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Does the Bible command Christians to support the State of Israel?

ViaCrucis

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Oh you are Preterist. Then naturally, our interpretation of Matthew 24 and 25 would differ.

But Matthew 25:31-46 says those who do not help Jesus's brethren will be thrown into the lake of fire, I assume you don't teach that when you teach Matthew 25:31-46 is for today? Why not?

I try not to make up things when I read the Bible. It says that those who mistreat the vulnerable will be judged for their mistreatment of the vulnerable and go to where there is fire and gnashing of teeth. It says nothing about the lake of fire, that's from the Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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XrxrX

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I notice you kept saying "church" when I mentioned the Body of Christ.

Are they equivalent terms to you?
Yes, they certainly are. I get that you are hyper Dispensationalist, so I'm well acquainted with your theology and disagreements. They are extreme error. The Church and the Body are synonymous; the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are synonymous.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Replacement theology does not agree with the following and many other scriptures:

“For he finds fault with them when he says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.'” – Hebrews 8:8

Jews and Christians who have put their faith in Christ are brothers and sisters, but the house of Israel are still God’s chosen people. He will defend Israel in the last days just as He has done in the last 72 years. Can you not see God’s hand in the 6-day war? Can you not see how God has protected Israel and blessed it? The Israelites were a rotten bunch, but God never forsake them. The 144,000 in Revelation are Jews. Israel is not what it should be, but it almost never has been. However, God chose them and has a plan for them.

Jews who put their faith in Christ are Christians.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek".

"Replacement Theology" is a pejorative. There was no replacing. God established His New Covenant through Christ, as the Lord says clear as crystal at His Last Supper, "This is the Cup of the New Covenant in My blood". The Old Covenant was established at Mt. Sinai, the New Covenant was established at Mt. Calvary. Those who believed in the Messiah--in Jesus--are the faithful remnant of Israel; and the Gentiles who believe are united together with them, so that the wall of separation is gone, and God has taken what was formerly two peoples and made one new people.

The Church doesn't replace Israel.

The Church is Israel, Israel is the Church. They are one and the same.

God does not make a distinction between Jew and non-Jew; for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and all are justified by His grace through faith in Jesus the Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I notice you kept saying "church" when I mentioned the Body of Christ.

Are they equivalent terms to you?

They are equivalent terms in Scripture and in the historic faith of everyone who has believed in Jesus for the last two thousand years.

St. Paul at several times introduces this language of "the Body of Christ", the most famous is in 1 Corinthians. But to get to where Paul uses this language in 1 Corinthians 12, we have to go back a couple of chapters, where Paul talks about how in the Lord's Supper we partake of Christ's body and blood, "Is not the cof blessing which we bless a partaking of the blood of Christ?" and "Is not the bread which we break a partaking of the body of Christ?" and on the topic of the bread/body of Christ he speaks of how there is one loaf, so all who partake of the one loaf are one body. There is a clear intersection of Christ's literal body and His Church, and that intersection is in the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

St. Paul's robust theology of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ cannot be reduced to mere metaphor, it combines the Sacraments (the Lord's Supper and Baptism), it brings in the mystical union of the Christian--individually and corporately--to Jesus Christ (the language of being "in Christ" and the language of being "united to/with Christ"). It brings together the language of where Jesus speaks about Himself as the Temple of God in the Gospels, and how the Church is God's Temple, and each of us individually is a temple of the Holy Spirit and the individual bricks that make up this Temple of God as the Church with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone. And this isn't unique to Paul, St. Peter also adds his voice to the choir in his letters when he speaks of the Church as a royal priesthood and a holy nation, spiritual stones being built into a spiritual building (there's that temple language again).

Of course the Church is the Body of Christ, because we have been brought into Christ, united to Christ, are co-heirs with Christ, and as He is the Head, we are the Body; His Body is the Temple, even as He is the Paschal Lamb, the Sacrifice whose blood He Himself, as Great High Priest, has sprinkled upon the mercy seat of His cross by which all of us have access to God by grace. To enter into the Holy of Holies, and as He is Great High Priest, and we are all priests under Him we receive from Him the Sacrifice of His own body and blood; we are priests, we are a Temple, we are His Body, He is Great High Priest, He is the Sacrificial Offering, He is the Temple. We receive His flesh and blood in the Sacrament of the Altar, even as we have entered into the Holy Place through the Sacrament of Baptism by which we have been washed clean.

The symbols and shadows of the Old Covenant, the stories of Israel, the promises of God being made since before the days of Abraham, all that was given in the Torah, through Moses, and through all the Prophets up until the days of John the Baptist are coming to pass, they are colliding here together in the Messiah, in Jesus. The Day of YAHWEH, when Judgment and Promise collide; where the dark powers and principalities of the world are crushed asunder beneath the feet of the bloody Lamb of God, the Root of Jesse, the Seed of Abraham, the Suffering Servant who makes full the Law and the Prophets, who makes full the whole story of Israel; who heals what Adam hurt. And here the Church is at the precipice of the great rejoicing of history: Messiah has come.

All that requires to see this is to pay attention. Have eyes to see and ears to hear. This is all right there from Genesis to Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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XrxrX

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I was probably thinking more closely of Genesis 17:1-8.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, ‘I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will make you exceedingly numerous.’ Then Abram fell on his face; and God said to him, ‘As for me, this is my covenant with you: You shall be the ancestor of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you the ancestor of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. I will establish my covenant between me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you, and to your offspring after you, the land where you are now an alien, all the land of Canaan, for a perpetual holding; and I will be their God.’​
Right, but you have to keep the whole context. The only unconditional "covenant" was with Abraham. God passed through the fire Himself (same as His Covenant with the Church).. But... after that, as the Inheritance passed down, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) it was Conditional, as you plainly see because His language becomes "If you obey..", and of course Israel the "nation" seals it's fate when they declare "We will obey all that You have said..". A vow... which God hold them to. And the synopsis, through several strays and returns.. God is faithful, merciful and is patient, to effect His plan.. of Jesus. Jesus declares without question their fate.. the "olive tree" cursed, the kingdom stripped and 70 AD. The End. And the Dispensationalist cut and paste theology, headline eschatology and Scofield/Darby error can be utterly dismantled if one takes the time. Jesus is the Seed, He is the Heir and we co heirs with Him. ALL the promises are His, and therefor ours. The Church inherits not just the disputed "Holy Land" but ALL the Earth. The promise to Abraham was not just some borders... it was The World. And that's our Inheritance.. and yet, as of yet... we lay no claim to anything, in service of the Gospel. While charlatans bicker over our Inheritance, we are Messengers of Good News, God's Grace. That's the deal for now.
 
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Guojing

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They are equivalent terms in Scripture and in the historic faith of everyone who has believed in Jesus for the last two thousand years.

St. Paul at several times introduces this language of "the Body of Christ", the most famous is in 1 Corinthians. But to get to where Paul uses this language in 1 Corinthians 12, we have to go back a couple of chapters, where Paul talks about how in the Lord's Supper we partake of Christ's body and blood, "Is not the cof blessing which we bless a partaking of the blood of Christ?" and "Is not the bread which we break a partaking of the body of Christ?" and on the topic of the bread/body of Christ he speaks of how there is one loaf, so all who partake of the one loaf are one body. There is a clear intersection of Christ's literal body and His Church, and that intersection is in the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

All that requires to see this is to pay attention. Have eyes to see and ears to hear. This is all right there from Genesis to Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran

So basically you are concluding that, just because Paul mentioned in 1 Cor that the Body of Christ is the church for today, you can go back to OT and every time you see the same word "church", you can assume its also the Body of Christ?
 
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Guojing

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I try not to make up things when I read the Bible. It says that those who mistreat the vulnerable will be judged for their mistreatment of the vulnerable and go to where there is fire and gnashing of teeth. It says nothing about the lake of fire, that's from the Revelation.

-CryptoLutheran

So you basically ignore the context of the word brethren, and you assumed that Jews don't call gentiles, dogs, during the time of Jesus first coming, in order to interpret Matthew 25:31-46 as also applicable today?
 
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ViaCrucis

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So you basically ignore the context of the word brethren, and you assumed that Jews don't call gentiles, dogs, during the time of Jesus first coming, in order to interpret Matthew 25:31-46 as also applicable today?

Jesus is calling the vulnerable and least of these "brethren". You're introducing a Jew/Gentile distinction into a text where it doesn't exist.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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So basically you are concluding that, just because Paul mentioned in 1 Cor that the Body of Christ is the church for today, you can go back to OT and every time you see the same word "church", you can assume its also the Body of Christ?

How often does the Old Testament use the word "church"?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jerry N.

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Jews who put their faith in Christ are Christians.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek".

"Replacement Theology" is a pejorative. There was no replacing. God established His New Covenant through Christ, as the Lord says clear as crystal at His Last Supper, "This is the Cup of the New Covenant in My blood". The Old Covenant was established at Mt. Sinai, the New Covenant was established at Mt. Calvary. Those who believed in the Messiah--in Jesus--are the faithful remnant of Israel; and the Gentiles who believe are united together with them, so that the wall of separation is gone, and God has taken what was formerly two peoples and made one new people.

The Church doesn't replace Israel.

The Church is Israel, Israel is the Church. They are one and the same.

God does not make a distinction between Jew and non-Jew; for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and all are justified by His grace through faith in Jesus the Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran.

What you wrote is true regarding salvation, but God is bigger than that. Salvation is the key teaching in the Bible, but He did many things for Israel that are not directly related. He even intervened in Babylon and Persia for Israel. Matthew 10:29-31: Sparrows are not part of the plan for salvation, but God cares for them. God does many things that are for His glory, and picking a favorite nation is one of them. God has a plan for each one of us when Jesus comes back. Why can't He have a special plan for believing Jews?
 
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ViaCrucis

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What you wrote is true regarding salvation, but God is bigger than that. Salvation is the key teaching in the Bible, but He did many things for Israel that are not directly related. He even intervened in Babylon and Persia for Israel. Matthew 10:29-31: Sparrows are not part of the plan for salvation, but God cares for them. God does many things that are for His glory, and picking a favorite nation is one of them. God has a plan for each one of us when Jesus comes back. Why can't He have a special plan for believing Jews?

He could, but Scripture says there is one olive tree with both natural branches and wild branches grafted on. Scripture says that Jews and Gentiles are, in the Messiah, a single people. Scripture says that all who are in Christ are heirs with Christ.

Scripture also says that Israel was chosen because it's about Jesus. God doesn't have two plans, two peoples, two gospels. There is one story of Redemption. One people of God in the Messiah. One Gospel for the whole world that runs from Genesis onward and is for everyone.

Salvation is not just about what happens after we die, salvation is the entirety of God's rescue project for all of creation.

This gets to the heart of what's happening, meta-level, in the entire Bible. This gets to the heart of what the Gospel even is. This gets right to the heart of everything that's ever happened, is happening, and will happen; from Creation to Eschaton, and World Everlasting.

It's that everything was broken through Adam. And Adam's progeny bear his brokenness, and indeed, the whole of creation bears the wounds of that sin; for human beings were given the great gift of having dominion over creation, to rule over creation with wisdom, love, peace, as the Image of God--as kings and priests; and that was fumbled, massively. And now everything is broken. That brokenness is repeatedly seen, as we watch Cain murder Abel. As we watch the world become hideous through sin, so God sends a great flood, preserving Noah, his family, and representatives of all the animals. We watch and see man, again, grow arrogant, building a tower to claim heaven, and God breaks their efforts by confusing the languages.

And then God calls an old man and his wife, Abram and Sarai, who will become Abraham and Sarah. He says to them that they would bear a child even at his advanced age, and his wife's barren state--and He keeps that promise. Abraham sired Isaac, and Isaac sired Jacob, and Jacob sired the twelve patriarchs. Then they went into Egypt, where the whole Hebrew people were enslaved. God redeems the nation, taking them from Egypt, gives them the Law and Covenant, and brings them into the land of promise.

The people enter the land and are ruled by their chieftans/judges, but they grow jealous of the nations and desire a king, even though they already have a King, they are ruled by King YHWH, God. So God gives them a king, and he's not very good, but He says He'll give them a different king, and through this shepherd-king will come the King of kings. David's son Solomon then rules, and though wise, and allowed to make a permanent Tabernacle, the Temple in Jerusalem, is nevertheless a man of many problems. After Solomon the nation is divided, north and south. Prophet after prophet comes, warning, pleading, and promising--the word of God comes over and over to warn and to heal. But the north is taken out by Assyria. And then later the south is taken out by Babylon. But in Babylon God continues to remind them of the promises. He will restore them to the land, the Temple will be rebuilt. Though they would no longer be ruled by a king, nevertheless the King of David's line is still come.

They are brought back into the land under the Persians. The Temple is rebuilt along with the city of Jerusalem. But Persia will be conquered by the Macedonians. And the Macedonians will fracture into competing Greek kingdoms. A short-lived independence through the Maccabees occurs; but sets the stage for fractured problems, the Romans then come, and then Jesus is born--the Son of David, the King of kings, the Messiah.

What then begins to unfold is all the fulfillment of what was said, that the Messiah must suffer and then after three days rise again. And so Jesus is betrayed, arrested, and handed over the Gentile rulers--Pilate. He is sentenced to death by crucifixion, and is beaten and mocked and nailed to a cross. And there He bears not only all the shame of Israel, but of the whole world. And He dies. On the third day He rises, defeating death, conquering hell, crushing the devil under His foot--just as promised right there in the Garden so long ago. After forty days He ascends, to take His seat as the enthroned Messiah, for the Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of Days and given everlasting kingdom and dominion, as Daniel had seen in his vision. The enthroned Christ, the Son of David on His throne, rules and reigns with all authority, with kingdom everlasting, over all things. And as He promised, the Holy Spirit was sent and poured out, and see here how the curse of Babel is reversed. For when men sought to ascend to heaven their languages were confused and they were scattered to all the corners of the earth to become the nations; here the Holy Spirit comes down from heaven, and unites the nations through an understanding of languages, that the Gospel might go forth from Jerusalem to the whole world, that all nations should be made disciples, being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and learn the way of Messiah Jesus. For so long ago, too was it promised, that the Gentiles would come to Mt. Zion to worship. And so, now, they shall--for out of Zion comes the Gospel, and to Mt. Zion, the true Zion which is Jesus Christ, come the nations to worship the one true God, and partake of the true sacrifice of His flesh and blood.

See, now, too the promises in the Messiah. For where Adam broke, Christ has healed. Where children murdered, in Christ children are united in peace. Where the nations were broken and scattered, in Christ they are brought together and united together. For what God began through Abraham, and the reason He chose the nation of HIs choosing, was to be a blessing to all nations, and that Abraham should become the father of not just a great nation, but of all nations--through the Messiah. For the Messiah is the Seed of Abraham. So Jew and Gentile, without distinction, are brought together in the Messiah. Elder brothers and younger brothers all alike; and it matters not at what hour of the day the laborers were hired to work the vineyard, all receive the same wage as the Lord Himself has taught us. And now we look forward, to that future day, when Christ returns, to judge the living and the dead. For on that Day the dead shall rise, this mortal shall be made immortal; this corruptible flesh made incorruptible. What is sown soulish is raised Spiritual; what is sown in dishonor is raised in honor. We have born the flesh of Adam, we shall bear the flesh of the Risen Son of God. On that Day, He shall judge. On that Day He will have those on His right and on His left. And when this time comes, God will make all things new, for there shall be new heavens, new earth--the creation itself which from the time of Adam until now has cried out in labor pains longing in the hope of redemption and renewal that is coming shall at long last be freed from its futility of death, and all things shall be made new.

For Adam broke, and Christ heals.
Through the whole Bible this drama is unfolding, it is pushing forward, rushing headlong to Christ. And in Christ all is summed up together, and God, according to His Covenant Faithfulness to His creation shall set all things to rights.

Israel was chosen, for through her would come Christ.
Because Israel was the vehicle of the covenants and the promises and the patriarchs and the prophets; all toward Christ.

And that is not nothing, St. Paul says that is a most excellent thing. But though they have been at the vineyard since daybreak, and we who are Gentiles are now coming at the later hour does not mean ours is a separate wage, a lesser wage, a higher wage, or a different wage. For of two peoples, there is one people. For here, in the Messiah, the Gentile is brought into the commonwealth of Israel, no longer a stranger. That's Scripture, explicit and plain.

If God has some different plan for Jewish Christians than He does for Gentile Christians, then at best God has not seen fit to tell us what it is, for Scripture knows nothing of it. But at worst, it means we cannot trust Scripture, for Scripture speaks of the one unified plan for all in the Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jerry N.

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He could, but Scripture says there is one olive tree with both natural branches and branches grafted on. Scripture says that Jews and Gentiles are, in the Messiah, a single people. Scripture says that all who are in Christ are heirs with Christ.

Scripture also says that Israel was chosen because it's about Jesus. God doesn't have two plans, two peoples, two gospels. There is one story of Redemption. One people of God in the Messiah. One Gospel for the whole world that runs from Genesis onward and is for everyone.

Salvation is not just about what happens after we die, salvation is the entirety of God's rescue project for all of creation.

This gets to the heart of what's happening, meta-level, in the entire Bible. This gets to the heart of what the Gospel even is. This gets right to the heart of everything that's ever happened, is happening, and will happen; from Creation to Eschaton, and World Everlasting.

-CryptoLutheran
We will probably have to agree to disagree. My point is that you are oversimplifying the relationships. Here is an article that sums what I was trying of convey better than I ever could: What is Israel's Role in the End Times?
 
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ViaCrucis

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We will probably have to agree to disagree. My point is that you are oversimplifying the relationships. Here is an article that sums what I was trying of convey better than I ever could: What is Israel's Role in the End Times?

I have edited and expanded on my post, because I wanted to say a lot more and provide a lot of information I think is necessary. I ended up writing a lot more than I expected to, however.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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We will probably have to agree to disagree. My point is that you are oversimplifying the relationships. Here is an article that sums what I was trying of convey better than I ever could: What is Israel's Role in the End Times?

Looking over that article, yes, we will have to agree to disagree. I think the article is full of faulty opinions, conclusion based on conjecture, and imaginative speculation. Rather than solid biblical teaching and good theology. It's also a presentation of the modern state of Israel that is at odds with reality; because the history of the modern state of Israel has involved a great deal of cruelty, brutality, and injustice committed by the state against its Palestinian residents, both Christian and Muslim. If Israel is a witness, then what does Israel's current program of genocide against Gaza bear witness to? And no, I'm not taking Hamas' side--Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. But terrorism from one side does not justify genocide from the other.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jerry N.

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He could, but Scripture says there is one olive tree with both natural branches and wild branches grafted on. Scripture says that Jews and Gentiles are, in the Messiah, a single people. Scripture says that all who are in Christ are heirs with Christ.

Scripture also says that Israel was chosen because it's about Jesus. God doesn't have two plans, two peoples, two gospels. There is one story of Redemption. One people of God in the Messiah. One Gospel for the whole world that runs from Genesis onward and is for everyone.

Salvation is not just about what happens after we die, salvation is the entirety of God's rescue project for all of creation.

This gets to the heart of what's happening, meta-level, in the entire Bible. This gets to the heart of what the Gospel even is. This gets right to the heart of everything that's ever happened, is happening, and will happen; from Creation to Eschaton, and World Everlasting.

It's that everything was broken through Adam. And Adam's progeny bear his brokenness, and indeed, the whole of creation bears the wounds of that sin; for human beings were given the great gift of having dominion over creation, to rule over creation with wisdom, love, peace, as the Image of God--as kings and priests; and that was fumbled, massively. And now everything is broken. That brokenness is repeatedly seen, as we watch Cain murder Abel. As we watch the world become hideous through sin, so God sends a great flood, preserving Noah, his family, and representatives of all the animals. We watch and see man, again, grow arrogant, building a tower to claim heaven, and God breaks their efforts by confusing the languages.

And then God calls an old man and his wife, Abram and Sarai, who will become Abraham and Sarah. He says to them that they would bear a child even at his advanced age, and his wife's barren state--and He keeps that promise. Abraham sired Isaac, and Isaac sired Jacob, and Jacob sired the twelve patriarchs. Then they went into Egypt, where the whole Hebrew people were enslaved. God redeems the nation, taking them from Egypt, gives them the Law and Covenant, and brings them into the land of promise.

The people enter the land and are ruled by their chieftans/judges, but they grow jealous of the nations and desire a king, even though they already have a King, they are ruled by King YHWH, God. So God gives them a king, and he's not very good, but He says He'll give them a different king, and through this shepherd-king will come the King of kings. David's son Solomon then rules, and though wise, and allowed to make a permanent Tabernacle, the Temple in Jerusalem, is nevertheless a man of many problems. After Solomon the nation is divided, north and south. Prophet after prophet comes, warning, pleading, and promising--the word of God comes over and over to warn and to heal. But the north is taken out by Assyria. And then later the south is taken out by Babylon. But in Babylon God continues to remind them of the promises. He will restore them to the land, the Temple will be rebuilt. Though they would no longer be ruled by a king, nevertheless the King of David's line is still come.

They are brought back into the land under the Persians. The Temple is rebuilt along with the city of Jerusalem. But Persia will be conquered by the Macedonians. And the Macedonians will fracture into competing Greek kingdoms. A short-lived independence through the Maccabees occurs; but sets the stage for fractured problems, the Romans then come, and then Jesus is born--the Son of David, the King of kings, the Messiah.

What then begins to unfold is all the fulfillment of what was said, that the Messiah must suffer and then after three days rise again. And so Jesus is betrayed, arrested, and handed over the Gentile rulers--Pilate. He is sentenced to death by crucifixion, and is beaten and mocked and nailed to a cross. And there He bears not only all the shame of Israel, but of the whole world. And He dies. On the third day He rises, defeating death, conquering hell, crushing the devil under His foot--just as promised right there in the Garden so long ago. After forty days He ascends, to take His seat as the enthroned Messiah, for the Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of Days and given everlasting kingdom and dominion, as Daniel had seen in his vision. The enthroned Christ, the Son of David on His throne, rules and reigns with all authority, with kingdom everlasting, over all things. And as He promised, the Holy Spirit was sent and poured out, and see here how the curse of Babel is reversed. For when men sought to ascend to heaven their languages were confused and they were scattered to all the corners of the earth to become the nations; here the Holy Spirit comes down from heaven, and unites the nations through an understanding of languages, that the Gospel might go forth from Jerusalem to the whole world, that all nations should be made disciples, being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and learn the way of Messiah Jesus. For so long ago, too was it promised, that the Gentiles would come to Mt. Zion to worship. And so, now, they shall--for out of Zion comes the Gospel, and to Mt. Zion, the true Zion which is Jesus Christ, come the nations to worship the one true God, and partake of the true sacrifice of His flesh and blood.

See, now, too the promises in the Messiah. For where Adam broke, Christ has healed. Where children murdered, in Christ children are united in peace. Where the nations were broken and scattered, in Christ they are brought together and united together. For what God began through Abraham, and the reason He chose the nation of HIs choosing, was to be a blessing to all nations, and that Abraham should become the father of not just a great nation, but of all nations--through the Messiah. For the Messiah is the Seed of Abraham. So Jew and Gentile, without distinction, are brought together in the Messiah. Elder brothers and younger brothers all alike; and it matters not at what hour of the day the laborers were hired to work the vineyard, all receive the same wage as the Lord Himself has taught us. And now we look forward, to that future day, when Christ returns, to judge the living and the dead. For on that Day the dead shall rise, this mortal shall be made immortal; this corruptible flesh made incorruptible. What is sown soulish is raised Spiritual; what is sown in dishonor is raised in honor. We have born the flesh of Adam, we shall bear the flesh of the Risen Son of God. On that Day, He shall judge. On that Day He will have those on His right and on His left. And when this time comes, God will make all things new, for there shall be new heavens, new earth--the creation itself which from the time of Adam until now has cried out in labor pains longing in the hope of redemption and renewal that is coming shall at long last be freed from its futility of death, and all things shall be made new.

For Adam broke, and Christ heals.
Through the whole Bible this drama is unfolding, it is pushing forward, rushing headlong to Christ. And in Christ all is summed up together, and God, according to His Covenant Faithfulness to His creation shall set all things to rights.

Israel was chosen, for through her would come Christ.
Because Israel was the vehicle of the covenants and the promises and the patriarchs and the prophets; all toward Christ.

And that is not nothing, St. Paul says that is a most excellent thing. But though they have been at the vineyard since daybreak, and we who are Gentiles are now coming at the later hour does not mean ours is a separate wage, a lesser wage, a higher wage, or a different wage. For of two peoples, there is one people. For here, in the Messiah, the Gentile is brought into the commonwealth of Israel, no longer a stranger. That's Scripture, explicit and plain.

If God has some different plan for Jewish Christians than He does for Gentile Christians, then at best God has not seen fit to tell us what it is, for Scripture knows nothing of it. But at worst, it means we cannot trust Scripture, for Scripture speaks of the one unified plan for all in the Messiah.

-CryptoLutheran
Your new edited post is very well written, and I agree with most of it. Here is a passage from the link I sent:

“God had not forsaken the Jewish people nor His covenant giving them the land of Israel as an eternal inheritance. Their survival, return, and national rebirth were profound miracles and a collective witness that God is sovereign, faithful and well-able to fulfill His Word.

In the last 76 years, we’ve seen a sovereign Israel living in the land of promise, and a unified Jewish Jerusalem since 1967. These serve as witnesses to the world that God is preparing the world stage for His Son’s return.”

When Jesus returns, all will be united. However, God has blessed Israel in modern times. What God has blessed, we should support. We should not support what they do that is not right, but we should support what God has blessed.
 
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XrxrX

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We will probably have to agree to disagree. My point is that you are oversimplifying the relationships. Here is an article that sums what I was trying of convey better than I ever could: What is Israel's Role in the End Times?
It is simple though, it becomes "complicated" when you try to supplant the Church with a false "apple of His eye". Paul makes it clear when he states God hasn't "cast them away", not because He was 'preserving a nation state' (70 AD was a pretty clear message on that) but because He had made a Way for them, even beyond their utter and complete destruction, even yet.. they.. Individually.. may come home. "
"In those days they will not say again,
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
But EVERONE will die for His Own iniquity; EACH MAN who eats the sour grapes, HIS teeth will be set on edge..."
 
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Jerry N.

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Looking over that article, yes, we will have to agree to disagree. I think the article is full of faulty opinions, conclusion based on conjecture, and imaginative speculation. Rather than solid biblical teaching and good theology. It's also a presentation of the modern state of Israel that is at odds with reality; because the history of the modern state of Israel has involved a great deal of cruelty, brutality, and injustice committed by the state against its Palestinian residents, both Christian and Muslim. If Israel is a witness, then what does Israel's current program of genocide against Gaza bear witness to? And no, I'm not taking Hamas' side--Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. But terrorism from one side does not justify genocide from the other.

-CryptoLutheran
Please see post #57.
 
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Guojing

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Jesus is calling the vulnerable and least of these "brethren". You're introducing a Jew/Gentile distinction into a text where it doesn't exist.

-CryptoLutheran

I can see that when you interpret Jesus's teachings in his first coming, you prefer not to interpret the meaning, in the context of how his listeners would have understood it.

Alright then, we can agree to disagree.
 
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