Do you believe that Trump has an ACTUAL plan?

[linux.poet]

They're an index fund company.

Index funds are based on computer predictions - it's a group of stocks arranged by machine. They programmed the machines.

Is it ever a good idea (other than when you need to spend it)?

It is when the market is about to totally crash. The dude that sold the day before the crash in 1929 was probably relieved that he made his decision when he did.

 

[loveofourlord]

Frist he is a highly successful businessman starting from a few million from his dad he has flipped that to billions... it speaks for itself.

The big issue is that we have two countries (Russia and China) who are bent on world dominance, add to that Iran who will nuke Israels as soon as they get a nuclear weapon if not several other countries. The tariffs, as he clear pointed out long ago, are a leverage tool which is being used to level the financial playing field of the planet. Right now, we are getting ripped off by pretty much every country we have deals with and we have a $37 trillion deficit. Trump is correcting this. As we have seen, 75 countries are now wanting to make a deal and work with Trump. The stock market while up and down is currently back up. the only real hold out is China who has had the US over a barrel for decades.

What you and others fail to realize is nothing he does or says is totally from the hip... He makes it sound that way so he can bluff if he wants, or use the might of the US to defend his position. He is extremely well organized and is working through a plan that so far is very successful. Two key locations Panama Canal and Greenland. The locations are strategic military locations and right now Russia controls the waterways around greenland and china controls the panama canal, althoug i think the Panama issue may be resolved shortly. If Iran (or any other country) starts a major war russia and china will be involved. This is a constant and serious threat to the US and our interest. China can cut off our medical drugs, as well as steel. We have outsourced our manufacturing (main street) to the world and only the fat cats (wall street) are benefitting, Trump is correcting that.

Remember no one lost anything in the stock market if you didn't sell. No stock broker in their right mind would suggest selling right now. Also if you total up all the 401K plans the middle and lower class America have its only .7% of the money in the stock market.

At a global level the US is repositioning itself as a dominant world power seeking world peace. Trump is using the US Dollars strength to wake the world up and convince everyone to play nicely with each other.

Almost every major thing he has been attacked with has failed whether legal, political, or personal. He is the strongest president we have probably every had and we need one just like him to finish the work. In the end America will be prosperous and free and not being sucked dry buy all the leeching counties.


If you cant see this, I don't know what to tell you. But the fact is he is doing exactly what we elected him to do and at blinding speed.

right the guy that's bankrupted dozens of buisnesses, has lawsuits against him multiple times, made scams, and made alot of his money on his name, is your definition of a highly sucessful buisnessman.

And I don't see it, and neither to the actual economists, not some guy that pretends to be one. The world has lost confidence in the US, and the stock market is flip flopping, but the real damage was to the treasury bonds that were losing value due to people not trusting the dollar, and thats not likely to return any time soon.

 

[eclipsenow]

Frist he is a highly successful businessman starting from a few million from his dad he has flipped that to billions... it speaks for itself.

If you just look at the overall outcome and ignore a lot of the allegations along the way, the bullying, the narcissism, the fact that he practically conned investors out of their money along the way and made sure he was in a position to skim off the top... yeah, he's brilliant! (At scamming investors, defrauding the government of New York, creating a fraudulent university, etc etc etc. Whole podcasts have been devoted to what a con-artist he is!)

The big issue is that we have two countries (Russia and China) who are bent on world dominance,

Yes - so initially he starts of by threatening NATO, abandoning Ukraine, making NATO look weak, humiliating Zelenskyy in the most embarrassing and spiteful display of any western leader, ever.... great start!

Oh THEN he goes and alienates trading partners by ranting about how unfair they all are, threatening huge tariffs, etc.

Crashing the stock market faster than COVID did!

Brilliant! Way to talk up the strength of the NATO alliance and power of the western economy in the face of Russia and China!

What you and others fail to realize is nothing he does or says is totally from the hip...

He does shoot totally from the hip - he cannot control himself!

Over 230 experts explain that Trump has malignant narcissistic personality disorder, rendering him “deceitful, destructive, deluded, and dangerous” as well as “grossly unfit for leadership.”

Their letter explains that malignant narcissists “exhibit a grandiose sense of self import, derive pleasure from causing harm, and are incapable of caring about other people’s feelings.”

Not only that - but the slurring of his words has experts worried about early dementia starting.
More than 230 doctors say Trump is too unstable to be president in open letter

He is extremely well organized and is working through a plan that so far is very successful.

If you want to call alienating every country on earth, crashing the market, and betraying the very values and ideals of western history a 'success'.

Otherwise, it's just chaos.

Unless of course my friend's assertions about insider information to his oligarch mates are correct.
Then there most definitely WAS a plan - to make THEM hundreds of millions - and possibly himself a bit in the mix - just in case he ever needs to pay those pesky New York fraud fees.

Two key locations Panama Canal and Greenland. The locations are strategic military locations and right now Russia controls the waterways around greenland and china controls the panama canal, althoug i think the Panama issue may be resolved shortly.

There's about 100 different ways to deal with these issues without doing everything I've listed above.

If Iran (or any other country) starts a major war russia and china will be involved. This is a constant and serious threat to the US and our interest. China can cut off our medical drugs, as well as steel. We have outsourced our manufacturing (main street) to the world and only the fat cats (wall street) are benefitting, Trump is correcting that.

Then why not continue Biden's IRA? It was stimulating so much domestic investment that battery manufacturing was estimated to increase 15 TIMES by 2030!

Trump's chaos has made it UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE for any rational CEO to invest. Why? Will there be a tariff next week? Who knows? The numbers work now, but some President of some other country might complement Trump's hair style - and then the tariff is down 10% and his investors lose millions!

It's chaos.

And you want to sell it as a plan? Maybe it is - but again - for the oligarchs and himself not America!

Remember no one lost anything in the stock market if you didn't sell.

What kind of sentence is that?
How many people DID sell?
Look at the graph.
How big was the dip?

On the one hand you're saying we should all relax and just 'believe' Trump has a plan.
It's all very Peter Pan - just clap 3 times and say "I do believe in his plan, I do, I DO!"

But the market didn't.
It crashed. Why? Because his 'policies' (brain-blurts) are a chaotic mess and no one can stand up to him right now! They remember the staffing turnover chaos of last time. He burned through 3 times as many staff as any President before him. He thinks it's all a reality TV show - and the ruder and crazier he gets - the more ratings he'll pull in!

It's a disgrace. It's not Presidential - and it's dangerous.

No stock broker in their right mind would suggest selling right now.

Crashing the market to new lows comparable with a 1 in 100 year pandemic event will do that.
Oh - but make sure you're one of Trump's oligarch mates - cause then the plan will be clear! So clear....

At a global level the US is repositioning itself as a dominant world power seeking world peace.

Really? By encouraging Russia to keep marching towards NATO?
If he funded the Ukrainians who are holding the line in the sand by spilling their OWN blood - and not asking us to put boots on the ground for obvious reasons - then I would believe you.

IF the entire western world could be economically certain of our free-trading relationships with each other, and continue the friend-shoring of Biden's years, we could wean off China and still have enough money left over to fund Ukraine.

But Trump destroyed both!

Trump is using the US Dollars strength to wake the world up and convince everyone to play nicely with each other.

Trump is assassinating America's reputation, destroying the the western alliance that grew out of 1945, and weakening our economies.
GOOD JOB!

Almost every major thing he has been attacked with has failed whether legal, political, or personal. He is the strongest president we have probably every had

Ha ha ha! That's why he backed down in terror the moment Nintendo Switch fans complained about how expensive the switch was!

and we need one just like him to finish the work.

What - the job of destroying NATO, America's economy, and the legacy of the enlightenment's respect for science?
Give him time. I'm quite sure he's up to the job!

In the end America will be prosperous and free and not being sucked dry buy all the leeching counties.

Oh boy. Again with this?

“If you think we should do it let’s go. I just hate bailing Europe out again,” Vance reportedly said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...houthis-i-just-hate-bailing-europe-out-again/
It’s sad. He’s drunk the Cool Aid. He genuinely BELIEVES with all his being that Uncle Sam is being ripped off by the 'cost' of NATO! The reality is 105 TIMES the other way around. Past presidents understood this and actively discouraged Europe from developing their own EU Army - or they might not buy American Made!

Europe invests 105 TIMES in American weapons what America invests in NATO.

And note - America's investment in NATO is fundamentally different to Europeans buying American weapons made in America!

American invests in American bases on European soil paying American soldiers American salaries using American kit so that most of the ‘investment’ in NATO actually comes back home anyway! That JD Vance thinks America is being ripped off is just a sad indication of how utterly divorced from reality the whole Trump regime actually is!

 

[NxNW]

Index funds are based on computer predictions - it's a group of stocks arranged by machine. They programmed the machines.

Well, they're a collection of securities selected by certain criteria. The brokerage firms don't create the indexes.

It is when the market is about to totally crash.

Which is pretty much impossible to predict, and even harder to predict when the recovery starts.

The dude that sold the day before the crash in 1929 was probably relieved that he made his decision when he did.

Probably, but did he get back in at the right time?

 

[loveofourlord]

OK then all you want to do is argue about it you cant see the forrest for the trees, you hate trump and have issues... so what i dont. your wrong period. you lost the election get over it.

and your just blindly following him against all the experts own words, we know he's scammed, we know he's bankrupted, hardly a good reason to trust him now, again especially when everyone else says he's wrong.

Give me one good reason we should trust him over the experts.

 

[SimplyMe]

A couple of dumb professors at the state university near me. It was a pretty simple correction for me to make. Christianity does not teach racism, so it’s a “correlation does not imply causation” type fallacy they were making. Since a lot of Europeans were Christians, and a lot of Europeans were racist, they assumed that Christianity caused the racism.

The crusades were about “racism against Islamic people” in their warped framework. They pointed to a selection of historical literature that had negative characterizations of the Arab people. What they forgot was that the Moors were invading Spain at the time. It’s not racist to call an enemy an enemy when you’re actually fighting them.

If you go too deep into believing racism as an ideology, any sort of European expansion outside of Europe is criminal, heaven forbid that any other culture conquer another, express any sense of superiority, or cause each other any inconvenience.

Which Trump doesn’t agree with, considering that he is causing other countries and cultures inconveniences with his tariff plan. It’s pretty obvious that he believes in American superiority at the expense of other countries and cultures. That his guiding philosophy.

Actually, Christianity has taught racism. It was even a major cause in the creation of the Southern Baptist Church (though it did not start there). The original trial judge in Loving v Virginia, the case that the Supreme Court used to invalidate bans on interracial marriage, used the Bible and his Christian faith to explain why miscegenation was illegal and was not UnConstitutional.

Yes, much has changed over the last 50 years but prior to that, since Christ's time, there have been major sects of Christianity that promoted racism. And you still see some today, in both much of the rhetoric against immigrants from Hispanic America and various forms of the Great Replacement Theory.

 

[eclipsenow]

OK then all you want to do is argue about it you cant see the forrest for the trees, you hate trump and have issues... so what i dont. your wrong period. you lost the election get over it.

Get back to me when you have good data that proves THAT I'm wrong, rather than relying on the logical fallacy of trying to psychoanalyse WHY I'm wrong.

Trump's "plan" is to do and say whatever feels right in the moment, as long as he gets to be President. He is chaotic, destructive, and has weakened generations of trust in the strongest military alliance in history. He has far more than spooked the markets. Businesses cannot plan ahead, because they don't know what his next brain blurt will be.

And you try to make this about me? That's a bit rich.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, Christianity has taught racism. It was even a major cause in the creation of the Southern Baptist Church (though it did not start there). The original trial judge in Loving v Virginia, the case that the Supreme Court used to invalidate bans on interracial marriage, used the Bible and his Christian faith to explain why miscegenation was illegal and was not UnConstitutional.

Yes, much has changed over the last 50 years but prior to that, since Christ's time, there have been major sects of Christianity that promoted racism. And you still see some today, in both much of the rhetoric against immigrants from Hispanic America and various forms of the Great Replacement Theory.

The Southern Baptist Church seems like a big deal in the American South, but it's not a "major sect."

The fact that the Southern Baptists were forced to separate themselves from American Baptists (which were opposed to slavery, and itself isn not a "major sect") is evidence that slavery is not a "Christian" doctrine any more than rejection of science is a "Christian" doctrine.

 

[BCP1928]

The Southern Baptist Church seems like a big deal in the American South, but it's not a "major sect."

The fact that the Southern Baptists were forced to separate themselves from American Baptists (which were opposed to slavery) is evidence that slavery is not a "Christian" doctrine any more than rejection of science is a "Christian" doctrine.

The SBC is still the largest Protestant denomination in the US.

 

[timothyu]

As Amw*y will attest

 

[RDKirk]

The SBC is still the largest Protestant denomination in the US.

The Southern Baptist Convention constitutes approximately 0.55% of the global Christian population.

 

[linux.poet]

Actually, Christianity has taught racism. It was even a major cause in the creation of the Southern Baptist Church (though it did not start there). The original trial judge in Loving v Virginia, the case that the Supreme Court used to invalidate bans on interracial marriage, used the Bible and his Christian faith to explain why miscegenation was illegal and was not UnConstitutional.

Yes, much has changed over the last 50 years but prior to that, since Christ's time, there have been major sects of Christianity that promoted racism. And you still see some today, in both much of the rhetoric against immigrants from Hispanic America and various forms of the Great Replacement Theory.

Christians can be taken in by the lies of the world.

It should be sufficient to note The Scriptures I quoted earlier to confirm that racism was not what Our Lord Jesus Christ intended on the earth. That is the most important thing, and it should be sufficient guidance for Christians as we move forward. Christ wants to save people from every “tribe, tongue, people and nation.” That means we need to communicate with people of different skin colors and welcome them to the faith, not treat different people with partiality. James spoke of the need to be impartial in the church, and while he was addressing classism, I think it’s fair to say that about racism as well.

 

[MarkSB]

Christians can be taken in by the lies of the world.

It should be sufficient to note The Scriptures I quoted earlier to confirm that racism was not what Our Lord Jesus Christ intended on the earth. That is the most important thing, and it should be sufficient guidance for Christians as we move forward. Christ wants to save people from every “tribe, tongue, people and nation.” That means we need to communicate with people of different skin colors and welcome them to the faith, not treat different people with partiality. James spoke of the need to be impartial in the church, and while he was addressing classism, I think it’s fair to say that about racism as well.

The "Curse of Ham" was something that was pretty widely preached, wasn't it?
The same with Manifest Destiny - which I would argue, at least in some regard, is still alive and well today.

To be clear: I'm not arguing that racism is encouraged in the NT scriptures. But I would agree that it is a part of the culture in some church denominations, like the SBC.

 

[RDKirk]

The "Curse of Ham" was something that was pretty widely preached, wasn't it?

No. I was confined to a relatively small number of people in the southeast US after 1830.

The same with Manifest Destiny - which I would argue, at least in some regard, is still alive and well today.

That was never taught as Church doctrine. That was a political stance.

To be clear: I'm not arguing that racism is encouraged in the NT scriptures. But I would agree that it is a part of the culture in some church denominations, like the SBC.

As I've mentioned, the SBC makes up half a percent of the Church.

 

[linux.poet]

The "Curse of Ham" was something that was pretty widely preached, wasn't it?

It has some Biblical basis, but I would argue that it has been canceled by the blood of Christ, just like the Genesis 3 curse on women got canceled when Mary gave birth to Jesus. (The context of the latter curse was women throwing themselves at their husbands for centuries in hope of giving birth to the Savior of The World from sin.) Likewise, the male curse of toiling for bread has also been largely canceled by the advent of modern technology.

Even if the Curse of Ham was still in effect, Christians should not be adding to it. We are called to show mercy to those who are suffering, not dominate and control like Rehoboam.

The same with Manifest Destiny - which I would argue, at least in some regard, is still alive and well today.

The Manifest Destiny is just unbiblical fantasy forged into existence by violent imperialism. Nowhere does God speak to the North American continent in the Scriptures, which means that these continents aren’t included in God’s plan except as a place to house believers in Christ.

As I've mentioned, the SBC makes up half a percent of the Church.

I’m not sure that the SBC even teaches racism these days. Do they? I know that my non-denominational sector does not, and I thought we were a spin-off of the SBC branch tree. Likewise, I went to a Baptist church in my hometown for a Sunday, and while the teaching was NOT up to par for us non-denominational intellectuals, I don’t recall any racism being said.

(Also, I know this discussion is fascinating, but we need to get back on topic. I started a new thread: Does Christianity support and/or teach racism? and I suggest we move there before this thread is closed.)

 

[SimplyMe]

The Southern Baptist Church seems like a big deal in the American South, but it's not a "major sect."

The fact that the Southern Baptists were forced to separate themselves from American Baptists (which were opposed to slavery, and itself isn not a "major sect") is evidence that slavery is not a "Christian" doctrine any more than rejection of science is a "Christian" doctrine.

That's nice, though this seems a bit of a straw man since I never claimed the Southern Baptists were the only ones that had the racist beliefs. It is also worth pointing out the "Northern Baptists" were not necessarily free of racist thought, just that they opposed slavery as practiced in the Southern States. For example, there were a number of laws in the North requiring segregation, limiting the rights of Blacks to vote, etc; even while they were pushing for an end to slavery.

Even the "Great Emancipator" had racist views, which did seem to be fairly representative of the public at the time. For example, in response to something Douglas said during his debates with Lincoln for an Illinois paper, Lincoln stated, "I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

And this isn't even touching on the views of religious people in regards to the Native Americans. Yes, while many religions did seek to teach the Native Americans, their views were that the Native Americans were inferior, prone to violence and a their urges -- and had to be trained to a level of morality that can naturally to Whites.

The fact is that they tended to justify those beliefs with the Bible, just using different verses than you use today to claim the Bible does not support racism. These tended to be quite widespread in the North and the South, even among those who believed slavery was evil.

 

[eclipsenow]

The Southern Baptist Church seems like a big deal in the American South, but it's not a "major sect."

The fact that the Southern Baptists were forced to separate themselves from American Baptists (which were opposed to slavery, and itself isn not a "major sect") is evidence that slavery is not a "Christian" doctrine any more than rejection of science is a "Christian" doctrine.

Of course the bible itself - if read well and consistently through from beginning to end - shows a story of an unfolding blessing of God to the entire world including every race and culture and language.

However, I just read a short paper on this.

The British Empire used the 'Sons of Noah" heresy to justify racism and colonialism and "Christianizing" nations in the name of the Empire and of God. The heresy? A weird reading of a 4000 year old event that - if anything - predicted the eventual movement of Israel into the lands of the Canaanites. Remember how Noah drank himself into a stupor and was lying in his tent naked, and Ham (Canaan) walked in on him? There must be more to this event that I don't get - because I've always felt sorry for Ham. It reads like an honest mistake - but there must be more happening. Anyway, Noah curses Ham, and blesses his other sons who covered his nakedness.

"Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves shall he be to his brothers. (Genesis 9:24)... May God extend the territory of Japheth
… and may Canaan be his slave!"

But rather than see this as about Joshua later conquering Canaan - it's 'obviously' all about the plight of the modern black nations! According to European bible scholars of the colonial era, Ham became the black peoples of Africa and elsewhere, justifying racism, colonialism, prejudice, and an urgent need to 'Christianize' the nations. This went much further than just sharing the gospel with them and - if interested in the first place (!) - letting them work out what it meant to follow Christ in their own country, language, culture, and laws.

No, that would not do, what what! Instead the English barged in and colonizing everything they could. They also Anglicized them as part of the deal. To be Christian was to be British - and that was the end of the matter! The King James Bible, crisply ironed white collars, and hot tea. Because these were all practical in colonial Australia! (NOT!)

As Bishop Thomas Wilson wrote in 1740: "The negroes, the descendants of Ham and Canaan … according to one of the most
ancient of prophesies ... are to become … slaves of Christians." This applied to the Indians as well - apparently.

An essay towards an instruction for the Indians by Wilson, Thomas | Open Library

An essay towards an instruction for the Indians by Wilson, Thomas, 1740, J. Osborn, W. Thorn edition, Microform in English

openlibrary.org

In 1832 Thomas Newtown wrote: "The whole continent of Africa was peopled principally by the children of Ham … In what wickedness, ignorance, barbarity, slavery, misery, live most of the inhabitants! … How many hundreds every year are sold and bought like beasts in the market and are conveyed from one quarter of the world to do the work of beasts in another!

Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, which have remarkably been Fulfilled, and at this time are Fulfilling in the World (1825) : Thomas Newton (1704-1782) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Thomas Newton. Dissertations on the Prophecies, which have remarkably been Fulfilled, and at this time are Fulfilling in the World [Revised, by W.S. Dobson]. -...

archive.org

It's a prime example of what we call "Biblical Theology" or basically understanding that when you read the bible, you have to read it in context and all the way through to the end. We need to see how the New Testament authors understood the Old Testament - and what light the Old Testament throws on the new. It's about context.

Imagine if I asked what the story Cinderella was all about, and someone answered correctly "A sweet girl is treated as a slave by her older stepsisters, but has a major life transition as her magical Godmother transforms her, frees her from her family for an evening ball where she meets the Prince and they fall in love! - changing her life forever!"

But you hear some crank shouting "What on earth? She's stuck in the basement doing the laundry - it says so in chapter 1!"
Context is everything. Apparently those in power during the era of Colonialism preferred not to notice the way God's promise to Abraham was eventually to bless the whole world - and how Acts saw the gospel shooting out to all races and peoples and languages.

 

[eclipsenow]

The "Curse of Ham" was something that was pretty widely preached, wasn't it?
The same with Manifest Destiny - which I would argue, at least in some regard, is still alive and well today.

To be clear: I'm not arguing that racism is encouraged in the NT scriptures. But I would agree that it is a part of the culture in some church denominations, like the SBC.

It's REALLY strong in the Christian gun culture! Have you listened to the podcast "No Compromise" - which won the 2021 Pulitzer Prize for Audio Reporting? NPR investigates the truly radical side of America’s gun debate. They investigate the Dorr brothers—three gun rights activists who weaponised a social media conspiracy theory empire - and these guys are so far right they make the NRA look like socialists! They have funnelled donations into their Second Amendment extremism - but it goes so much further than just guns. Like NPR's best series, there's a twist. And it involves a home-school ideology that involves cult-like, tub-thumping, old world racism - weaponizing the bible to their ends.
If you want something sobering to listen to while going on a walk or doing the dishes - this is one amazing story!

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510356/no-compromise

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up. Mind the rules and stay civil.​

 

[MarkSB]

It has some Biblical basis, but I would argue that it has been canceled by the blood of Christ,

Just so I understand what you're saying here: Are you saying that the curse of Ham being applied to Africans has a biblical basis? The curse was against Canaan. I hope everyone can recognize that applying the curse of Ham to Africans was just a way to make slavery ok (whether it was applied after the fact or not).

(Also, I know this discussion is fascinating, but we need to get back on topic. I started a new thread: Does Christianity support and/or teach racism? and I suggest we move there before this thread is closed.)

Agreed, and my apologies to the OP for the thread derail. I will follow up in the other thread, if I am able to find the time.