Can Christians be "hateful" or be guilty of "hate speech"?

[Maori Aussie]

Hello Maori, the fact that God chose to love us and save us while we were still sinners is a pretty easy case to make Biblically .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10, but can the same be said about the cliché, "hate the sin, love the sinner"? Is it "absolutely" Biblical? I'm not sure .. e.g. Psalm 5:5, Psalm11:5.

... God bless you!!

--David

John 7​

24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.​

21 Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. 22 Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. 23 Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” 25 At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask, “Isn’t this the man they are trying to kill? 26 Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him. Have the authorities really concluded that he is the Messiah? 27 But we know where this man is from; when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.” John 7 NIV

From the context I would contrast this scenario with the woman caught in adultery. In the adulterous woman's scenario, IMHO Jesus is talking to all of us about judging other people. But, in this context, IMHO Jesus seems to be (only?) talking about himself here. Is Jesus a Sinner breaking the Law, or a Prophet living the Law. Who is this guy? Bless you David!

SOUP-SOAP AND SALVATION

When the Salvation Army Christian Church first started out, someone coined the famous motto, Soup, Soap and Salvation. In fact, I’ve heard people expound

www.preachology.com

 

[St_Worm2]

7:24. In an age when Matthew 7:1 (‘Do not judge, or you too will be judged’) has displaced John 3:16 as the only verse in the Bible the man in the street is likely to know, it is perhaps worth adding that Matthew 7:1 forbids judgmentalism, ~not~ moral discernment.

By contrast, John 7:24 demands moral and theological discernment in the context of obedient faith (7:17), while excoriating self-righteous legalism and offering no sanction for censorious heresy-hunting. ~Carson, D. A. (1991). The Gospel according to John (p. 317). Inter-Varsity Press; W.B. Eerdmans.

Hello again Maori (@Maori Aussie), I agree with you that v24, taken strictly in context, is personal, but its secondary, general meaning is certainly true as well. For instance, we needn't go any further forward from Matthew 7:1 than to Matthew 7:2-6 to understand that v1 is NOT a blanket statement about all judgments, because if it is, then the Lord contradicted Himself twice in the opening six verses

So, the restriction about the judgment/discernment of others that is put forth in v1 is concerned with the 'type' of judgements that we make (that they should be righteous judgments, not hypocritical ones), not that we, as Christians, are to refrain from making judgments altogether!!

Matthew 7​

1 Do not judge lest you be judged. ​

2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. ​

3 And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? ​

4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? ​

5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and ~then~ you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. ​

​

6 Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.​

Here's a short video about Matthew 7:1 and how we are to judge others. I'll also include the link to the article that the video is taken from below. Just FYI, the video text and the article text are identical, so you can watch, listen and/or read it, whichever you prefer if you click on the link.

5 min 36 sec

What does the Bible mean when it says, “Do not judge”? | GotQuestions.org

What does the Bible say about judging others? Does the Bible forbid judging others in all circumstances?

www.gotquestions.org

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - I believe that if our discernments/judgments are made as a means of helping a sinning brother/sister in Christ, as a blessing to others in the church, and to glorify God, then we are making the type of (righteous) judgments that the Lord commands us to make.

 

[St_Worm2]

SOUP-SOAP AND SALVATION

When the Salvation Army Christian Church first started out, someone coined the famous motto, Soup, Soap and Salvation. In fact, I’ve heard people expound

www.preachology.com

Great article, thoughts and admonishments about witnessing/evangelism. Thanks, brother

 

[Maori Aussie]

--David
p.s. - I believe that if our discernments/judgments are made as a means of helping a sinning brother/sister in Christ, as a blessing to others in the church, and to glorify God, then we are making the type of (righteous) judgments that the Lord commands us to make.

NOW I think I can see the "narrow gate" that Jesus talked about. Thank you.

 

[St_Worm2]

NOW I think I can see the "narrow gate" that Jesus talked about. Thank you.

You're welcome, but how so? If you have a moment, please elaborate a bit so that I can understand your meaning (about being able to see the narrow gate).

Thanks again

God bless you!!

--David

 

[Maori Aussie]

You're welcome, but how so? If you have a moment, please elaborate a bit so that I can understand your meaning (about being able to see the narrow gate).

From my perspective, a huge slice of the Church is very comfortably judgemental (Pharisees) , and IMHO tends to preach from condemnation. Then there is a much smaller slice of the Church, which turns judgement off, and focuses on preaching to salvation, rather than from condemnation. Now, you seem to be pointing to a much smaller slice again, which only judges' others in very narrow ('Christ-like'?) way.

 

[St_Worm2]

Ahh, if I am understanding correctly, then yes, that's true.

What do you believe/does your church teach about all of this (if you don't mind me asking)?

Thanks!

Blessings to you in Christ!!

--David
p.s. - I've gotta go, but I hope to return tomorrow, late afternoon or evening (Dv).

 

[Maori Aussie]

Ahh, if I am understanding correctly, then yes, that's true.

What do you believe/does your church teach about all of this (if you don't mind me asking)?

Thanks!

Blessings to you in Christ!!

--David
p.s. - I've gotta go, but I hope to return tomorrow, late afternoon or evening (Dv).

I am at the pointy end of the Salvation Army. I am ex NZ Army (infantry), and my SA team leaders are all ex Australian Army. So the team is very much "objective oriented" (evacuation centres, bushfire support, other disasters as directed). So judgement goes straight out the window head first! That is prescribed in the Ops manual. Every Australian will be treated like everyone else.
But I have bigger plans for "retirement".
Blessings to you in Christ!!

 

[JohnClay]

BTW in Australia at least it seems hate speech laws are usually supported by left wing/progressive parties and are opposed by right wing/conservative parties... (at least the minor parties)

 

[trophy33]

BTW in Australia at least it seems hate speech laws are usually supported by left wing/progressive parties and are opposed by right wing/conservative parties... (at least the minor parties)

Can you quote some hate speech law in Australia, verbatim? So that we know what is being supported or opposed.

 

[JohnClay]

Can you quote some hate speech law in Australia, verbatim? So that we know what is being supported or opposed.

Criminal Code Amendment (Hate Crimes) Act 2025 - Federal Register of Legislation

www.legislation.gov.au

I got the link from this video - which talks about how the good faith defence is gone (regarding satire, etc) at 6:30

 

[trophy33]

Criminal Code Amendment (Hate Crimes) Act 2025 - Federal Register of Legislation

www.legislation.gov.au

The link is not working.

 

[JohnClay]

The link is not working.

It seems to work on my computer. There is also a PDF version:

https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2025A00001/asmade/2025-02-07/text/original/pdf

 

[trophy33]

It seems to work on my computer. There is also a PDF version:

https://www.legislation.gov.au/C2025A00001/asmade/2025-02-07/text/original/pdf

I do not know, I am getting "Error: The request could not be satisfied." for both links.

Anyway, can you quote the parts you disagree with?

 

[HIM]

Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?

Apparently the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is often attributed to St. Augustine, though its exact origins are debated.

What would be described as "hate speech" to one would not be to another.

Is this hate speech,
Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Ps 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

 

[JohnClay]

I do not know, I am getting "Error: The request could not be satisfied." for both links.

Anyway, can you quote the parts you disagree with?

This youtuber talks about some of the problems at 5:24 (I personally don't know much about it)

 

[trophy33]

This youtuber talks about some of the problems at 5:24 (I personally don't know much about it)

I do not trust youtube in this issues. Youtubers want to make money and so exaggerate, lie and manipulate to get views, likes and comments. They are worse than the classic media in this.

It seems nobody in this threat was able to get to the primary source (the laws - either old or the new one) and quote a problematic part. Therefore, it is difficult to form an informed opinion about the situation in Australia.

 

[JohnClay]

I do not trust youtube in this issues. Youtubers want to make money and so exaggerate, lie and manipulate to get views, likes and comments. They are worse than the classic media in this.

It seems nobody in this threat was able to get to the primary source (the laws - either old or the new one) and quote a problematic part. Therefore, it is difficult to form an informed opinion about the situation in Australia.

Actually the part in the video had screenshots of the legislation and was quoting it. It also said they were major changes to the Criminal Code 1995 which it was highlighting (the hate crimes legislation overrided that).

 

[trophy33]

Actually the part in the video had screenshots of the legislation and was quoting it. It also said they were major changes to the Criminal Code 1995 which it was highlighting (the hate crimes legislation overrided that).

So, what parts of the laws do you not agree with or are afraid of? If you trust the youtube video as a credible and actual source.

 

[Maori Aussie]

What do you believe/does your church teach about all of this (if you don't mind me asking)?

I think that I have now heard the Ultimate in non-judgemental Salvation Army sayings.
At the height of Britain's alcoholism epidemic (1870s?), and SA a Temperance Church.
"Come! Drunk or Sober".