By the Law Is the Knowledge of Sin

[Hoping2]

1 John 1:8 takes us back to my postulate... "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1 Jn 1:8).

You can't see that verses 6, 8, and 10, are written of those who walk in darkness-sin ?
Doesn't verse 7 say ALL our sins can be washed away ?
Doesn't verse 9 say that we can be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness ?
Thanks be to God, I now walk in the light, which is God, in whom is no darkness-sin.
If one is in God, the light, there can be no sin on them either.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As you only "quoted" one line, I find your conclusion odd.

This is about keeping every day holy.

Right, as it is Jesus Christ's blood that sanctifies-makes us holy.

Once the sanctifying blood has been applied to us, how can more blood make us more holy ?
Either one is holy, or they are unholy !

Yeah, I think of that every time I deal with those opposed to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Thar is where His sanctifying blood is applied, to the truly repentant.

OK.

If one is still clinging to sin, it shows that their repentance from sin was a lie to God, and worthless.

Actually, v 16-17 are the result of v14, and you have put the cart in front of the horse.
The Law is gone now, and we are to be led by the Spirit.
Following ordinances for thousands of years made nobody holy.
Why keep flogging a dead horse ?
The new way, covenant, testimony, is summed up with...love God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
But keeping only one day a week holy is subterfuge against Christ, who died and rose so we could be holy everyday.

Men of the OT, to whom the Law was given, could not be sanctified permanently.
They needed continual reminders and rites to fulfil in order to be deemed holy by others.
Now, we can be realy holy, and in the eyes of God.

Are you still commanding circumcision too ?

I thank God for the NEW Covenant, wherein man can be holy all the time, without the 400 Laws he is unable to fulfil.

I would answer some of these thing if I thought would make a difference as they are all easy addressed in God's Word.

If one won't listen to God coming down to earth to personally write and speak His holy and eternal law, His own personal testimony Exo 31:18 I know my words won't make a difference.

We are both settled into our beliefs Rev 22:11, it just a matter of Jesus sorting it out.

I wish you well.

 

[Hoping2]

I would answer some of these thing if I thought would make a difference as they are all easy addressed in God's Word.

If one won't listen to God coming down to earth to personally write and speak His holy and eternal law, His own personal testimony Exo 31:18 I know my words won't make a difference.

We are both settled into our beliefs Rev 22:11, it just a matter of Jesus sorting it out.

I wish you well.

The Word coming down to earth said this..."Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matt 22:37-40)
They are to done, every day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Word coming down to earth said this..."Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matt 22:37-40)
They are to done, every day.

Yes and as I proved to you previously, Jesus was quoting OT, the Ten Commandments summarized Deut 6:5 Deut 5:1-6:5 Rom 13:9

 

[Hoping2]

Yes and as I proved to you previously, Jesus was quoting OT, the Ten Commandments summarized Deut 6:5 Rom 13:9

Yep: no more circumcision, no more feast days, no more tithing, no more dietary rules etc.
Praise the Lord !
It is written..."Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?" (Col 2:20-22)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yep: no more circumcision, no more feast days, no more tithing, no more dietary rules etc.
Praise the Lord !
It is written..."Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?" (Col 2:20-22)

No one is talking about commandments of man that we should follow it what I been advocating against. The Ten Commandments are not the commandment of man, God claimed them as His Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13

I can show you where Jesus said we should tithe if I thought it would make a difference, but I do not think it will, so like I said I will agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[BobRyan]

If someone is taking the Lord's name in vain, how can he be perceived as a saint ?

Saved people make mistakes from time to time.

Drunkards get converted and then later slip up and take a drink.

1 John 2:1 points out what our situation is.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

John does not say "if anyone sins after coming to Christ - he was never a Christian to start with"

The idea that one of God's can be deleted as soon as someone does not violate it - is not a Bible principle about the walk of faith.

 

[BobRyan]

Why not just keep every day holy ?
Jesus has made that possible, by His suffering, death, burial, and resurrection.

Remember the Sabbath day to "keep it holy" means this according to scripture
Ex 20:8-10 - no secular work
Is 58:13 no secular activity

But if you refuse to work every day - then the NT says "He who will not work - neither let him eat" 2Thess 3:10

The commandment is not only to refrain from work on the Bible Sabbath - but it is also to work on non-Sabbath days of the week. Be productive in this life.

 

[BobRyan]

Men of the OT, to whom the Law was given, could not be sanctified permanently.

False.

Matt 17 - both Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory - before the cross.

Gal 1:6-8 - the Gospel was the same in the OT as the NT
Gal 3:8 that one and only Gospel "was preached to Abraham

We cannot simply "toy" with God's Word and expect everything to come out just fine. Better to read it and believe it ... no games.
Gal 6:7 "God is not mocked"

If we choose to read God's commandments and simply say "no, not for me" - there are results that are similar to ignoring road signs.

They needed continual reminders and rites to fulfil in order to be deemed holy by others.
Now, we can be realy holy, and in the eyes of God.

Are you still commanding circumcision too ?

Heb 10:4-11 - ceremonial laws end at the cross.

I thank God for the NEW Covenant, wherein man can be holy all the time, without the 400 Laws he is unable to fulfil.

Same here - it OT -- see Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8 reminds us that the OT New Covenant still remains today.

 

[BobRyan]

You can't see that verses 6, 8, and 10, are written of those who walk in darkness-sin ?
Doesn't verse 7 say ALL our sins can be washed away ?
Doesn't verse 9 say that we can be cleansed of ALL unrighteousness ?

Yes but it is not a ticket to ride the open highway of rebellion.

See Romans 6:1-8

Thanks be to God, I now walk in the light, which is God, in whom is no darkness-sin.
If one is in God, the light, there can be no sin on them either.

God does not turn sin into righteousness.

taking God's name in vain is still a sin. It does not become glorious obedience as soon as we are born-again.

Jesus said "NOT EVERYONE who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom" Matt 7.

God says "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified" Rom 2:13

The "good tree" of Matt 7 is known by the good fruits of obedience according to Christ in Matt 7.

"he who HEARS these words of Mine AND DOES them will be like a man who builds his house on a rock" Matt 7

 

[Hoping2]

No one is talking about commandments of man that we should follow it what I been advocating against. The Ten Commandments are not the commandment of man, God claimed them as His Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13

I can show you where Jesus said we should tithe if I thought it would make a difference, but I do not think it will, so like I said I will agree to disagree. All gets sorted out soon enough.

It is written..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." Rom 7:4)
And..."For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God." (Gal 2:19)
Having been freed from the Law, I can now live unto God.

 

[Hoping2]

Saved people make mistakes from time to time.

As salvation will only be granted on the day of judgment, your POV makes no sense.
I have seen plenty of supposedly converted men and women go back to their true masters...sin.

Drunkards get converted and then later slip up and take a drink.

"Taking a drink" is not "getting drunk".

1 John 2:1 points out what our situation is.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

Yes, the righteous have an Advocate that they continue to serve after their petitions through Him.
It is the servants of sin that should seek to use Him.

John does not say "if anyone sins after coming to Christ - he was never a Christian to start with"

He does, however, say that if we walk in sin, (darkness...Pro 4:19)...we cannot say we have fellowship with Him; (1 John 1:6), or that we have no sin, (1 John 1:8), or that we even know Him ! (1 John 2:3-4)

The idea that one of God's can be deleted as soon as someone does not violate it - is not a Bible principle about the walk of faith.

Jesus said that whosoever committeth sin of the servant of sin. (John 8:34)
As He also said "no man can serve two masters", and in fact will despise one over the other, (Matt 6:24), sinners are not "one of God's".

 

[Hoping2]

Remember the Sabbath day to "keep it holy" means this according to scripture
Ex 20:8-10 - no secular work
Is 58:13 no secular activity

But if you refuse to work every day - then the NT says "He who will not work - neither let him eat" 2Thess 3:10

The commandment is not only to refrain from work on the Bible Sabbath - but it is also to work on non-Sabbath days of the week. Be productive in this life.

Then Jesus is lost, as He did "secular" works on the sabbath.
How many times did He say that the sabbath as made for the man, and not that the man was made for the sabbath ?

 

[BobRyan]

Then Jesus is lost, as He did "secular" works on the sabbath.

what "secular work" would that be?
the Gospel accounts do not show him to be doing any work on Sabbath that could not also be done by Jewish priests on Sabbath .

How many times did He say that the sabbath as made for the man, and not that the man was made for the sabbath ?

He said it once in Mark 2:27 indicating that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" Just as in Matt 4 He said "mankind shall not live by bread alone".

And we see the Sabbath "made for mankind" in Gen 2:2-3 and then in Ex 20:11 the Sabbath commandment points explicitly to Gen 2:2-3 where at the conclusion of that week both mankind and the Sabbath were "made".

 

[Hoping2]

False.

Matt 17 - both Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory - before the cross.

If true, then there would have been no need for Christ to suffer and die.

Gal 1:6-8 - the Gospel was the same in the OT as the NT
Gal 3:8 that one and only Gospel "was preached to Abraham
We cannot simply "toy" with God's Word and expect everything to come out just fine. Better to read it and believe it ... no games.
Gal 6:7 "God is not mocked"
If we choose to read God's commandments and simply say "no, not for me" - there are results that are similar to ignoring road signs.
Heb 10:4-11 - ceremonial laws end at the cross.
Same here - it OT -- see Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8 reminds us that the OT New Covenant still remains today.

Are you still circumcising your sons ?
Paul writes..."Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Gal 5:4)

Can't you keep holy, every day of the week ?

 

[BobRyan]

Saved people make mistakes from time to time.

As salvation will only be granted on the day of judgment, your POV makes no sense.
I have seen plenty of supposedly converted men and women go back to their true masters...sin.

AND you have seen people get saved and then "sin" a few times. The point remains.
Their salvation did not get "deleted" because they commit a sin after being saved.

"Taking a drink" is not "getting drunk".

But it is making a mistake.
Sin is not limited to full on apostacy and 1 John 2:1 shows the life of the Christian where forgiveness is available even after one becomes a Christian.

Yes, the righteous have an Advocate that they continue to serve after their petitions through Him.

which is why it is so helpful to note that sin can be forgiven even after someone becomes a Christian. And so we note that it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain - even if a Christian does it. Rather than concluding that the command to not take God's name in vain gets deleted once someone is saved.

Drunkards get converted and then later slip up and take a drink.

1 John 2:1 points out what our situation is.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

John does not say "if anyone sins after coming to Christ - he was never a Christian to start with"
The idea that one of God's can be deleted as soon as someone does not violate it - is not a Bible principle about the walk of faith.

 

[Hoping2]

Yes but it is not a ticket to ride the open highway of rebellion.

Of course not.
It is, however, notice that we can stay on the road of deliverance !

See Romans 6:1-8
God does not turn sin into righteousness.

Of course He doesn't

taking God's name in vain is still a sin. It does not become glorious obedience as soon as we are born-again.

Those who renege on their repentance from sin were not born again.
They have failed to "measure the cost" of their faith in Christ.

Jesus said "NOT EVERYONE who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom" Matt 7.

Who did He say would not enter ?
Workers of iniquity !
Sinners !

God says "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just - but the DOERS of the LAW will be justified" Rom 2:13
The "good tree" of Matt 7 is known by the good fruits of obedience according to Christ in Matt 7.
"he who HEARS these words of Mine AND DOES them will be like a man who builds his house on a rock" Matt 7

Amen to that !
The "words" Jesus refers to are these...Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[BobRyan]

If true, then there would have been no need for Christ to suffer and die.

How so?

Recall that under the Jer 31:31-34 the Law of God is written on the heart.

Are you still circumcising your sons ?
Paul writes..."Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Gal 5:4)

Paul has Timothy circumcised immediately after the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. That was not to guarantee that Timothy forfeited salvation - as it turns out.

In Acts 21 Paul takes steps to PROVE "walks orderly keeping the law" and makes it clear that those who falsely accused him of telling Jews not to circumcise their children - were engaged in lying against him.

The Gal 5:4 statement by Paul was written specifically to gentiles who were convinced by Judaizers of the Acts 15:1-2 false theology stateing that gentiles had to be become Jews "in order to be saved". That was not a doctrine in OT or NT and in fact was simply "made up stuff"

Can't you keep holy, every day of the week ?

We can't make every day Sabbath following God's Word in Ex 20:8-11 where we are told to work 6 days and rest the 7th day ... to the point of no secular work Is 58:13 -- since even the NT says that he who does not work should not eat.

 

[Hoping2]

what "secular work" would that be?
the Gospel accounts do not show him to be doing any work on Sabbath that could not also be done by Jewish priests on Sabbath .

I don't think you will find a single Pharisee or scribe who would heal on a sabbath, mush less strip grain for a meal.

He said it once in Mark 2:27 indicating that the "Sabbath was made for mankind" Just as in Matt 4 He said "mankind shall not live by bread alone".

Isn't once enough for you ?

And we see the Sabbath "made for mankind" in Gen 2:2-3 and then in Ex 20:11 the Sabbath commandment points explicitly to Gen 2:2-3 where at the conclusion of that week both mankind and the Sabbath were "made".

Amen, and aren't you glad we can now keep every day holy and devoted to Him, since Jesus' death and resurrection ?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

Matt 17 - both Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory - before the cross.

If true, then there would have been no need for Christ to suffer and die.

Matt 17:
Six days later Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

Luke 9:28 Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. 30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him.

Because as Gal 1:6-9 says - there is only ONE Gospel - OT and NT
Gal 3:8 that one Gospel was "preached to Abraham"
That New Covenant - is OLD TESTAMENT Jer 31:31-34 and is unchanged in the New Testament -- see Heb 8.

"Saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10 -- that is it - no other gospel.
Same thing for the OT according to Peter in Acts 10:42-43