.

 

[rjs330]

I think for those of us watching the recent changes in some parts of American Christianity, this is part and parcel with certain influential pastors favoring a repeal of women's suffrage, a return to traditional gender roles, and the demonization of empathy and the 'dumb moms' who foster such attitudes.

I think.its more likely a backlash against the liberal leftist atracks on males over the years.

I dont know who the certain influential pastors you are talking about are. But I do know that some places have been working on building up the boys instead of tearing them down. For too long we have been seeing the feminization of the American male and attacks on masculinity.

Maybe the boys are over compensating. Women should absolutely get the same pay for the same work as males. And do right now. They also should have rhe same opportunities as men. I also think they do right now as well if they want them.

There is nothing wrong with traditional gender roles. And we shouldnt be shaming those (me and women) who want them.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

American boys have become less supportive of gender equality​

A survey of 8th and 10th graders shows a sharp drop in the percent of boys who believe that women should have the same opportunities as men​

The long-running Monitoring the Future study has been surveying 8th and 10th graders since 1991, and shows a sharp drop in the proportion of 8th and 10th graders that believe in gender equality in the last five years.

In 2018, 84% of 8th and 10th grade boys agreed that women should have the same job opportunities as men. But in the last five years, the number dropped to 72%. The proportion of boys who completely agreed (as opposed to “mostly agree”) saw an even steeper drop, from 63% to 45%.

The share of boys agreeing that women deserve equal pay also fell from 87% in 2018 to 79% in 2023. The share who agreed completely fell from 72% to 57%.

[Many variables that you might think are correlated don't seem to be, or not very strongly -- use of social media, dad-in-the-home or not, video games (in fact, "it was the non-gamers who had the largest decreases in beliefs in gender equality since 2018.")]

However, one correlation stood out.

View attachment 369546

[Oops maybe I shouldn't have cropped it so tightly, but the left edge of the graphs starts in 1990.]

This is appalling. How does it look for men in general? If these numbers stay the same or get worse into adulthood, American women should just en masse try to emigrate.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

American boys have become less supportive of gender equality​

A survey of 8th and 10th graders shows a sharp drop in the percent of boys who believe that women should have the same opportunities as men​

The long-running Monitoring the Future study has been surveying 8th and 10th graders since 1991, and shows a sharp drop in the proportion of 8th and 10th graders that believe in gender equality in the last five years.

In 2018, 84% of 8th and 10th grade boys agreed that women should have the same job opportunities as men. But in the last five years, the number dropped to 72%. The proportion of boys who completely agreed (as opposed to “mostly agree”) saw an even steeper drop, from 63% to 45%.

The share of boys agreeing that women deserve equal pay also fell from 87% in 2018 to 79% in 2023. The share who agreed completely fell from 72% to 57%.

[Many variables that you might think are correlated don't seem to be, or not very strongly -- use of social media, dad-in-the-home or not, video games (in fact, "it was the non-gamers who had the largest decreases in beliefs in gender equality since 2018.")]

However, one correlation stood out.

View attachment 369546

[Oops maybe I shouldn't have cropped it so tightly, but the left edge of the graphs starts in 1990.]

With boys in that age range, I’ve seen it in lots of the boys.

 

[Larniavc]

American boys have become less supportive of gender equality​

A survey of 8th and 10th graders shows a sharp drop in the percent of boys who believe that women should have the same opportunities as men​

The long-running Monitoring the Future study has been surveying 8th and 10th graders since 1991, and shows a sharp drop in the proportion of 8th and 10th graders that believe in gender equality in the last five years.

In 2018, 84% of 8th and 10th grade boys agreed that women should have the same job opportunities as men. But in the last five years, the number dropped to 72%. The proportion of boys who completely agreed (as opposed to “mostly agree”) saw an even steeper drop, from 63% to 45%.

The share of boys agreeing that women deserve equal pay also fell from 87% in 2018 to 79% in 2023. The share who agreed completely fell from 72% to 57%.

[Many variables that you might think are correlated don't seem to be, or not very strongly -- use of social media, dad-in-the-home or not, video games (in fact, "it was the non-gamers who had the largest decreases in beliefs in gender equality since 2018.")]

However, one correlation stood out.

View attachment 369546

[Oops maybe I shouldn't have cropped it so tightly, but the left edge of the graphs starts in 1990.]

America drifting listlessly towards fundamental Islamic views on women.

Bodily rights for women are already under attack with prison sentences or risk of death.

America really is becoming the land of the straight male WASP.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This is appalling. How does it look for men in general? If these numbers stay the same or get worse into adulthood, American women should just en masse try to emigrate.

Or, as a backup option, rather than packing up and moving to another country, the Democrats could focus on forming a constructive message aimed at young men so that their only two choices aren't "embrace postmodern feminism" or "watch Andrew Tate podcasts"

 

[Larniavc]

Or, as a backup option, rather than packing up and moving to another country, the Democrats could focus on forming a constructive message aimed at young men so that their only two choices aren't "embrace postmodern feminism" or "watch Andrew Tate podcasts"

Education is key. Which is another thing under attack in America.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Or, as a backup option, rather than packing up and moving to another country, the Democrats could focus on forming a constructive message aimed at young men so that their only two choices aren't "embrace postmodern feminism" or "watch Andrew Tate podcasts"

What does "equal pay for equal job" and equal job opportunities have to do with postmodern feminism and Andrew Tate podcasts? Pretty sure they were both in what could be called second wave feminism.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Education is key. Which is another thing under attack in America.

It depends on what you're referring to as "education".

If you're referring to what's being taught in schools, then I'd argue they were one of the parties that had a hand in creating the backlash being discussed.


Colleges (and to a lesser degree, High Schools) were complicit.

Postmodern feminism and popularization of terms like "Toxic Masculinity" came out of the halls of academia.


"Let's spend a decade talking about how bad Steve is, and celebrating the virtues of everyone but Steve"
(10 years later)
"Hmmm...why doesn't Steve like us? And why does he seem to be so drawn to the polar opposite viewpoint from ours? ...must be something he heard on a podcast"

 

[Larniavc]

It depends on what you're referring to as "education".

If you're referring to what's being taught in schools, then I'd argue they were one of the parties that had a hand in creating the backlash being discussed.


Colleges (and to a lesser degree, High Schools) were complicit.

Postmodern feminism and popularization of terms like "Toxic Masculinity" came out of the halls of academia.


"Let's spend a decade talking about how bad Steve is, and celebrating the virtues of everyone but Steve"
(10 years later)
"Hmmm...why doesn't Steve like us? And why does he seem to be so drawn to the polar opposite viewpoint from ours? ...must be something he heard on a podcast"

Does this falling view of the value of women hold true in other developed nations or is it just America?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Or, as a backup option, rather than packing up and moving to another country, the Democrats could focus on forming a constructive message aimed at young men so that their only two choices aren't "embrace postmodern feminism" or "watch Andrew Tate podcasts"

In the 8-10 demographic, I highly doubt that kids are making a conscious decision to watch people like Andrew Tate because of his thoughts on women. They watch their favorite video game streamers, many of whom share Tate's beliefs and repeat them on stream, and the Youtube algorithm leads them to people like Tate. They are thus slowly indoctrinated into those beliefs.

The onus is on parents to monitor what their kids are watching and on streaming services to make sure they're not promulgating harmful information.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

What does "equal pay for equal job" and equal job opportunities have to do with postmodern feminism and Andrew Tate podcasts? Pretty sure they were both in what could be called second wave feminism.

There are aspects that exist in multiple "waves"

But it depends on the context in which it's being discussed.

Earlier forms of feminism would discuss the topic in the more pragmatic sense of "if 2 people are literally performing the exact same task and both achieving the same satisfactory result, then they deserve identical pay"

The postmodern theory would discuss it more in terms of "even if one person is clearly performing the task better than the other person, that doesn't really matter, society still has a duty to pay the other person just as much if they're in a marginalized group, because there are certain systemic barriers and imbalances we need to correct for"


Or more plainly
"Jane is performing the same task as Tom, and just as well, so Jane should make just as much as Tom" (merit-based fairness-focused)
vs.
"The task, and how well it's performed, are secondary... We need to make sure Jane makes just as much because historically, Jane comes from a group that has been marginalized by the group that Tom is a member of" (equity-focused)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

In the 8-10 demographic, I highly doubt that kids are making a conscious decision to watch people like Andrew Tate because of his thoughts on women. They watch their favorite video game streamers, many of whom share Tate's beliefs and repeat them on stream, and the Youtube algorithm leads them to people like Tate. They are thus slowly indoctrinated into those beliefs.

The onus is on parents to monitor what their kids are watching and on streaming services to make sure they're not promulgating harmful information.

I thought the graph mentioned 8th-10th grade, not age 8-10.

14-17 year olds in those grades are most certainly watching streaming content.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Does this falling view of the value of women hold true in other developed nations or is it just America?

I don't think it's a "falling view of the value of women". It's a desire return to acknowledgement that the two sexes are different, that they're better at certain things than the other, and that they're complimentary.

Largely, it's a rejection of the notion that "gender is just a construct, and men and women are interchangeable"

 

[essentialsaltes]

In the 8-10 demographic,

This is 8th grade to 10th grade or roughly 14-16 years of age.