Trump to use wartime Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport illegal migrants from ‘enemy nations’: sources

[RocksInMyHead]

TdA's political agenda is all about anarchy and then controlling communities.

That's not a political agenda. They are not anarchists (i.e. people who don't believe in hierarchical government; again, words have meanings) - they simply support the creation of conditions under which they can more easily do business. Anarchy benefits them, sure, but that's just because the US governmental system isn't corrupt enough for them to easily exploit it.

 

[Merrill]

Terrorism is the commission of criminally violent acts in order to advance a political agenda. They meet the first half of the definition, but not the second, as they have no political goals or interests.

Terrorism is not just "scary violence" - as I said, words have meanings.

The group has been designated a terrorist organization by the US government

some of the criteria used of this was

1. On 11 April 2024, Chilean authorities implicated Tren de Aragua in the murder of Ronald Ojeda, a Venezuelan political dissident and opponent to Nicolás Maduro who had been living in exile in Chile

(they have killed opponents of Maduro on several occasions --that is political)

2. In 2023, they released a manifesto in Peru saying they would exterminate Peruvian motor taxi drivers

3. Many of the members are wanted by Interpol for transnational crimes

you can disagree with the terrorist designation, but your opinion is completely irrelevant in regards to this, and the court system is instructed to consider these individuals terrorists

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The group has been designated a terrorist organization by the US government

I'm well aware.

some of the criteria used of this was

1. On 11 April 2024, Chilean authorities implicated Tren de Aragua in the murder of Ronald Ojeda, a Venezuelan political dissident and opponent to Nicolás Maduro who had been living in exile in Chile

(they have killed opponents of Maduro on several occasions --that is political)

Not really, as indications are that any association with Maduro is simply transactional (i.e. they were hired). Terrorists have their own ideology. If someone goes out and hires a hitman to kill a politician (for political reasons, not for anything mundane like sleeping with the wrong person), the person doing the hiring is the terrorist, not the hitman. Words, as they say, have meanings.

2. In 2023, they released a manifesto in Peru saying they would exterminate Peruvian motor taxi drivers

I suspect that this was about them wanting to control the racket, not anything political (given that taxi drivers are not a political group).

3. Many of the members are wanted by Interpol for transnational crimes

Committing crimes in other countries does not make you a terrorist.

you can disagree with the terrorist designation, but your opinion is completely irrelevant in regards to this,

My opinion is relevant when addressing the false outrage in this thread. The government calling them terrorists does not mean that they are actually engaging in terroristic acts - therefore the "[really, they're censoring the abbreviation for "Oh my God"?], they want to stop the deportation of TERRORISTS!" schtick is pretty laughable.

and the court system is instructed to consider these individuals terrorists

First, of course, the government must demonstrate that they are terrorists (or members of a terrorist group).

 

[Yarddog]

Guess it is time to amend the law then. That is still the process, yes? If we need to cover new circumstances we create a law to spell out the limits of how we deal with it?

There's no need to amend anything. They just need to follow what is already there. Take them in front of the judge.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Take them in front of the judge.

Unfortunately, in the action following Trump's announcement in the OP, the Administration has decided to skip that step.

 

[Yarddog]

Unfortunately, in the action following Trump's announcement in the OP, the Administration has decided to skip that step.

And the courts will rein him in. Trump is violating federal law, imagine that. LOL

 

[Perpetual Student]

And the courts will rein him in. Trump is violating federal law, imagine that. LOL

Multiple MAGA sympathizers are angry about that. Even some forum members here have voiced their disagreement.
Apparently, reining in the Trump administration is for reason impeachment and death threats (though not from forum members).

 

[Merrill]

I'm well aware.

Not really, as indications are that any association with Maduro is simply transactional (i.e. they were hired). Terrorists have their own ideology. If someone goes out and hires a hitman to kill a politician (for political reasons, not for anything mundane like sleeping with the wrong person), the person doing the hiring is the terrorist, not the hitman. Words, as they say, have meanings.

I suspect that this was about them wanting to control the racket, not anything political (given that taxi drivers are not a political group).

Committing crimes in other countries does not make you a terrorist.

My opinion is relevant when addressing the false outrage in this thread. The government calling them terrorists does not mean that they are actually engaging in terroristic acts - therefore the "[really, they're censoring the abbreviation for "Oh my God"?], they want to stop the deportation of TERRORISTS!" schtick is pretty laughable.

First, of course, the government must demonstrate that they are terrorists (or members of a terrorist group).

you really think a district judge gets to decide who is a terorrist?

quite certain that isn't how it works

like I said, you can disagree with the designation, but it doesn't change the fact that this gang has been designated a terrorist group and will be treated as such

are you going to say some district judge in California can announce to the world that ISIS isn't a terrorist organization?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

you really think a district judge gets to decide who is a terorrist?

It doesn't have to be a district judge, specifically, but it does need to be adjudicated in some way. The government can't grab someone off the street, unilaterally declare them a terrorist, and have them disappeared off to El Salvador.

like I said, you can disagree with the designation, but it doesn't change the fact that this gang has been designated a terrorist group and will be treated as such

I'm not disputing that. The issue is with the individuals. The government must show that they are members of this gang before they can be treated as terrorists - we can't just take their word for it. That's how our legal system works.

 

[Merrill]

It doesn't have to be a district judge, specifically, but it does need to be adjudicated in some way. The government can't grab someone off the street, unilaterally declare them a terrorist, and have them disappeared off to El Salvador.

I'm not disputing that. The issue is with the individuals. The government must show that they are members of this gang before they can be treated as terrorists - we can't just take their word for it. That's how our legal system works.

SCOTUS can make a determination in regards to all of this. District judges do not have any kind of final say, and very little authority in this matter

the issue is going to not only surround the scope and limitations of the Alien Enemies Act, but whether or not these guys are entitled to due process under prior court decisions.

Even conservatives are divided on this matter. In any event, something needs to be done about these guys and other armed, international criminal groups coming into the country. The American public isn't going to stand for gun battles in the streets, apartment blocks getting taken over, assassinations, and general anarchy while illegal alien gang members hide behind lawyers on the taxpayer dime.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

SCOTUS can make a determination in regards to all of this. District judges do not have any kind of final say, and very little authority in this matter

SCOTUS can, but only if the appeal process is exercised and they choose to review it. District judges absolutely have the level of say and authority that has been exercised thus far.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Venezuela minister says no Tren de Aragua members among US deportees​

 

[Merrill]

Venezuela minister says no Tren de Aragua members among US deportees​

One of Maduro's guys says Tren de Aragua isn't involved

like anyone believes this

 

[RocksInMyHead]

One of Maduro's guys says Tren de Aragua isn't involved

like anyone believes this

I am as skeptical of this claim as I am of the Trump administration's claim that all of them are part of Tren de Aragua (or other similar gangs).

 

[Belk]

One of Maduro's guys says Tren de Aragua isn't involved

like anyone believes this

 

[Merrill]

I am as skeptical of this claim as I am of the Trump administration's claim that all of them are part of Tren de Aragua (or other similar gangs).

maybe you can prove to everyone here that none of the guys deported were members of the gang

 

[Belk]

maybe you can prove to everyone here that none of the guys deported were members of the gang

Yeah, who needs that whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" anyways?

 

[Merrill]

Yeah, who needs that whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" anyways?

But they weren't innocent

they were already in violation of immigration law, and some were in violation of other laws

the left wants to paint these people as innocent undocumented cleaning ladies

I even heard a MSM reported call them "migrants"

they aren't migrants: they travel back and forth to Venezuela and Mexico, and are part of an international criminal group.

 

[Vambram]

Yeah, who needs that whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" anyways?

You really want to go through the trial and jury process for illegal immigrants?

 

[essentialsaltes]

You really want to go through the trial and jury process for illegal immigrants?

Immigration judges have judicial proceedings without juries.