• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Spanish Inquisiton

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I believe your post is in error. The Catholic Church did not force conversions. The inquisition was started to root out imposters.
Catholics were subject to the inquisition
Those that publicly professed another faith were not.
Secular authorities may have made professing another faith unacceptable, but that was not the intent of the inquisition. Reporters of history have conflated it with stories of torture devices that were never used and Church officials terrorizing people that just wanted to read their bibles, but it is not true.

It is only modern society that teaches there are multiples versions of Christianity, but it is not true
There is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Call it evil if you want, that is your prerogative, but your feelings do not make it true, and you will answer to God for your choice.
Is Christ divided? God forbid!
I see a few problems with your post my friend. First of all I just want to say that what the church did hundreds of years in the past does not reflect the behavior of the church today. The church didn’t have the authority to arrest, imprison, torture, or execute anyone for the crime of committing heresy. Even the Roman Catholic Church admits that these things did take place. I never said anything about torture methods, no method of torture is justified for committing heresy. There were countless people who were labeled as heretics in the early church who were not arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or executed. As for secular governments insisting that their citizens accept Catholicism, the church should’ve been the one to correct them by telling them that Christianity can’t be forced upon someone and the church should’ve refused to participate in anyone’s punishment for refusing to convert. The church isn’t responsible for what secular governments do, but it is responsible for what the church does.

As for your statement “there is One Lord, one faith, and one baptism” but there wasn’t one church at that time, was there? The inquisitions began 130 years after Rome had schismed from the rest of the apostolic churches. So there was more than one Christian church during the time of the inquisitions with differing versions of Christianity. Even today those churches are still not in communion with one another and still reject each other’s doctrines and theology.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,514
8,177
50
The Wild West
✟757,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Yes, of course, all historical accounts of supposed abuses by Roman Catholics are just a bunch of bigoted garbage.

Strawman fallacy - I never said that or anything of the sort. I have consistently called for accurate reports of the Inquisition, without exaggeration and with recognition of the equally unpleasant history of Protestant violence against Roman Catholics. And in response, you make a logically fallacious mischaracterization of my argument.

If I had suggested that the Roman Catholics were blameless, which I did not, I would be in as much error as people who falsely accuse them of various crimes of which they are innocent.

Additionally, regarding the Albigensians, the Albigensian Crusade was a moral attrocity, and it was against the spirit of what St. Dominic Guzman had set out to do (his goal was to convert the Albigensians and not to kill them, but those who took over the Order of Preachers he founded, the Dominicans, decided to just burn the Albigensians at the stake and preach to Catholics instead because that was easier, apparently). That being said, the Albigensians and Cathars were not Protestants but adherents of a dualist religion similar to Manichaeism.

This does not change the nature of the crime against them committed by Roman Catholics or abrogate the guilt of the Roman church, but it does invalidate conspiracy theories of the Landmark Baptists and Adventists who supposed that there were people since the beginning who agreed with their specific theology (which originated in the 16th and 19th century, respectively) that had comprised various groups which in fact did not share these beliefs, for instance, the Vaudois (Waldensians), who were in some respects similar to later Protestants, to the point where those who survived the Piedmont Easter joined with the Calvinists in Geneva, some migrating to the US and others returning to Italy and becoming what is now the main Protestant church in that country, and the Albigensians and other groups such as the Paulicians (who were actually not persecuted by the Roman Catholics as they lived predominantly in Armenia, with some migrating to Bulgaria and Romania), where we have surviving texts describing their beliefs, which are not Protestant (nor Catholic). The last adherents of the later sect voluntarily and without coercion were persuaded to convert to the Armenian Apostolic Church in the 19th century (after, I would note, the annexation of Armenia by the Russians; the Armenian church was not the official state church and Tsarist Russia was not entirely happy with its existence, to put it mildly).
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,514
8,177
50
The Wild West
✟757,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
As for your statement “there is One Lord, one faith, and one baptism” but there wasn’t one church at that time, was there? The inquisitions began 130 years after Rome had schismed from the rest of the apostolic churches. So there was more than one Christian church during the time of the inquisitions with differing versions of Christianity. Even today those churches are still not in communion with one another and still reject each other’s doctrines and theology.

That is correct, although in the case of the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, a state of limited intercommunion exists in the form of the ecumenical agreements between the Syriac Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox, and to a lesser extent between the Coptic Orthodox and the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria, and also there are very warm relations between the Armenians and the Eastern Orthodox at present, with many Eastern Orthodox patriarchates having services to commemorate both the 100th and 110th anniversary of the genocide against the Armenians, with Armenian Apostolic bishops in attendance. Of course in the US and elsewhere there are a number of people who wish to frustrate this, particularly in the Greek church, such as Dr. Nicholas Marinides, and Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus in the Church of Greece has engaged in hate speech against the Copts (as well as the Jews) for which he should have been deposed. Indeed I think I might add a call to depose him to my signature.

At any rate I am personally enraged by those who would rekindle the schisms which are finally being extinquished through the shared bloodshed of Syriac Orthodox and Antiochian Orthodox Christians in Syria. They are violating the instructions of St. Clement, who taught that schism is worse than heresy.
 
Upvote 0
Jun 26, 2003
8,831
1,497
Visit site
✟299,107.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
I see a few problems with your post my friend. First of all I just want to say that what the church did hundreds of years in the past does not reflect the behavior of the church today. The church didn’t have the authority to arrest, imprison, torture, or execute anyone for the crime of committing heresy. Even the Roman Catholic Church admits that these things did take place. I never said anything about torture methods, no method of torture is justified for committing heresy. There were countless people who were labeled as heretics in the early church who were not arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or executed. As for secular governments insisting that their citizens accept Catholicism, the church should’ve been the one to correct them by telling them that Christianity can’t be forced upon someone and the church should’ve refused to participate in anyone’s punishment for refusing to convert. The church isn’t responsible for what secular governments do, but it is responsible for what the church does.

As for your statement “there is One Lord, one faith, and one baptism” but there wasn’t one church at that time, was there? The inquisitions began 130 years after Rome had schismed from the rest of the apostolic churches. So there was more than one Christian church during the time of the inquisitions with differing versions of Christianity. Even today those churches are still not in communion with one another and still reject each other’s doctrines and theology.
I see the intent of your post but do not accept its conclusions. You do not seems to grasp what I am saying

There is only one Church. Denominations are man made and do not come from God. When Christ calls us, the scripture does not say, “If any may come after me, let him pick and chose and carefully consider how he is going to follow me”

That is absurd


The scripture says, if any man come after me let him deny his very self and begin to follow in my footsteps.
We do not chose God, God calls us.
All denominations came from a man that refused to deny himself and follow Christ. He said that He knew better and made the charge that God’s Church is gone, even though Jesus Himself promised that the gates of hell would not prevail.
Those men made the charge against God’s Church and went their own way, like sheep that have gone astray.
God’s Church is one, holy, Catholic and apostolic. For the same reason we are not polytheists, neither are we polyecclessiists.
God shapes us in His image, we do not recreate Him in ours

If we do insist on denominations, then we are not denying ourselves and following Jesus. We are straying from Jesus and dragging others to follow us. There is no other explanation
Yes I know self denial is hard and it requires complete embarrassment and humility, but there is no other Church founded by Christ that has apostolic succession and the barque of Peter upon whom Christ founded His Church.
My flesh and my pride does not like it, I used to think that I knew better and the Catholic Church does stupid things, but when I followed Jesus command, denied myself and took up my cross, He gave me such an outpouring of grace that I could not deny it. I could no longer sin mortally that was so easy to do before, even though I claimed to have faith in Jesus. When I offered God real humility, He gave me real grace. Grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but the power to forsake it, even forsake all and follow Him. I only received the power to do that when I submitted my entire self to the authority of His Church, not just start going to a Catholic Church, but actually submit with full faith. He continues to bless me more and more as I follow Him. I will not turn back

Believers today do not share the same sin as those that originally rebelled, but I still see something missing in the denominations. It is the lack of submission, and I even see this in many Catholics. They all hold something back and as a consequence cannot live the fullness of faith. There will always be some sin that besets them.
Sin is the thing that we can chose, and there are many choices and varieties more like baskin Robbin’s 31 flavors. There are more nuances but sin gives you the basic seven flavors of pride, lust , envy, wrath, greed, gluttony and sloth

There are many sins but only One God and He has One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. God does love variety and His Church is not generic. It is a body of Christ, not the collective hive of Christ. The Body has many members of all nations, tribes and tongues, yet we all submit to the Chair of Peter as Christ commanded.
The Catholic Church is also the only one to give proper honor to Mary as the scripture says behold thy mother. We enter the kingdom as little children in complete self denial.
 
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes I know self denial is hard and it requires complete embarrassment and humility, but there is no other Church founded by Christ that has apostolic succession and the barque of Peter upon whom Christ founded His Church.
Really? Because the church in Antioch was also established by Peter and Paul, just like the church in Rome, and the apostles left successors in every single church they planted before going onto another location. In fact the church in Antioch was established before the church in Rome according to the scriptures. And yet these two apostolic churches with a line of succession going all the way back to Peter are not in communion with one another. You really need to study your church history my friend because before the schism of 1054 the church was governed by 5 head bishops known as the pentarchy. They were the bishop of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Constantinople, and Rome. Each bishop governed the churches in their jurisdiction, and when the bishop of Rome tried to insist that all of the churches must submit to his authority they all excommunicated Rome and adopted the name the Orthodox Church. So all of these bishops with the exception of the bishop of Constantinople had a line of apostolic succession going back to the apostles. So this claim that you’re making about Rome having the only the apostolic line of succession going all the way back to Peter only works on those who don’t know their church history. People hear this claim by Rome and they think it makes sense because they don’t know that it’s not an actual fact, it’s just an unsupported claim. As much as I hate to say it, the inquisitions prove that apostolic succession doesn’t guarantee papal infallibility since it was the bishop of Rome who initially sanctioned the inquisitions in 1184AD in France. And afterwards another 99 popes allowed it to continue for another 686 years before it was finally abolished. That’s quite a gap in the line of succession when you have 99 consecutive popes sanctioning the forced conversion of unbelievers. Rome is just another denomination just like all the rest.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The scripture says, if any man come after me let him deny his very self and begin to follow in my footsteps.
We do not chose God, God calls us.
All denominations came from a man that refused to deny himself and follow Christ.
No this is incorrect as well. There are many people in many different denominations who strive to do their very best to follow Christ’s teachings. Do you honestly think that only Roman Catholics try to follow Christ? Surely I hope not. And the calling is to everyone. “And when I am lifted up, I will draw all men to Myself”.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If we do insist on denominations, then we are not denying ourselves and following Jesus. We are straying from Jesus and dragging others to follow us.
Each person must study the scriptures for himself and decide which church is teaching the truth of God’s word. To do otherwise is just blindly following whatever someone else tells you to believe instead of going straight to the source of God’s word.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
My flesh and my pride does not like it, I used to think that I knew better and the Catholic Church does stupid things, but when I followed Jesus command, denied myself and took up my cross, He gave me such an outpouring of grace that I could not deny it. I could no longer sin mortally that was so easy to do before, even though I claimed to have faith in Jesus. When I offered God real humility, He gave me real grace. Grace is not just forgiveness of sin, but the power to forsake it, even forsake all and follow Him. I only received the power to do that when I submitted my entire self to the authority of His Church, not just start going to a Catholic Church, but actually submit with full faith. He continues to bless me more and more as I follow Him. I will not turn back
That’s wonderful my friend that you have received sanctification in the Roman Church, but I assure you that sanctification isn’t only found in the RCC.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The Body has many members of all nations, tribes and tongues, yet we all submit to the Chair of Peter as Christ commanded.
Christ never gave such a commandment.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,514
8,177
50
The Wild West
✟757,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Each person must study the scriptures for himself and decide which church is teaching the truth of God’s word. To do otherwise is just blindly following whatever someone else tells you to believe instead of going straight to the source of God’s word.

Also the early church fathers, for example, Canons 6 and 7 of the Council of Nicaea explicitly declare that the churches of Alexandria and Antioch, and Jerusalem, have the same rights privileges of Rome, and a later canon declared that Constantinople and Cyprus also were autocephalous (and in the case of Cyprus, it always had been, it was never under control of the Roman Church).

The whole idea of Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility simply isn’t found in the early Church, aside from a few isolated instances where a Roman bishop tried to overstep their authority, specifically Archbishop Victor of Rome (he was not styled Pope), who tried to force the churches in Asia Minor to adopt the Roman system of calculating the date of Easter and was rebuked for this by St. Irenaeus the bishop of Lyons. The fact that St. Irenaeus could rebuke the bishop of Rome by itself speaks volumes. Bishops who criticized Pope Francis found it a career-limiting move, for instance, Raymond Cardinal Burke (who would make a very good Pope, by the way).
 
  • Informative
Reactions: BNR32FAN
Upvote 0

jas3

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2023
1,259
901
The South
✟87,881.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So all of these bishops with the exception of the bishop of Constantinople had a line of apostolic succession going back to the apostles.
Your post is mostly correct, but to clarify, apostolic succession refers to the way by which a man becomes a bishop, not the see he occupies after becoming a bishop. When Roman Catholics say that the pope is the "successor of Peter," they're not referring to apostolic succession, but to the see he occupies. In the writings of the Church Fathers, there's also mention of other bishops being successors of Peter in the sense that St. Peter was the prototypical bishop, but this also is independent of apostolic succession. So the patriarch of Constantinople has always had apostolic succession, regardless of the origin of the see, although I've seen it claimed that the see of Constantinople originated with St. Andrew - @The Liturgist would know more about this claim than I do.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,514
8,177
50
The Wild West
✟757,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
although I've seen it claimed that the see of Constantinople originated with St. Andrew - @The Liturgist would know more about this claim than I do.

That’s right, because St. Andrew the First-Called was the Apostle to the Northwest and thus the first to preach the Gospel in Byzantium, and is also venerated in Russia, Ukraine and Scotland , whereas St. Peter and St. Paul were the Apostles to the Mediterranean and Rome, St. John the Beloved Disciple largely focused on Asia Minor and Ephesus, except when he was exiled to Patmos, St. Bartholomew went to Armenia where he was flayed, St. James the Great was martyred in Jerusalem along with St. James the Just, the son of Joseph, and St. Thomas was the Apostle to the Aramaic speaking people along the trade route linking Judaea with India overland, together with St. Addai (Thaddeaus, but not the St. Thaddeus of the Twelve but one from the Seventy) and St. Mari also of the Seventy, evangelizing the church in Edessa, Mesopotamia, and Kerala, India, which had a Jewish population since around 200 AD, the Kochin Jews, but we know St. Thomas also preached to gentiles from the ethnic composition of the Syriac churches. He was martyred in 53 AD when a Maharaja threw a spear at him. As for St. Andrew the First Called, he was famously crucified on an X-shaped cross, and his brother St. Peter at his own request was crucified upside down (thus Satanists who try to use an inverted cross as an anti-Christian symbol engage in pure self-defeating idiocy, but that’s what Satanism is in general).
 
  • Like
Reactions: jas3
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
25,846
8,376
Dallas
✟1,087,715.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Your post is mostly correct, but to clarify, apostolic succession refers to the way by which a man becomes a bishop, not the see he occupies after becoming a bishop. When Roman Catholics say that the pope is the "successor of Peter," they're not referring to apostolic succession, but to the see he occupies. In the writings of the Church Fathers, there's also mention of other bishops being successors of Peter in the sense that St. Peter was the prototypical bishop, but this also is independent of apostolic succession. So the patriarch of Constantinople has always had apostolic succession, regardless of the origin of the see, although I've seen it claimed that the see of Constantinople originated with St. Andrew - @The Liturgist would know more about this claim than I do.
That’s interesting, I wasn’t aware of who planted the church in Constantinople.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Amo2

Active Member
Feb 3, 2024
236
62
64
Campobello
✟22,856.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I believe your post is in error. The Catholic Church did not force conversions. The inquisition was started to root out imposters.
Catholics were subject to the inquisition
Those that publicly professed another faith were not.
Secular authorities may have made professing another faith unacceptable, but that was not the intent of the inquisition. Reporters of history have conflated it with stories of torture devices that were never used and Church officials terrorizing people that just wanted to read their bibles, but it is not true.

It is only modern society that teaches there are multiples versions of Christianity, but it is not true
There is one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Call it evil if you want, that is your prerogative, but your feelings do not make it true, and you will answer to God for your choice.
Is Christ divided? God forbid!

20. The next year (A.D. 325) Constantine convened at Nice the first general council of the Catholic Church, presided over its deliberations, and enforced its decrees. The following year (A.D. 326) he went to Rome to celebrate in that city the twentieth year of his accession to the office of emperor, and while there, in the month of April, and wholly in jealous tyranny, he had his son Crispus murdered. Crispus was his eldest son, who had assisted in his wars, especially with Licinius, and had proved himself aable commander. He commanded the fleet at the siege of Byzantium, and after the battle the names of Constantine and Crispus were united in the joyful acclamations of their Eastern subjects. This excited the jealousy of Constantine, who soon began to slight Crispus, and bestow imperial favors upon his younger son, Constantius, who was but a mere boy. Constantine pretended that Crispus had entered into a conspiracy against him, and Oct. 21, 325, he issued an edict restoring the order of delators, after the manner of Tiberius and Domitian. "By all the allurements of honors and rewards, he invites informers of every degree to accuse without exception his magistrates or ministers, his friends or his most intimate favorites, protesting, with a solemn asseveration, that he himself will listen to the charge." - Gibbon.



ROME - THE UNION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

If the mutual flattery of Constantine and the bishops had concerned only
themselves, it would have been a matter of very slight importance indeed;
but this was not so. Each side represented an important interest.
Constantine merely represented the State, and the bishops the church; and
their mutual flattery was only the covering of a deep-laid and far-reaching
scheme which each party was determined to work to the utmost, for its
own interests. "It was the aim of Constantine to make theology a branch of

politics; it was the hope of every bishop in the empire to make politics a
branch of theology." - Draper.


“Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus to the Heretics:
Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians,
Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called
Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by
means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood
and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your
doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the
healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the
prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in
league with destruction! All your counsels are opposed to the truth,
but familiar with deeds of baseness, fit subjects for the fabulous
follies of the stage; and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the
innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever
trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with
defilement; ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly
wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of
day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to
speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and
leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the
catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are
they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And,
indeed, it is well to turn one’s ears and eyes from such a subject,
lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and
freshness of one’s own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear
with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency
is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this
pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of
so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure?
“Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your
pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none
of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We
have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in
which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies; and our care in
this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your
superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in

any private house or place whatsoever. LET THOSE OF YOU,
THEREFORE, WHO ARE DESIROUS OF EMBRACING THE TRUE AND
PURE RELIGION, TAKE THE FAR BETTER COURSE OF ENTERING THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND UNITING WITH IT IN HOLY FELLOWSHIP,
WHEREBY YOU WILL BE ENABLED TO ARRIVE AT THE

KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. In any case the delusions of your
perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with, and
mar the felicity of, our present times; I mean the impious and
wretched double-mindedness of heretics and schismatics. FOR IT IS
AN OBJECT WORTHY OF THAT PROSPERITY WHICH WE ENJOY
THROUGH THE FAVOR OF GOD, TO ENDEAVOR TO BRING BACK
THOSE WHO IN TIME PAST WERE LIVING IN THE HOPE OF FUTURE
BLESSING, FROM ALL IRREGULARITY AND ERROR TO THE RIGHT
PATH, FROM DARKNESS TO LIGHT, FROM VANITY TO TRUTH,


FROM DEATH TO SALVATION. And in order that this remedy may be
applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said)
that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your
superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be
worthy of the name) which belong to heretics, AND THAT THESE BE
MADE OVER WITHOUT DELAY TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH; that
any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility
whatever be left for any future gathering, in order that from this day
forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear
in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”


5. Some of the penal regulations of this edict “were copied from the edicts
of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same
bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights

of humanity.” - Gibbon.


38. In the establishment of the Ecclesiastical Empire, Justinian holds the
like place that Constantine and Theodosius occupy in the establishment of
the Catholic Church.
"Among the titles of greatness, the name 'Pious' was
most pleasing to his ears; to promote the temporal and spiritual interests of
the Church was the serious business of his life; and the duty of father of his
country was often sacrificed to that of defender of the faith." - Gibbon.


41. In the year 532, Justinian issued an edict declaring his intention "to
unite all men in one faith."
Whether they were Jews, Gentiles, or
Christians, all who did not within three months profess and embrace the
Catholic faith, were by the edict "declared infamous, and as such excluded
from all employments both civil and military; rendered incapable of leaving
anything by will; and all their estates confiscated, whether real or
personal." As a result of this cruel edict, "Great numbers were driven from
their habitations with their wives and children, stripped and naked. Others
betook themselves to flight, carrying with them what they could conceal,
for their support and maintenance; but they were plundered of what little
they had, and many of them inhumanly massacred." - Bower.


54. Belisarius dispatched to Justinian the news of his victory. "He received
the messengers of victory at the time when he was preparing to publish the
Pandects of the Roman law; and the devout or jealous emperor celebrated
the divine goodness and confessed, in silence, the merit of his successful
general. Impatient to abolish the temporal and spiritual tyranny of the
Vandals, he proceeded, without delay, to the full establishment of the
Catholic Church. Her jurisdiction, wealth, and immunities, perhaps the
most essential part of episcopal religion, were restored and amplified with a
liberal hand;
the Arian worship was suppressed, the Donatist meetings
were proscribed; and the Synod of Carthage, by the voice of two hundred
and seventeen bishops, applauded the just measure of pious retaliation." -
Gibbon.


THE CODE OF OUR LORD THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN.

SECOND EDITION.

BOOK 1.

TITLE 1.

CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM.​

1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople.

We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity.

(1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven.
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Barshai
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
5,427
2,242
Poway
✟374,526.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican

MOD HAT ON

This thread is being reopened, but please read this post!

While it may be that previous posts were posted out of considerable ignorance and simply intending to post instances of the Catholic Church threatening to kill those who did not convert to Catholicism, those posts have neglected some important historical context that is offensive to Orthodox Christians here at CF.

The actions of the Emperor Constantine posted were a historical response to a non-Christian heresy called Arianism. Arianism is a non-Trinitarian heresy that believes that Christ Jesus was a created being. Here at Christian Forums, we do not allow posts in support of Arianism, because Arianism does not believe in the Trinity. By posting those historical proclamations, these posts are making their posters look like they believe that Arians are indeed Christians, which violates this rule:
CF Terms and Rules said:
Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums. Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs.
Further, under the rule of Constantius II, successor to Constantine, Orthodox Christians (who believed in the Trinity) were killed by the Arians. Therefore, posts in support of Arianism are also not permitted under this rule:
CF Terms and Rules said:
Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
Suggesting that the Orthodox deserved to be killed historically is incredibly disrespectful, to say the least. People may not have known that, but now you do know.​

Therefore, posts in support of Arianism and against Orthodox Christians are NOT allowed, in this thread or anywhere else at CF. All such posts will be removed.​

Further posts here need to get out of Constantinople and back to Spain, and show respect for different Christian denominational viewpoints on history even as you disagree and debate those viewpoints.

MOD HAT OFF

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Amo2

Active Member
Feb 3, 2024
236
62
64
Campobello
✟22,856.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Having provided the information and or history at issue being addressed I do believe, let me state that it was not my intention to offend, but only to address historical facts which seemed to be being denied on this thread. It was not my intention to be addressing the issues regarding the trinity, but rather the great mistake as I see it, of uniting church and state unto a political form of “Christianity” which cannot escape becoming a friend of this world. Becoming entangled with the political intrigues of the unconverted in their struggles for ungodly power over and above there brothers and sisters.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

How much more friendly with the world can Christianity become, than being directly entangled in the unending political conflicts and strivings for supremacy of the varying governments of this world? This by unhealthy and spiritually adulterous relations with the kings and rulers of this world, revealed as such in holy scripture. Israel was called to be separate from the powers that be of this world in adulterous relations with the pagan nations around them, which always resulted in apostasy. Just so has New Covenant Israel been warned against seeking or accepting such power in unity with the kings and rulers of this earth. Which spiritually represents abandoning the power of the Holy Spirit of God by way of personal conviction and conversion, in favor of state or national mandates unto dead legalism, and the resulting apostasies which follow.

Jhn 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come………………



Regardless of who was right or wrong in the Trinitarian controversies which became so divisive and even violent among professing Christians that an earthly Emperor had to step in to solve the matter, the end result was a unholy combined and enforced church and state. A condition of this world, lying completely outside of the narrative of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ Jesus our Lord and His Apostles. Henceforth involving a professed form of Christianity in intricate relationships with the kings and leaders of this earth, and the corrupting influence of the earthly powers that be, which come along with all such. Not to mention the endless struggles to gain or maintain superiority between contending parties, now including professed “Christians” involved in the same. As afore mentioned, almost always ending in apostasy and or persecution of dissenting religious views.

The following observations being some of the immediate detrimental effects of calling for and or allowing of earthly government involvement and or control of professed “Christianity”.

Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law :

"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879

Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words, "First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate, paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops, were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal religion was created.

Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally, a new religion." ( Milman - History of Christianity, book 3, chap. 1, par. 1 )The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 361 )

“The Catholic Church demanded assistance in her ambitious aim to make her power and authority absolute over all; and for Constantine’s purposes it was essential that the church should be a unit. These two considerations combined to produce results both immediate and remote, that proved a curse to the time then present and to ages to follow. The immediate result was that Constantine had no sooner compassed the destruction of Licinius in A.D. 323, than he issued an edict against the Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, Cataphrygians, and “all who devised and supported heresies by means of private assemblies,” denouncing them and their heresies, and commanding them all to enter the Catholic Church. The edict runs as follows: —

“Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus, to the heretics: Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in league with destruction: All your counsels are opposed to the truth, but familiar with deeds of baseness; fit subjects for the fabulous follies of the stage: and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with defilement: ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And indeed it is well to turn one’s ears and eyes from such a subject, lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and freshness of one’s own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure? “Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion, take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church, and uniting with it in holy fellowship, whereby you will be enabled to arrive at the knowledge of the truth. In any case, the delusions of your perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with and mar the felicity of our present times; I mean the impious and wretched doublemindedness of heretics and schismatics. For it is an object worthy of that prosperity which we enjoy through the favor of God, to endeavor to bring back those who in time past were living in the hope of future blessing, from all irregularity and error, to the right path, from darkness to light, from vanity to truth, from death to salvation. And in order that this remedy may be applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said), that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be worthy of the name) which belong to heretics, and that these be made over without delay to the Catholic Church; that any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility whatever be left for any future gathering; in order that from this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.” ( Eusebius’s- “Life of Constantine,” book 3, chaps. 64, 65. )

Some of the penal regulations of this edict “were copied from the edicts of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights of humanity.” ( Gibbon- “Decline and Fall,” chap. 21, par. 1. )

The following are more historical quotes, and facts regarding the establishment, or re-establishment of the Church of Rome’s authority. As a political entity of this world, her authority, and influence have continually, and are continually being challenged by others of the same. Of the many books that could be studied, for a more detailed history of her politics, I would recommend the following. The Great Empires of Prophecy, and The Two Republics, both written by Alonzo Jones.

Gratian was but the tool of the bishops. Ambrose was at that time bishop of Milan, and never was episcopal ambition more arrogantly asserted than in that insolent prelate. Soon the mind of the bishop asserted the supremacy over that of the boy emperor, and Ambrose “wielded at his will the weak and irresolute Gratian.” ( Milman- “History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 8, par. 28. )

But above all things else that Gratian did, that which redounded most to the glory of the Catholic Church was his choice of Theodosius as associate emperor. Valens was killed in a battle with the Goths, A.D. 378. A stronger hand than that of a youth of nineteen was required to hold the reins of government in the East. In the establishment of the Catholic Church, the place of Theodosius is second only to that of Constantine. About the beginning of the year 380 he was baptized by the Catholic bishop of Thessalonica, and immediately afterward he issued the following edict: —

It is our pleasure that the nations which are governed by our clemency and moderation, should steadfastly adhere to the religion which was taught by St. Peter to the Romans, which faithful tradition has preserved, and which is now professed by the pontiff Damasus, and by Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness. According to the discipline of the apostles, and the doctrine of the gospel, let us believe the sole deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: under an equal majesty, and a pious Trinity. We authorize the followers of this doctrine to assume the title of Catholic Christians; and as we judge that all others are extravagant madmen, we brand them with the infamous name of “heretics,” and declare that their conventicles shall no longer usurp the respectable appellation of churches. Besides the condemnation of divine justice, they must expect to suffer the severe penalties which our authority, guided by heavenly wisdom, shall think proper to inflict upon them.” ( Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall,” chap. 27, par. 6. )

This law was issued in the names of the three emperors, Gratian, Valentinian II, and Theodosius. “Thus the religion of the whole Roman world was enacted by two feeble boys and a rude Spanish soldier.” ( Milman- “History of Christianity,” book 3, chap. 9, par. 1. )

In the supremacy of the papacy, Justinian holds the same place as does Constantine and Theodosius in the establishment of the Catholic Church. “Among the titles of greatness, the name ‘Pious’ was most pleasing to his ears; to promote the temporal and spiritual interests of the church was the serious business of his life; and the duty of father of his country was often sacrificed to that of defender of the faith.” ( Gibbon - “Decline and Fall,” chap. xlvii, par. 23. )

In the year 532, Justinian issued an edict declaring his intention “to unite all men in one faith.” Whether they were Jews, Gentiles, or Christians, all who did not within three months profess and embrace the Catholic faith, were by the edict “declared infamous, and as such excluded from all employments both civil and military; rendered incapable of leaving anything by will; and all their estates confiscated, whether real or personal.” As a result of this cruel edict, “Great numbers were driven from their habitations with their wives and children, stripped and naked. Others betook themselves to flight, carrying with them what they could conceal, for their support and maintenance; but they were plundered of what little they had, and many of them inhumanly massacred.” ( Bower - “History of the Popes,” Boniface 2, par. 2. )
The point of the above quotes is again, not to take either side of the issues regarding authors personal thoughts regarding Catholicism, Arianism, Orthodoxy, or otherwise. But rather to note, observe, and address the negative issues and outcomes of a united church and state.
 
Upvote 0

linux.poet

Barshai
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
5,427
2,242
Poway
✟374,526.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican

AMBASSADOR HAT

Please get back on topic to discussing the Spanish Inquisition please. If you think that Catholicism being associated or merged with the government in Spain was what contributed to the problems there, you are allowed to post your opinion and back it up with historical research, but it needs to be more firmly tied down to that.

Do not flame Orthodox Christians by suggesting that they needed a secular government to solve their historical problems. The government may have gotten involved there, but we are NOT talking about that in this thread.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
23,665
14,099
59
Sydney, Straya
✟1,414,650.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
20. The next year (A.D. 325) Constantine convened at Nice the first general council of the Catholic Church, presided over its deliberations, and enforced its decrees. The following year (A.D. 326) he went to Rome to celebrate in that city the twentieth year of his accession to the office of emperor, and while there, in the month of April, and wholly in jealous tyranny, he had his son Crispus murdered. Crispus was his eldest son, who had assisted in his wars, especially with Licinius, and had proved himself aable commander. He commanded the fleet at the siege of Byzantium, and after the battle the names of Constantine and Crispus were united in the joyful acclamations of their Eastern subjects. This excited the jealousy of Constantine, who soon began to slight Crispus, and bestow imperial favors upon his younger son, Constantius, who was but a mere boy. Constantine pretended that Crispus had entered into a conspiracy against him, and Oct. 21, 325, he issued an edict restoring the order of delators, after the manner of Tiberius and Domitian. "By all the allurements of honors and rewards, he invites informers of every degree to accuse without exception his magistrates or ministers, his friends or his most intimate favorites, protesting, with a solemn asseveration, that he himself will listen to the charge." - Gibbon.



ROME - THE UNION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

If the mutual flattery of Constantine and the bishops had concerned only
themselves, it would have been a matter of very slight importance indeed;
but this was not so. Each side represented an important interest.
Constantine merely represented the State, and the bishops the church; and
their mutual flattery was only the covering of a deep-laid and far-reaching
scheme which each party was determined to work to the utmost, for its
own interests. "It was the aim of Constantine to make theology a branch of

politics; it was the hope of every bishop in the empire to make politics a
branch of theology." - Draper.


“Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus to the Heretics:
Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians,
Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called
Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by
means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood
and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your
doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the
healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the
prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in
league with destruction! All your counsels are opposed to the truth,
but familiar with deeds of baseness, fit subjects for the fabulous
follies of the stage; and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the
innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever
trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with
defilement; ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly
wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of
day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to
speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and
leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the
catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are
they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And,
indeed, it is well to turn one’s ears and eyes from such a subject,
lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and
freshness of one’s own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear
with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency
is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this
pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of
so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure?
“Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your
pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none
of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We
have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in
which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies; and our care in
this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your
superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in

any private house or place whatsoever. LET THOSE OF YOU,
THEREFORE, WHO ARE DESIROUS OF EMBRACING THE TRUE AND
PURE RELIGION, TAKE THE FAR BETTER COURSE OF ENTERING THE
CATHOLIC CHURCH, AND UNITING WITH IT IN HOLY FELLOWSHIP,
WHEREBY YOU WILL BE ENABLED TO ARRIVE AT THE

KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. In any case the delusions of your
perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with, and
mar the felicity of, our present times; I mean the impious and
wretched double-mindedness of heretics and schismatics. FOR IT IS
AN OBJECT WORTHY OF THAT PROSPERITY WHICH WE ENJOY
THROUGH THE FAVOR OF GOD, TO ENDEAVOR TO BRING BACK
THOSE WHO IN TIME PAST WERE LIVING IN THE HOPE OF FUTURE
BLESSING, FROM ALL IRREGULARITY AND ERROR TO THE RIGHT
PATH, FROM DARKNESS TO LIGHT, FROM VANITY TO TRUTH,


FROM DEATH TO SALVATION. And in order that this remedy may be
applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said)
that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your
superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be
worthy of the name) which belong to heretics, AND THAT THESE BE
MADE OVER WITHOUT DELAY TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH; that
any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility
whatever be left for any future gathering, in order that from this day
forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear
in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public.”


5. Some of the penal regulations of this edict “were copied from the edicts
of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same
bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights

of humanity.” - Gibbon.


38. In the establishment of the Ecclesiastical Empire, Justinian holds the
like place that Constantine and Theodosius occupy in the establishment of
the Catholic Church.
"Among the titles of greatness, the name 'Pious' was
most pleasing to his ears; to promote the temporal and spiritual interests of
the Church was the serious business of his life; and the duty of father of his
country was often sacrificed to that of defender of the faith." - Gibbon.


41. In the year 532, Justinian issued an edict declaring his intention "to
unite all men in one faith."
Whether they were Jews, Gentiles, or
Christians, all who did not within three months profess and embrace the
Catholic faith, were by the edict "declared infamous, and as such excluded
from all employments both civil and military; rendered incapable of leaving
anything by will; and all their estates confiscated, whether real or
personal." As a result of this cruel edict, "Great numbers were driven from
their habitations with their wives and children, stripped and naked. Others
betook themselves to flight, carrying with them what they could conceal,
for their support and maintenance; but they were plundered of what little
they had, and many of them inhumanly massacred." - Bower.


54. Belisarius dispatched to Justinian the news of his victory. "He received
the messengers of victory at the time when he was preparing to publish the
Pandects of the Roman law; and the devout or jealous emperor celebrated
the divine goodness and confessed, in silence, the merit of his successful
general. Impatient to abolish the temporal and spiritual tyranny of the
Vandals, he proceeded, without delay, to the full establishment of the
Catholic Church. Her jurisdiction, wealth, and immunities, perhaps the
most essential part of episcopal religion, were restored and amplified with a
liberal hand;
the Arian worship was suppressed, the Donatist meetings
were proscribed; and the Synod of Carthage, by the voice of two hundred
and seventeen bishops, applauded the just measure of pious retaliation." -
Gibbon.


THE CODE OF OUR LORD THE MOST SACRED EMPEROR JUSTINIAN.

SECOND EDITION.

BOOK 1.

TITLE 1.

CONCERNING THE MOST EXALTED TRINITY AND THE CATHOLIC FAITH AND PROVIDING THAT NO ONE SHALL DARE TO PUBLICLY OPPOSE THEM.​

1. The Emperors Gratian, Valentinian, and Theodosius to the people of the City of Constantinople.

We desire that all peoples subject to Our benign Empire shall live under the same religion that the Divine Peter, the Apostle, gave to the Romans, and which the said religion declares was introduced by himself, and which it is well known that the Pontiff Damascus, and Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic sanctity, embraced; that is to say, in accordance with the rules of apostolic discipline and the evangelical doctrine, we should believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute a single Deity, endowed with equal majesty, and united in the Holy Trinity.

(1) We order all those who follow this law to assume the name of Catholic Christians, and considering others as demented and insane, We order that they shall bear the infamy of heresy; and when the Divine vengeance which they merit has been appeased, they shall afterwards be punished in accordance with Our resentment, which we have acquired from the judgment of Heaven.
You've just posted a wall of text with no references.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Amo2

Active Member
Feb 3, 2024
236
62
64
Campobello
✟22,856.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married

AMBASSADOR HAT

Please get back on topic to discussing the Spanish Inquisition please. If you think that Catholicism being associated or merged with the government in Spain was what contributed to the problems there, you are allowed to post your opinion and back it up with historical research, but it needs to be more firmly tied down to that.

Do not flame Orthodox Christians by suggesting that they needed a secular government to solve their historical problems. The government may have gotten involved there, but we are NOT talking about that in this thread.
Yes, of course my main point was that these kind of "Christian" persecutions, are almost always linked to an improper relationship between government and religion. A good and or Godly government of this New Covenant era, would intercede and prevent the abuse of people for differences of opinion regarding religion, and or a particular professed religion. Or at the very least, allow people to defend themselves from abuse simply because their beliefs differed from those intending to abuse them. A lack of either, clearly reveals an unhealthy relationship between the abusing religion and the existing government. Involving methods of coercion and or force which the holy scriptures simply do not allow for. Which to the contrary, are a blight upon authentic Christianity.

I'll keep my responses in the future focussed on Spains Inquisition. Save one more to address better references for some of my quotes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: linux.poet
Upvote 0