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Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

Aldebaran

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Its the wrong question for examining the effectiveness of the proposed remedy.

Its like me asking how many kids would be saved at this school if this one kid couldnt get hold of a firearm.
It sounds like your refusal to consider lives being saved by having armed teachers and security means you'd rather not even try it, and just let these shootings continue. That's not much of a solution.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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It needs to be voluntary that is to say that a teacher should not be required to carry, however if they wish to do so and go through the proper classes I do not see the issue.
So you think teachers should be paid the combined salary of police and teacher? You're willing to pay teachers 2x their salary or more? And you'll sign off on the increased spending required to train and equip them? It means buying guns, hiring more people, and developing and overseeing training standards.
 
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durangodawood

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It sounds like your refusal to consider lives being saved by having armed teachers and security means you'd rather not even try it, and just let these shootings continue. That's not much of a solution.
Yes, i dont want to try a solution thats almost certain to cause more harm than good.

Im guessing youre not willing to try the gun control proposals. Does that mean you want to let the shootings continue? I mean, your argument cuts both ways.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Both alcohol and hard drugs should be prove that banning stuff has a poor track record ( as to what is mmeant by worse for example things were not as consistant so you had no idea what you were actually getting or how strong it would be.
So you think that drugs being illegal has more people addicted than if they were widely available? That's what you're going with?
 
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Aldebaran

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No, dead kids being less important than gun culture are why America always loses the argument.
Now it sounds like you're blaming people who own guns for the acts of a few criminals.
Your argument is resembling the same arguments that have always failed, and why democratic candidates for president finally gave up on running on a "ban the guns" platform.

In short, no, they're not. You have a really exceptionally poor outlook on the role of police if you think their primary purpose is to show up with guns.
So how is it that police stop a school shooter, if not by using their own guns in some way?

It's not because of fire extinguishers It's because of the legislation and rules in place that prevent fires, and the acknowledgment that when one occurs the solution isn't to light another fire in another part of the room, and that all the fire extinguishers in the world won't stop a huge fire.
Legislation prevents fires? What legislation would prevent someone from shooting people?
 
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dogs4thewin

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So you think teachers should be paid the combined salary of police and teacher? You're willing to pay teachers 2x their salary or more? And you'll sign off on the increased spending required to train and equip them? It means buying guns, hiring more people, and developing and overseeing training standards.
Sense teachers would not be required to undergo training as part of the teaching job (firearm training I mean then a teacher wishing to carry at school would simply take the classes on their own time with their own personal gun.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yes, i dont want to try a solution thats almost certain to cause more harm than good.

Im guessing youre not willing to try the gun control proposals. Does that mean you want to let the shootings continue? I mean, your argument cuts both ways.
Banning guns was already tried, and it failed. That's why the bans were expired, and it's why gun bans aren't being so readily called for by politicians anymore.
 
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Perpetual Student

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If the problem were guns we would have A LOT more shootings.
If more guns were the solution, then countries with very strict gun regulations would have more crime. Which is noot the case.
 
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dogs4thewin

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So you think that drugs being illegal has more people addicted than if they were widely available? That's what you're going with?
If the war on drugs worked then explain why it is that we have more people than ever incarcerated on drug charges after DECADES if the drug war. If banning things were effective there would be fewer drugs now than there ever have been oh and alcohol may still be illegal. As it stands drugs are everywhere in and out of prison and alcohol has been legal for about ninty-two years after being banned for less than a score.
 
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durangodawood

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Banning guns was already tried, and it failed. That's why the bans were expired, and it's why gun bans aren't being so readily called for by politicians anymore.
It hasnt been tried. An isolated ban hare and there is not a ban. People move about, you know.
 
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Aldebaran

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Building codes. These are adopted by legislation, and they have a huge effect on how fires start, spread, and are suppressed.
Well, we'd have to get into what those building codes are and then apply them to a "firearms code" that prevents someone who wants to kill people from doing so. The 20,000 or more gun laws already on the books certainly haven't coded mass shootings out of existence. But some people think another law or two would do the trick.
 
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dogs4thewin

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If more guns were the solution, then countries with very strict gun regulations would have more crime. Which is noot the case.
I did not say more guns, but at this point banning guns when there are MILLIONS of them out there (even of the guns people tend to want to ban is likely going to be very hard and if anything lead to more violence.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Aldebaran

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It hasnt been tried. An isolated ban hare and there is not a ban. People move about, you know.
Minneapolis as a city and Minnesota as a state are completely controlled by the democrats. I'm sure they would be able to come up with something legislatively if there was something legislative they could do. But Minneapolis is also where the Floyd riots got started, and they couldn't even do anything about that violence either, and it spread nationwide. So don't count on those same people to do anything effective about the current issue either.
 
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Perpetual Student

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Don't underestimate the power of prayer as prayer can do anything God can and God can do everything.
The shooting happened during an eucharist, when people are praying. Could you say how effective these prayers were at preventing an even worse outcome?
 
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durangodawood

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Minneapolis as a city and Minnesota as a state are completely controlled by the democrats. I'm sure they would be able to come up with something legislatively if there was something legislative they could do.
"Would be"? We were talking about whether bans that have been enacted really mean anything.

Plus, "ban" can mean a lot of things. As for me I would not propose anything that eliminates an individual right to own firearms.
 
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dogs4thewin

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It was a yes or no question. Don't you think saving a few lives is better than saving none?
What quality of life would the person have there are times when saving people is frankly selfish.
 
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