Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

[public hermit]

This goes beyond mental illness into moral depravity in the heart and mind of the killer. God has a remedy for society, but America is ignoring God right now, to our own harm and peril.

I thought America was paying attention to God, that's why we have Trump and plenty of guns.

 

[Desk trauma]

Well, all the motions have been gone through, time to return to our prior positions and wait to do it all over again next time. Won’t be too long.

 

[MrMoe]

Correct.this is a very specially case where exposing hypocrisy

Which is an excuse anyone using a whataboutism can use.

and small minded mean spiritism is the point.

Mean spiritism? Is that when people try to contact mean spirits?

 

[public hermit]

A certain number of Americans are paying attention to God, but sadly, over the years that number continues to decline and look at the direction that America has been heading over the last 70 years. Prayer removed from public schools, the sexual revolution, explosion of pornography and violence on TV and the internet, gay marriage, defund the police, soft on crime legislation, drastic rise in school shootings, illegal immigration invasion of America etc.. I know people who voted for Trump who are very concerned about our rights and freedoms in America but were not Christians. They saw the direction that the Biden administration was leading America. The democratic party has evolved into the party that hates America, hates Christians and promotes lawlessness!

Now there have been plenty of guns in America for several years now. Disarming law abiding citizens is not going to solve the problem of gun violence in America. Guns don't kill innocent people. Morally depraved lunatics kill innocent people.

Interesting broadcast by Paul Harvey in 1965. A warning to America.

My bad. We clearly need a sarcasm emoji.

 

[Hentenza]

“A Killing Machine”: Half of All Mass Shooters Used High-Capacity Magazines

Magazines holding more than 10 rounds were used in 31 of the 62 mass shootings we investigated.

Outlawing high-capacity magazines won’t prevent gun crimes from happening, Chipman notes, but might well reduce the carnage: “Maybe 3 kids get killed instead of 20.”

High-capacity magazines also play a role in the daily gun deaths plaguing US cities from LA to Chicago to Baltimore. “A lot of these folks who are driving in their cars and shooting out the window, they’re shooting whatever is in their magazine,” Chipman says. “So if it’s only 10 rounds instead of 20, maybe the kid halfway down the block doesn’t get hit with round 18.”



How often are LCMs used in high-fatality mass shootings? At minimum, 64% of high-fatality mass shootings perpetrated between 1990 and 2017 involved LCMs.

Are more people killed when LCMs are used? Yes, and the difference in our data set is substantial and statistically significant (11.8 vs 7.3). We should add that our results likely underestimate the difference because we have a truncated sample (we only examined incidents with at least 6 victim fatalities), compounded by the fact that the number of homicide incidents fell as the number of victims increased.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2019.305311

Some high profile mass shootings where only handguns with high-capacity magazines were used:

View attachment 369187

The logic here is a bit blurry. The parallel would be the heavier the car the more chances for damage and death therefore all cars cannot weigh more than (arbitrary number). It still does not account for the biggest variable which is the human behind the wheel or the human shooting the gun.

Btw- I can reload an empty magazine in my handgun in less than 3 seconds so if I am a shooter the smaller magazine is not going to hinder me much.

 

[JosephZ]

....look at the direction that America has been heading over the last 70 years. Prayer removed from public schools, the sexual revolution, explosion of pornography and violence on TV and the internet, gay marriage, defund the police, soft on crime legislation, drastic rise in school shootings, illegal immigration invasion of America etc..

Most developed countries have many of the same issues as the US: no prayer in public schools, mental illness, broken families, drug addictions, transgender people, an explosion of pornography and violence on TV and the internet, gay marriage, etc., but they don't have mass shootings on the regular or high child and teen firearm mortality rates.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the unique issue that the US has compared to other countries is too many guns and access to them being too easy.

Disarming law abiding citizens is not going to solve the problem of gun violence in America.

There's no need to disarm law-abiding citizens. There are several gun control measures that can be taken to reduce gun violence and the number of gun deaths in the US. Unfortunately, too many in this country have some sort of weird fetish with guns and apparently love their guns more than they love their neighbors and their neighbors' children.

 

[JosephZ]

Minneapolis police chief Brian O'Hara said the suspect responsible for opening fire on a Catholic school church in the city on Wednesday was a member of the church and a student at the school in the past.

Minneapolis police chief says suspect was a member of the church

Minneapolis police chief Brian O'Hara said the suspect responsible for opening fire on a Catholic school church in the city on Wednesday was a member of the

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Danthemailman]

Most developed countries have many of the same issues as the US: no prayer in public schools, mental illness, broken families, drug addictions, transgender people, an explosion of pornography and violence on TV and the internet, gay marriage, etc., but they don't have mass shootings on the regular or high child and teen firearm mortality rates.

View attachment 369206

It seems pretty obvious to me that the unique issue that the US has compared to other countries is too many guns and access to them being too easy.

There's no need to disarm law-abiding citizens. There are several gun control measures that can be taken to reduce gun violence and the number of gun deaths in the US. Unfortunately, too many in this country have some sort of weird fetish with guns and apparently love their guns more than they love their neighbors and their neighbors' children.

It sounds like you have it all figured out.

 

[Hentenza]

It's true, and I can remember those gun racks full and ready for hunting after school. But it was a different gun culture then, too. I heard many times growing up that the only people who carried concealed pistols were people too weak to fist fight or criminals. There was a certain amount of stigma and shame associated with it. Of course, I grew up in Texas and people often did have concealed weapons, but there was a shame culture that kept people in order, to some extent.

That has radically changed. People seem to have an inordinate love for guns now and see them as a solution for their problems and disputes in way that wasn't so prevalent then, I don't think.

In my opinion, a large subset of people that own guns (sometime multiple guns) do so because if their perception of a society that leans more and more toward lawlessness. In other words for defense. However, the interesting fact is that households with guns gave dropped 28% from the over 50 percentile in the 70’s to 35% now so less households have guns. See my post 214.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Is it true the shooter was [trans], who changed his name from Robert to Robin?

Although that's apparently what motivated the name change years ago, more recently he expressed some doubts in the recent videos.

Per the NY Post: "I know I am not a woman but I definitely don’t feel like a man,” he wrote.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It sounds like you have it all figured out.

Many countries have already figured out what we can’t seem to get. That’s why our kids keep being killed while theirs are safe in school.

 

[public hermit]

In my opinion, a large subset of people that own guns (sometime multiple guns) do so because if their perception of a society that leans more and more toward lawlessness. In other words for defense. However, the interesting fact is that households with guns gave dropped 28% from the over 50 percentile in the 70’s to 35% now so less households have guns. See my post 214.

I saw your post. The number of guns doesn't matter if our attitude towards guns have changed, and they have.

 

[JosephZ]

I can reload an empty magazine in my handgun in less than 3 seconds so if I am a shooter the smaller magazine is not going to hinder me much.

You probably can, but what about the average low-life who wants to shoot up a classroom full of kids or a place of worship? Or someone who gets kicked out of a bar after having a few too many and comes back with their gun in a fit of rage? Also, switching magazines is much easier in a controlled environment compared to an adrenaline-induced situation. Mistakes and missteps are more likely to be made in the latter.

Each time a shooter has to switch magazines, even if it takes just a couple of seconds, it gives people an opportunity to react, whether that is to run, hide, or, as has happened many times, stop the shooter.


"I saw the Waffle House employees scatter. Then I looked back and I saw a person laying on the ground right at the entrance of the door," said Shaw, wearing a brown suit jacket and with his right forearm bandaged.

Shaw said he slid from his table and moved toward the door, which the gunman was trying to enter after apparently firing through the glass.

"I'm pretty sure he grazed my arm," said Shaw, 29.

"I kind of made up my mind, because there's no way to lock that door, that if it was gonna come down to it, he was gonna have to work to kill me."
As the shooter was either reloading, or the weapon jammed, Shaw ran and hit him with the swivel door, leading to a scuffle.

"I managed to get him with one hand on the gun, and then I grabbed it from him and threw it over the countertop," before getting the suspect outside, Shaw said.



Jacob later said he thought the gunfire was fire crackers, but as he processed what was happening, he pushed his girlfriend onto a nearby table before falling to the ground; though he didn’t yet know it, he had been shot in the chest.

Chaos erupted as students fled, trying to escape or hide as the assailant continued to shoot — one 17-year-old was struck and killed.

From the floor, Jacob said later that he saw the assailant point a rifle at the head of a female student. The assailant pulled the trigger, but the gun did not fire.
As the assailant attempted to reload his weapon, Jacob got off the floor and ran 20 feet toward the assailant. He tripped and fell, but immediately returned to his feet and charged the assailant. He took the boy to the floor, causing him to drop the rifle. They struggled on the floor and other students joined in to assist Jacob, including his younger brother.



Several people were injured Saturday night after a driver ran his truck into a crowded Hiram restaurant and opened fire, police said.

Eduardo Morales, 34, was arrested after a group of patrons at the 278 South Bar & Grill detained him while he was trying to reload the gun, the Hiram Police Department said in a statement. A concert was underway at the time, the establishment’s owner told Channel 2 Action News.

“I dove in through the driver’s side window, and when I reached in there, I noticed that he had a pistol and he was reloading and putting another magazine in,” Puerto told Channel 2.” And I grabbed the wrist where he had the pistol. He was putting up a fight and he wouldn’t let it go. I kept elbowing him with my right arm.”



Jared Lee Loughner, the alleged shooter in Tucson, used a 33-round magazine in a murderous rampage. The sheriff says 31 spent rounds were found on the scene.

As we now know, a group of heroic bystanders stopped the shooter by wrestling him to the ground. But they didn't have an opportunity to intervene until he emptied the magazine and paused to reload.

If the shooter didn't have access to the high-capacity magazine that he used, he would have stopped to reload sooner and lives might have been saved.

 

[Danthemailman]

Many countries have already figured out what we can’t seem to get. That’s why our kids keep being killed while theirs are safe in school.

So, the democratic party has a solid plan to drastically lower gun violence in America?

 

[durangodawood]

So, the democratic party has a solid plan to drastically lower gun violence in America?

I think it will also require R inclined voters to pressure their party, which currently seems completely owned by the gun lobby.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

So, the democratic party has a solid plan to drastically lower gun violence in America?

No, the Democratic Party is part of this very same America that can’t seem to do anything about the mass/school shooter problem.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So, the democratic party has a solid plan to drastically lower gun violence in America?

We had a bipartisan plan for ten years.

AI Overview


While a federal ban on assault weapons has not been in effect since 2004, studies on the 1994 ban and its expiration show an increase in the frequency and lethality of mass shootings following its end
. The debate on the ban's effectiveness remains inconclusive regarding its impact on general violent crime, but research suggests an effect on gun-related deaths and injuries in specific contexts.
Effects observed during the 1994–2004 federal ban
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban (FAWB), in effect from 1994 to 2004, included a prohibition on the manufacture and sale of certain military-style semiautomatic weapons and high-capacity magazines (HCMs), which hold more than ten rounds. While the ban was in effect, studies observed the following effects:

• Mass shootings: Mass shooting fatalities were 70% less likely to occur, compared to the periods before and after the ban. Research suggests the ban may have prevented 5 to 11 mass shooting events during its 10-year period.
• Reduced lethality: Some studies found that the lethality of mass shootings decreased, as assaults involving high-capacity magazines result in significantly more injuries and deaths.
• Reduced criminal use: The share of recovered crime guns that were assault weapons declined by at least 32% in several major cities.
• Loopholes and market response: The effectiveness of the 1994 ban was limited by several loopholes. A "grandfather" clause allowed existing weapons to remain in circulation, manufacturers produced modified "post-ban" versions of prohibited firearms, and the policy did not include a buyback program.

Effects observed after the ban expired
After the ban expired in 2004, the rate of mass shootings and the use of assault weapons in crimes increased dramatically.

• Increased mass shootings: Following the ban's expiration, the US saw an immediate and steep rise in mass shooting deaths. The average number of yearly deaths from mass shootings increased significantly in the years after 2004.
• Greater lethality: The use of assault weapons and HCMs in high-fatality public mass shootings surged from 31% during the 1966–2009 period to 59% from 2010–2019.
• Forecasting potential prevention: A 2024 Northwestern Medicine study estimated that if the ban had remained in place, it could have prevented up to 38 more mass shootings between 2005 and 2022.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Most developed countries have many of the same issues as the US: no prayer in public schools, mental illness, broken families, drug addictions, transgender people, an explosion of pornography and violence on TV and the internet, gay marriage, etc., but they don't have mass shootings on the regular or high child and teen firearm mortality rates.

View attachment 369206

It seems pretty obvious to me that the unique issue that the US has compared to other countries is too many guns and access to them being too easy.


There's no need to disarm law-abiding citizens. There are several gun control measures that can be taken to reduce gun violence and the number of gun deaths in the US. Unfortunately, too many in this country have some sort of weird fetish with guns and apparently love their guns more than they love their neighbors and their neighbors' children.

For starters, some of that stat from age 1-19 is attributable to gang violence

Gun Violence Among Serious Young Offenders | ASU Center for Problem-Oriented Policing

POP Center Problems Gun Violence Among Serious Young Offenders Page 1

popcenter.asu.edu

Arizona State University notes how about 60% of that statistic comes from gang related homicides involving people who are 15-19.

The breakdown according to "EverytownResearch" (a gun control advocacy org)
65% is homicide
30% is suicide
5% is accidental

So if we calculate the breakdown
39% gang-related homicide
26% non gang-related homicide
30% suicide
5% accidental


The deaths highlighted in red are the ones that could likely be addressed to a degree with gun policy. (gangs aren't getting their guns from the sporting goods store, and for suicides, data from other countries that have implemented gun control policies like the UK have shown that suicide rates are largely unimpacted, and people typically move to the "next easiest" method.)

2 years prior to the restrictions, 7.4...with guns being the method used in ~50% of cases
2 years after the restrictions, 7.5...with hanging and intentional overdose sitting atop the list.


Like I mentioned...
There are measures that could be taken that would potentially prevent some of the two highlighted categories ...however, I have doubts that people would have the patience to let them actually simmer long enough to let the effects come to fruition before trying to immediately throw additional restriction measures at the problem.

People need to make sure they have their heads wrapped around the reality that the proliferation is already extremely high, and that any measures imposed will be on a "moving forward basis", and likely won't significantly move the needle immediately. (it could be 30 years before any noticeable shift in the stats)

So part of the concern would be that some of those measures get implemented, and when the gun death rate doesn't drop by 40 percent by next year, people will take that to mean "we must not have done enough, so we need to crank up the restrictions even more".


I personally have no issues with things like universal background checks, adding more mental health disqualifiers to the background checks, and implementing waiting periods. Simply because I think long-term it'll be a better outcome, but I'm not under any false impression that "we'll be just like Canada & the UK by 2030 if we implement these regulations"

As where, I feel like modern activists and advocates seem to have a diminishing patience level for "how soon until things are the way I want them to be?" It took 100 years for the gun affinity/culture to develop to where it's at today, that's not going to be un-done in a decade.

 

[Palmfever]

Police respond to shooting at south Minneapolis church; multiple victims reported, shooter dead

Richfield police confirmed reports of 20 victims, adding that a man dressed in all black and armed with a rifle was reported at the scene.

Suspect ‘contained’ after shooting reported at Minneapolis Catholic school: authorities​

Authorities say a suspect has been “contained” after a shooting occurred at a Minneapolis Catholic school on Wednesday morning.

Gov. Tim Walz said on social media that he had been briefed on a shooting at Annunciation Catholic School, located on the city’s south side. Police told local news outlet KARE that an active shooter allegedly opened fire at Annunciation Church.

It’s unclear if students, who had their first day of classes on Monday, were in the church at the time. The pre-kindergarten through eighth-grade school had an all-school Mass scheduled at 8:15 a.m. Wednesday morning, according to its website.

Minneapolis school shooter Robin Westman confessed he was ‘tired of being trans’: ‘I wish I never brain-washed myself’

In a twisted handwritten journal he shared on YouTube before the massacre, Westman groaned about his long hair and his decision to transition.

nypost.com

 

[Palmfever]

Police respond to shooting at south Minneapolis church; multiple victims reported, shooter dead

Richfield police confirmed reports of 20 victims, adding that a man dressed in all black and armed with a rifle was reported at the scene.

Suspect ‘contained’ after shooting reported at Minneapolis Catholic school: authorities​

Authorities say a suspect has been “contained” after a shooting occurred at a Minneapolis Catholic school on Wednesday morning.

Gov. Tim Walz said on social media that he had been briefed on a shooting at Annunciation Catholic School, located on the city’s south side. Police told local news outlet KARE that an active shooter allegedly opened fire at Annunciation Church.

It’s unclear if students, who had their first day of classes on Monday, were in the church at the time. The pre-kindergarten through eighth-grade school had an all-school Mass scheduled at 8:15 a.m. Wednesday morning, according to its website.

Mom of Minneapolis mass shooter Robin Westman worked at Catholic school where he opened fire, killing 2 kids: police

The mother of the lone gunman who killed two students and injured 17 others at the Annunciation Church and Catholic School in Minneapolis was an employee at the school, police said.

nypost.com